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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: pimpernel on Saturday 14 January 17 15:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm once more trying to break down some brick walls researching my Griffin/Wood line in the Leigh-with-Bransford / Worcester area.
William Wood and wife Ann had 3 traced children, I believe the eldest of which, Harriet, died almost immediately after baptism (16th December 1816) in Alfrick, just to the north of Malvern, and was buried on 28th Dec. I found a baptism for their 2nd daughter Rebecca in Malvern 31 May 1818 (LDS entry, I've not seen the actual document) and another of 29 Sept 1822 in Leigh With Bransford for their son Robert.
Initially I thought William Wood married Anne Stephens in 1807 in Worcester as it was the only marriage record that seemed to match, I've not found any matching marriages in Malvern or the surrounding districts. However in that case why the 9 year gap before children? Then, after the LDS re-vamp I found a perfect matching entry in the LDS and FindMyPast records:
Wm. Wood marriage to Ann Moulton, 09 Feb 1816, marriage place: (blank) residence: Worcester, Worcestershire.
This seems much closer a match to the children born 1816-1822.. however.... not so fast!
I just found an entry of marriage Banns on Ancestry:
Name: Ann Molton
Event Type: Bann
Marriage or Bann Date: 4 Feb 1816
Marriage or Bann Place: Warwick, St Mary, Warwickshire, England
Husband William Wood, "of this parish"
4th February 1816? Hang on a minute, surely this is exactly the same as the supposed 9th Feb Worcester marriage above? But there's no mention of Worcester at all in the Banns. So what's happening here? Did they issue Banns in Warwick then marry in Worcester? Or is it a transcriber mix-up?
I can see the Banns record on Ancestry (attached below), but I've only seen a transcription of the 1816 marriage entry on FindMyPast and LDS (I think it's referenced on Ancestry too, but my subs won't allow viewing) - does anyone have a full subscription who can look up and confirm? If indeed it's a mis-reading by FindMyPast/LDS I'm back to the drawing board researching William and Ann's marriage, as far as I know my family has no connection to Warwick.
Many thanks!
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Just realised Find My Past has almost identical entries for Wm. Wood | Ann Moulton marriages on 9th February both in Warwick ( http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=r_855224687%2f2 ) and in Worcester ( http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=r_849797352%2f2 )
Same names, same day, different counties. It looks suspicious, should I assume the Worcester entry is a mistake?
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I've had a look at the Warwick St Mary images on Anc* the Banns record is there for the fourth of Feb. The actual marriage register for their marriage is a bit strange. The couple have signed the register along with witnesses: Jn Chamberlain ( church official) and Joseph Robbins.
The minister hasn't filled in the rest or signed it - I'm presuming they married in Worcester.
Someone with better knowledge may be able to help further.
Claire
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This is the image from Family Search of the marriage entry - as ..claire.. states, the body of the entry has not been completed, but both parties signed.
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Hi,
Is this William and Ann in 1841?
1841 HO107/1205/2 f.56 p.1 Leigh, Worcestershire
William WOOD 56 Ind N
Ann " 55 N
If so, then they both have an N for "not born in county" so maybe they came from Warwickshire, or at least married there :-\
Regards,
Daisy
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The LDS entry that says Worcester is from Film No 350533, which is the Bishops Transcript for the Diocese of Worcester http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ja0/ and more specifically Warwick Deanery http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ja1/
However, the images are from film 559247, which is the Parish Register for Warwick, St Mary http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ja2/
Warwick used to come under the Worcester diocese, which presumably is the source of the confusion, although in fairness LDS have not actually claimed that the County was Worcester, they have simply claimed it as the 'marriage place' without inserting the word "diocese". Simples!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ja3/ (page 46)
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Many thanks everyone!
Hmm, this is all rather curious... blank entries, incomplete records, it seems to be the bane of my Worcestershire family research! So Jomot, the indication then is that they were married in Warwick rather than Worcester, which would suggest they are not my family members. And yet... the only census I found matching William and Ann is the 1841 entry mentioned by Daisypetal, and that does indicate they were not born in county, so maybe they were from Warwick after all!
My evidence for William and Ann comes from daughter Rebecca's 1845 marriage certificate (indicating William as father, a miller). The most likely matching baptism record for Rebecca (on the LDS - in Malvern 31st May 1818) mentions William and Ann as parents, through that I found probable births with the same parents for sister Harriet (16th Dec 1816 in Alfrick and Lulsley), and brother Robert (29th Sept 1822, Leigh With Bransford). There could of course be more undiscovered children.
As each of these children's baptism is in a slightly different, but adjacent hamlets between Malvern and Worcester, perhaps there was some movement of William and Ann in the are around the time of the children's births. Or am I simply reading different families as the same? So hard to be sure!
Should I pay any attention to the Warwick Banns and (supposed) Worcester entry for marriage? The evidence connecting these to my William and Ann seems so flimsy and hard to decipher now!
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As you mention that the William you are looking for was a miller I wonder if this could relate to him?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7029081
I haven't found a William WOOD marriage to Ann PRESSDEE yet.
Daisy
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That's interesting, another William Wood=Ann marriage! Though I've not found any record of this in parish records or BMD's. It's very promising though, as the largely indecipherable names of two witnesses to daughter Rebecca's marriage to Thomas Griffin in 1845 could just be Pressdee!
I've come up against brick walls for both the Wood and Griffin lines of my research in the area, it seems there are so many gaps in the Worcestershire records - marriages without corresponding birth records, census listings with no birth records.
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Moreover... if the witnesses are indeed John and Eliza Pressdee, the 1851 census shows a John Presdee born in Affrick, Warwickshire (!), living on New Street Corn Market, Worcester, a Flour Dealer, which would tie in very nicely with William Wood's trade as miller. And he has a 34 year old daughter Eliza. These seem like too many coincidences not to be the same as the witnesses in Rebecca's marriage.
So.... this would suggest perhaps William Wood's marriage was indeed the one refered to in 1811 to Ann Pressdee. Why then, is it not listed anywhere except the Nat. Archives link posted by Daisypetal?
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Also Ann Pressdee baptised 01 May 1780 at Alfrick And Lulsley, daughter of John & Mary
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Ah yes! and there's a 1779 baptism for John Pressdee with the same parents, making him Ann's brother... which suggests the witnesses to Rebecca's wedding were her uncle and cousin on her mother's side. Still looking for that elusive marriage between William Wood and Ann Pressdee though, which would nail it.
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Hereford Journal 01 May 1811
Married - at Suckley, Mr Wood, Miller, near Bromyard, to Miss Presdee, only daughter of Mr John Presdee of Millam, Worcester.
Added: Worcester Journal 25 April 1811 has the date as "yesterday"
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Interesting thread & great find Jomot.
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Oh this is great, thank you Jomot!
I think this marriage is firmly nailed down then :)
I just re-checked the LDS records for Rebecca Wood's birth, and now see very different results from the old IGI! Her 31st May 1818 christening is now stated as Worcester, not Malvern as was listed in the old IGI. ( "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVMJ-QGM : 30 December 2014), Rebecca Wood, 31 May 1818; citing Worcester, England, reference p 4; FHL microfilm 350,531.)
There are a couple of other possible Worcester christenings to the same parents which were not in the old IGI list, John (18th Dec 1815 in Alfrick) and Benjamin (18th Oct 1818 in Worcester). I found some of the records in the old LDS records quite unreliable in the past, is it any more reliable now?
Many thanks to everyone for all your help on this, I finally see some movement on what has been the thickest of brick walls!
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Great find by Daisypetal :D
I think you need to be a little careful on any of the entries for Worcester as everything taken from the Worcester Diocese seem to be lumped together as the same place description, even though the film number gives additional detail.
350531 is Powick Deanery & 350493 (Benjamin) is Kidderminster Deanery
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/651296?availability=Family%20History%20Library
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Oh I see, thank you Jomot! I didn't realise the catalogue numbers would help to narrow the locations.... ah, still learning!
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Seeing how difficult it was for people to move from region to region (I'm reminded of removal orders on some of my other ancestors in Worcestershire/Gloucestershire), how likely would it be for a tradesman miller to move around and have some children christened in Alfrick, others in Worcester (Powick deanery)? The Pressdee family clearly were from Alfrick, but in the early 19thC at least traded in Worcester. William Wood seems to have come from neighbouring Suckley or Leigh-with-Bransford, but also traded in Worcester. On LDS I've found possible baptisms for children: William 16 May 1813, John 18 Dec 1815 and Harriet 16 Dec 1816, all in Alfrick and Lulsley, Then Rebecca in Worcester (Powick Deanery) in 1818. Censuses and marriage for my Rebecca seem consistently to point to a birth of 1818, and the 350531 film is the only one that seems to match, so I'm guessing the family were originally in Alfrick, but moved to Worcester between 1816 and 1818.... does the Powick Deanery encompass a part of Worcester? There's another possible christening for a Robert Wood with the same parents on 29th Sept 1822 in Leigh with Bransford, which, if the same family, suggests back and forth movement between Worcester and the villages to the West.
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Even by olden standards, Alfrick is close to Worcester (7 miles), Powick is only 3 miles from Worcester and Bransford is 4 miles away. Suckley is the furthest from Worcester at 10 miles. People used to walk miles to work every day :)
This is the entry for Suckley, taken from Genuki
SUCKLEY, a parish in the upper division of Doddingtree hundred, county Worcester, 10 miles W. of Worcester, its post town, 7 S.W. of Martley, and 5 S.E. of Bromyard. The village is on Cradley Brook. The parish contains the hamlets of Alfrick and Lulsey, each of which has a chapel-of-ease. The land is partly in hop-grounds. The living is a rectory* [the asterisk denotes that there is a parsonage and glebe belonging to the living] with the curacies of Alfrick and Lulsley annexed, in the diocese of Worcester, value £634, in the patronage of the crown. The church, dedicated to St. John the Baptist, has some oak seats of great antiquity, also several old monuments. The Wesleyans have a chapel. The parochial charities produce about £84 per annum, of which £11 go to Palmer's free school. Earl Somers is lord of the manor."
[Description(s) from The National Gazetteer of Great Britain and Ireland (1868) Transcribed by Colin Hinson ©2003]