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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Monaghan => Topic started by: rpepper on Saturday 14 January 17 05:17 GMT (UK)
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My great-great grandmother died giving birth to twins. She was married to Daniel Goodwin and she gave birth to Bertha Goodwin (my great grandmother). Bertha's mom and twin died during the delivery. About a year later Daniel Goodwin (my great-great grandfather) remarried. He married Anna Lamb in Monaghan. He emmigrated to Upstate New York Daniel and died in the Utica, NY area.
I am looking for where in Monaghan they lived.
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
I'm struggling to find the family anywhere in Ireland with the information given- no marriages for Daniel, absolutely no Bertha Goodwin, no matching marriage with bride as Anna Lamb, etc.
Is this the family in 1880?
Daniel Goodwin Self 50 Ireland
Ann Goodwin Wife 40 Ireland
James Goodwin Son 19 Ireland
Mary Goodwin Daughter 16 Ireland
Bessy Goodwin Daughter 14 Ireland
Hugh Goodwin Son 12 New York
Daniel Goodwin Son 10 New York
Patrick Goodwin Son 8 New York
Nelly Goodwin Daughter 6 New York
John Goodwin Son 2 New York
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZX6-6HX
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Same family in 1900- daughter still shown as Bessie/Bessy but born May 1871 N.Y.-
Anna Goodwin Head 58 Ireland (to US 1868)
James A Goodwin Son 36 Ireland
Bessie V Goodwin Daughter 29 New York
Daniel P Goodwin Son 28 New York
Nellia A Goodwin Daughter 22 New York
John J Goodwin Son 21 New York
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MS2G-ZGQ
Some of the children in 1910- Bessie keeps getting younger!
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M549-F3L
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Hello and welcome from me too :)
Here is Elizabeth - 17 April 1866 parents Daniel and Anna Lamb
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/106/mode/1up
Heywood
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Bridget Goodwin - mother Rose Keenan (dead?) 6 January 1861
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/43/mode/1up
Both records show the family are living Corlea, Magheross, Monaghan
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see next post
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Oops, computer 'hung' and now cross posted with heywood.
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There was a Philip Goodwin in Coraghy, Magheross, at time of Griffiths Valuation. Possibility for Daniel's father or sibling or other relative, perhaps.
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Hi scotmum,
There is a notation by Rose - mortici ??? which I assume means she had died and then a further note in the last column re the baptism 'sub conditione .....' I can't read the rest.
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Mmm,
Sub conditione is used in the case of foundlings or converts where the priest cannot be sure that a baptism hasn't already taken place.
as per article at http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic6707.html.
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A conditional baptism takes place, as you have found, when a baptism may have already occurred.
Bridget was born 5th January, according to the register and baptised 6th January.
If the circumstances are that mother died in childbirth and if there was another twin as rpepper says, then Bridget may have been baptised by someone soon after her birth in the home.
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Here are a couple of links to help rpepper understand where Corlea was:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/MOG/Magheross
and
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/gazplace?leCCC=MOG,LAT=53.98567,LON=-6.802425,PLACE=CORLEA,ID=122734
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Bessy Goodwin (14 in 1880 census) does look to be Anna's daughter going by the baptism (not sure why poster has her as Bertha as she seems to be Bessie, etc. in census records).
Same register- Francis Goodwin, son of Philip, bapt. 1865
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/91/mode/1up
Rosa Goodman, daughter of Michael, bapt.1864
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/87/mode/1up
Maria Goodman, daughter of Eugene, & Catherine, daughter of Patrick Goodman, bapt. 1864
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/81/mode/1up
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Could Bertha be Bridget, daughter of Daniel and Rosa?
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZDL-6MR
Here is a Bridget Goodwin but she is in the city - quite a distance from Daniel and family. :-\
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZDL-6MR
Here is a Bridget Goodwin but she is in the city - quite a distance from Daniel and family. :-\
But then, given she is a servant, it is still, I would think, quite possible. Also possible is a Bridget Goodwin born c1860, who is in Utica, NY at 1880 - rpepper mentioned that Daniel died in Utica.
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This is a more suitable Bridget. She is in Utica - a patient in hospital suffering from 'burns'.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZXF-1VN
Scotmum,
I didn't see that you also had found her :)
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There's a Bridget Goodwin, age 14, in 1875 census with uncle James age 40 and his wife Ann (age 24)- this is supposed to be the page but I don't see them ???
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VT8V-LVG
James Goodwin & wife in 1880-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZXD-CS9
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There's a Bridget Goodwin, age 14, in 1875 census with uncle James age 40 and his wife Ann (age 24)- this is supposed to be the page but I don't see them ???
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VT8V-LVG
They are on page 7 rather than page 8 in the 1875.
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Utica Herald-Dispatch, 27 July 1906 (obituary with photo) James A. Goodwin died 26 July "born in County Monaghan, Ireland, 35 years ago, and was the eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. Daniel Goodwin. When an infant he was brought to America by his parents. The family settled at Forrestport, going from there to New York Mills 18 years ago." "survived by his mother, Mrs. Daniel Goodwin; four sisters, Mrs. Timothy O'Brien and Mrs. Mary McGuinness of Utica and Bessie and Nellie Goodwin of New York Mills, and three brothers Hugh and Daniel of New York Mills and John of Illon.
fultonhistory.com
Utica Sunday Journal, 31 Dec.1899 Mary Garvey, widow of Owen Garvey "born in County Monaghan, Ireland, and came to this country 45 years ago." 3 sons, 2 daughters, "one sister Mrs. Julia McDonald of New York,a nd one brother, Daniel Goodwin of New York Mills."
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That looks very promising.
Whilst searching, I noticed that there is a published tree which may be rpepper's.
That would support that Bessie is not Bertha as both ladies are in 1900 census.
Bertha is in 1900 after her marriage to Timothy O'Brien.
The difficulty is that Bertha gives year of immigration as 1889.
Her age is also different to that of Bridget. However according to the tree the date of birth is v similar just she is a few years younger.
I think it highly likely that Bridget changed her name and fibbed about her age perhaps as Timothy was younger.
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Have just added death of Mary (Goodwin) Garvey to the above post.
Utica Daily Press, ? April 1910 "Anna Lamb, widow of Daniel Goodwin" born 1841 Co. Monaghan... lots of family details including mention of sister Katherine Lamb.
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THANK YOU
Aghadowney - yes same family and I have different ages and they seem to be all over the place but those census records are that way sometimes
THANK YOU
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Hello again rpepper,
So what do you think? Is your Bertha the Bridget whose baptism we found with her mother as Rose and as a consequence you have their origins in Monaghan?
You have only confirmed the censuses. It would be good to know.
Regards
Heywood
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Yes, I'd also be interested to know if 'Bertha' (a most unlikely name for an Catholic girl born in Monaghan at that time) was really Bridget.
There is lots more information to be found in the newspapers on the Fulton newspaper site-
http://fultonhistory.com/
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Me three, said she following on like a sheep ;D, I'd be interested to know too.
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Utica Daily Press, 31 Jan.1950- obituary for Timothy L. O'Brien (age 82) "Oct. 28, 1891, he married Bertha Goodwin in St. Francis de Sales Church, Mrs. O'Brien died Jan. 12, 1945. 1 sons, 1 daughter, etc.
Her obituary- "Bertha L. Goodwin was born in Forestport, Jan, 6, 1866, daughter of the late Daniel and Ann Lamb Goodwin and married in 1891"
Bridget Goodwin - mother Rose Keenan (dead?) 6 January 1861
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/43/mode/1up
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1940 census has Bertha O'Brien born c1867 New York
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQ5Q-VKX
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89MB-79G3?mode=g&i=11&cc=2000219
1920 census she's Bertha A. born c1866 New York
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MVMT-BXP
1910 census born c1869 New York- four children
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M59W-NF8
1900 census born May 1866 Ireland, to U.S. 1889!
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MS2V-J1R
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I still believe it highly probable that Bridget and Bertha were one and the same. Assuming she was told (given that rpepper knew there had been a death in childbirth of the mother and the death of a twin sibling), perhaps she felt some 'stigma' regarding the fact her 'mother' was not Ann Lamb, but rather Ann was her step-mother. To help make things seem more 'normal' and save questions, she decided to refer to herself as their natural daughter, and 'change' her place and year of birth to help the 'story' along, but did confide in some of her family the true situation. After all, many did not pay too much attention to 'birthdays' in that timescale, and so it would have been easy to add or take away a few years here and there.
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I think Bridget and Bertha are the same person also. To all extents and purposes Ann Lamb was her mother and the O'Briens (Bertha's husband and children) would have considered Ann her mother.
In 1900 says she was born Ireland (but year of arrival is way off) but later records give her as born New York so it's not surprising that her obituary says born New York.
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Yes, as I wrote in reply #20 it seems most likely that Bridget and Bertha are the same person, including her birthday which is her baptism date.
Aghadowey has comprehensively covered the family in censuses and obituaries and in the absence of Bertha pre-marriage, there is no other female family member who could be her.
I was just a bit surprised that rpepper didn't comment on these findings.
Regards
Heywood
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Thanks to All! Yes, I think Brigid and Bertha are one and the same. She started using Bertha in the US most likely. I think my great-great grandmother died giving birth around age 16. Bertha's twin died as well. I found a record of a Rosa Keenan baptized 21 Sep 1845 in Tydavnet, residence: Feebagh, father Andreas Keenan and mother Rosa Brady. How do I verify this?
That probably WAS my great-grandmother that was in the hospital in Utica for burns. I imagine Elizabeth and Bessie are the same person as well. Also, I wonder if Brigid moved in with her aunt and uncle at age 14 or so- the location makes sense.
Scotmum - How can I check to see if Philip Goodwin of Craghy, Magheross is related to my great-great grandfather, Daniel Goodwin?
Interestingly enough, I will be in Dublin on business in about 10 days and am trying to drive up to Carrickmacross. I wonder if there will be any records there!
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There are unlikely to be any records on the family held locally and I suspect that Dublin or Belfast is where you'd find any archived material.
Going by what I found in the N.Y. newspapers it seems as though not just Daniel Goodwin (& family) moved there but many of the wider family circle. Luckily the obituaries were quite good at giving details of connections (and online) so searching through the newspapers you should be able to add to your family tree before going through the church registers (luickily also online and free).
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My great-great grandmother died giving birth to twins. She was married to Daniel Goodwin and she gave birth to Bertha Goodwin (my great grandmother). Bertha's mom and twin died during the delivery. About a year later Daniel Goodwin (my great-great grandfather) remarried. He married Anna Lamb in Monaghan.
Suppose I should have asked earlier, but do you mind sharing your source for this info, especially the part about the death whilst giving birth and the death of a twin. Was it information that was passed down through the family (an old family bible, perhaps, or word of mouth from 'Bertha' to her children). as obviously, given the finds in this thread, it appears to be very accurate?
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:) :)
I was going to post that the records for Maghaire Rois parish at the time of a possible marriage are very feint - which they are. However, I have just had a scroll through and lo and behold- there is the marriage :) It will need some deciphering but I have tried to show what I see. It is number 93.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632802#page/11/mode/1up
16th February ??? 1860
Daniel Goodwin Corlea parents H.. and Brigid? F..gan? - maybe
Rosa Kainen? Drum... Parents Patrick and Rosa Manion ???
Witnesses Bernard Mac... Corlea
Anna Ma... Conduff Mountain
Please will you check and see what you think.
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Possibly Drumgowna or Drumgurra for Rose?
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Is Daniel's mother Brigida Finnigan?
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That is probably it, Aghadowey.
I think also the places are Drumgurra and Conduff ( witness Anna - possibly Marron as showing in Griffiths Valuation)
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One to consider - number 1278
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/83/mode/1up
12th June 1864
Maria McGrogan/McGrugan ??? Parents Daniel McGrogan and Anna Lamb - residence Corlea
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Could 'Goodwin' be an Anglicised version of McGrogan?
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Could 'Goodwin' be an Anglicised version of McGrogan?
I just noticed the baptism index has been transcribed as McGugan which would make more sense without the 'r' for anglicisation.
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Could 'Goodwin' be an Anglicised version of McGrogan?
An old ancestry board posts notes:
Goodwin AKA McGuigan
Posted: 31 Oct 2012 8:33PM GMT
My gg grandfather Peter Goodwin (b. ca. 1815) married Mary McNally and emigrated from Monaghan to New York in the 1860s. My mother claims that they were previouly McGuigans. Thanks, Diane G.
so it would seem others in Monaghan with similar surnames to
McGrogan, ie in this instance, McGuigan, did also use Goodwin.
also
Goodwin from County Monaghan
Posted: 23 Oct 2005 9:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Goodwin/McGuigan
I've always been told that my gg gandfather, Oliver Montgomery Goodwin was born in County Monoghan in 1837. I am interested in finding out what part of the county the Goodwin family was from. Or if there are any still left in the county now. At one point my family name may or may not have been been McGuigan, due to a mixup.
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I must go out now!
There is a baptism for Rosa McGuigan 24 May 1865 Parents Peter and Margaret - abode Corlea and godmother is Anna Lamb.
Even with a married woman, maiden name seems to be used in registers.
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and see
http://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/monaghan/tedavnet/message-board/mcguigangoodwin-tedavnet
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Tedavnet/Tydavnet isn't a neighbouring parish to Maghaire Rois so I do have reservations about the other Goodwins but it does help with the translation and interchange of the name.
All the relevant ones to here show townland as Corlea.
Here is James' baptism, so I think we have all the children's baptisms now?
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632801#page/60/mode/1up
Number 902
He is born 19th June 1862 so that should give a period of time for Daniel's marriage to Anna Lamb.
It looks as though there may have been some problem with James at birth as there are annotations re his baptism.