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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: bugbear on Tuesday 17 January 17 11:50 GMT (UK)
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I have, via NROCAT, found some wills that I believe to be helpful to my research.
http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk
They are all on microfilm, e.g.
CatalogueRef ANF will register 1783-1786 fo. 114 (1783 no. 111)
Title Ringer, William Beverley, of Forncett
Date 1783
Description Will.
Level Item
Repository Norfolk Record Office
Category probate
Access Status Open
Access Conditions Not to be produced to the searchroom.
Finding Aids Typescript index: ANW and ANF wills and admons 1752-1818
Copies Use microfilm MF 233.
CatalogueStatus Catalogued
For my DB I try to ALWAYS acquire a digital copy of all records; I photograph or scan physical records, and (always) download online records, either as images, or cut 'n' paste text.
My DB is thus (in a sense) complete and stand alone.
So - It look like I'm going to be trying to photograph the screen of a microfilm reader, which I hope is technically not beyond me. But I've never used a microfilm machine.
Can anyone with familiarity with the NRO advice me on the logistics of this:
* would there be room at (one of) the machine to set up a tripod ?
* what make/model/style of reader(s) do they have
* are these films these flat X/Y type or the roll type?
(any other way than a digital camera of getting a digital copy?)
BugBear
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I'm not familiar with microfilm so I can't offer much advice. But I do remember from a visit to NRO a couple of years ago that the area with the microfilm readers was quite spacious, so it shouldn't be too difficult to set up a tripod. Also, I remember the staff there being very helpful, so I'm sure if you phone them and ask for advice, they'll be able to help. :)
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Not sure if this helps but when I used to visit the LMA (some years ago) there was a machine that printed paper copies from microfilm. If there is something similar at Norwich perhaps you could print and then photograph......or is that too time consuming? :-\
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To photograph, you will have to pay for a Licence - ranging from £4.00 for half an hour, via £10.50 for a day licence, to £70.00 for a month.
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Not sure if this helps but when I used to visit the LMA (some years ago) there was a machine that printed paper copies from microfilm. If there is something similar at Norwich perhaps you could print and then photograph......or is that too time consuming? :-\
Most RO's have truly HORRIBLE charges for printing or scanning. £1 a sheet is common :'(
BugBear
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To photograph, you will have to pay for a Licence - ranging from £4.00 for half an hour, via £10.50 for a day licence, to £70.00 for a month.
Yes - I'm fine with that (free would be better). I have enough records to gather that the per-image cost will be quite low.
BugBear
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Most RO's have truly HORRIBLE charges for printing or scanning. £1 a sheet is common :'(
BugBear
:o :o :o I did say it was some years ago......think is was around 40p when I last visited.
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The Fees pdf here - http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC098487 - does say you can take photographs of microfilms/fiche in the search room with a permit but somehow I doubt you would be allowed to use a tripod, from experience most insist on handheld photography only.
NRO charge £1.80 per sheet for microfilm prints. I suspect because its not used so much these days because of digital cameras and they have to pay for the upkeep of the equipment. That level is becoming more common unfortunately from experience.
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My local records office (Manx Museum Library) has computerised microfiche/microfilm readers that allow me to take a copy/scan and drop it to a USB stick.
If you're lucky, Norwich might use the same? ;D
They also allow me to photograph documents, with my mobile phone, at no charge. No flash!
Have never seen anyone using a tripod, but I'm sure the same would apply.
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The Fees pdf here - http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC098487 - does say you can take photographs of microfilms/fiche in the search room with a permit but somehow I doubt you would be allowed to use a tripod, from experience most insist on handheld photography only.
NRO are fine with tripods; their "rule" (in practise) is "don''t get in other people's way"
I wanted to photograph a 10' x 6' map they hold, to 300 DPI quality. They don't actually have a table that big!! I used a cantilever tripod (Benbo) with an added counterweight to get my camera over the desk, and took around 45 overlapping images of each quarter, which I later pieced together digitally. Moving/rearranging the map to bring each quadrant into range of my camera was done with the active and friendly assistance of the staff, and the whole capture process took me around 2 1/2 hours.
I attach a photograph of a trial/mockup of my approach.
NRO charge £1.80 per sheet for microfilm prints. I suspect because its not used so much these days because of digital cameras and they have to pay for the upkeep of the equipment. That level is becoming more common unfortunately from experience.
Ouch.
BugBear
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NRO are fine with tripods; their "rule" (in practise) is "don''t get in other people's way"
Interesting as I know some ROs won't allow it from past experience. That said, if you can use a tripod you are probably going to spend less time photographing (in theory, although in practice just manage to get more items photographed in a day ;)) than if having to photograph handheld and having to check and retake if you wobble. ;D
Edit - don't know if you've any Wills from NRO but the condition of many isn't good, particularly early ones, so they don't microfilm very well. Unfortunately found that quite a lot particularly with Consistory Court Wills, although the Archdeaconry Court ones have not been so bad.
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NRO are fine with tripods; their "rule" (in practise) is "don''t get in other people's way"
Interesting as I know some ROs won't allow it from past experience. That said, if you can use a tripod you are probably going to spend less time photographing (in theory, although in practice just manage to get more items photographed in a day ;)) than if having to photograph handheld and having to check and retake if you wobble. ;D
Edit - don't know if you've any Wills from NRO but the condition of many isn't good, particularly early ones, so they don't microfilm very well. Unfortunately found that quite a lot particularly with Consistory Court Wills, although the Archdeaconry Court ones have not been so bad.
The ones on "norfolksources" are OK - are they different?
e.g. (huge link, sorry)
http://www.norfolksources.norfolk.gov.uk/DserveNS/dserve.exe?dsqServer=NCC3CL01&dsqIni=dserveProbate.ini&dsqApp=ArchiveNS&dsqCmd=ImageView.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqImage=Probate\Wills\GS_0167184\02407.jpg
BugBear
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* what make/model/style of reader(s) do they have
I have used the readers at The Forum and they use the Solar 2000 (http://adem.co.uk/node/834), last time I was at the NRO they were using the same.
I have taken a photo using a hand held iPad and the results were ok.
* are these films these flat X/Y type or the roll type?
Roll type film, where it says ' Use microfilm MF 233', you will probably find that the Wills are now on MF GS#xxxxxxxxx.
yokel
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* what make/model/style of reader(s) do they have
I have used the readers at The Forum and they use the Solar 2000 (http://adem.co.uk/node/834), last time I was at the NRO they were using the same.
I have taken a photo using a hand held iPad and the results were ok.
Excellent news!
* are these films these flat X/Y type or the roll type?
Roll type film, where it says ' Use microfilm MF 233', you will probably find that the Wills are now on MF GS#xxxxxxxxx.
I'm sorry; I don't understand what "now on MF GS#xxxxxxxxx" means, which I'm guessing is down to my ignorance.
BugBear
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I'm sorry; I don't understand what "now on MF GS#xxxxxxxxx" means
Sorry should have explained that.
I think that the old microfilms for Wills and Admons have been copied onto new new microfilm and have been re-numbered and now come under a new reference of GS# followed by a number.
There is a folder held at the RO which lists the ANF/ANW wills by year date (yours is ANF will register 1783-1786) and then give you the GS# number for the film to search
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The ones on "norfolksources" are OK - are they different?
e.g. (huge link, sorry)
http://www.norfolksources.norfolk.gov.uk/DserveNS/dserve.exe?dsqServer=NCC3CL01&dsqIni=dserveProbate.ini&dsqApp=ArchiveNS&dsqCmd=ImageView.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqImage=Probate\Wills\GS_0167184\02407.jpg
BugBear
Yes those on Norfolk Sources are OK. But we've found quite a few, particularly prior to the early 1700s which are not very good. One from 1706 had to be printed twice for each page, one darker than the other, to have any chance of reading it. Otherwise are very dark in places and too light in others. Whether this was just the microfilming or is down to water damage/fading of the original document I don't know as haven't seen the originals. It doesn't apply to all but just be aware. The NCC Wills do appear to be worse than the Archdeaconry Courts. It may be down to how they were originally stored prior to being deposited at the Record Office.
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I think that the old microfilms for Wills and Admons have been copied onto new new microfilm and have been re-numbered and now come under a new reference of GS# followed by a number.
There is a folder held at the RO which lists the ANF/ANW wills by year date (yours is ANF will register 1783-1786) and then give you the GS# number for the film to search
Ah - thank you.
BugBear
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Seeing as the fees pdf suggests you can print microfilm images for £1.80, I would go that route 1st as photographing microfilm reader screens is extremely hit or miss. They wouldn't offer the service if the output wasn't of a very high level.
Depending on the quality of the image on the film, the type of reader and the lighting in the room, you can get a very bright patch in the middle of the screen which is made worse with photography or the screen reflects an image of the surroundings and you get shadows.
Which ever way, I expect you will have to play with your camera images in a photo editing package when you get home to adjust the lighting/contast.
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Seeing as the fees pdf suggests you can print microfilm images for £1.80, I would go that route 1st as photographing microfilm reader screens is extremely hit or miss. They wouldn't offer the service if the output wasn't of a very high level.
The service is good but the problem is the quality of the microfilm images. We've used both self service and "mail order" in the past. They were very good with one Will via post which had to be printed twice per page, they only charged us the minimum fee because of the poor quality. Most of the original Wills are in rolls and they are reluctant to allow you to see them even if the microfilm copy is virtually unreadable.
I agree with Dawn though re photographing microfilms and the problems with light. I've done some in the past at LDS Family History Centres and its been a bit hit and miss. Unfortunately with Wills it could be more tricky as you need all the text, I had problems just with parish registers and trying to get a good copy. I know their copy charges are high but you will get the best copy they can produce off the film, something we've experienced in the past.