RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Carole in Dallas on Tuesday 17 January 17 16:15 GMT (UK)
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Cheery Hello!
An old friend of mine gave me a call to see if I could help her find the parents, grandparents, siblings of the following gentleman and his wife. Apparently by 1805 he had moved to South Carolina after living in Pennsylvnia. Her entire family had lived in South Carolina ever since.
I thought I would turn to you to see if you could find any of that information.
Hugs of appreciation sent your way for any help.
Samuel Maxwell Cummings:
Born 12 Nov 1763 Stokesley, Yorkshire, England
Died 12 September 1826 South Carolina
Married Mary Ann Wilson 1765-1800
.... 18 April 1786
.... Sotkesley, Yorkshire, England
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Re: Dr. Samuel Maxwell Cummings Born 12 Nov 1783 Stokesley
Born 12 Nov 1783 Stokesley, Yorkshire, England
Died 12 September 1826 South Carolina
Married Mary Ann Wilson 1765-1800
.... 18 April 1786
.... Sotkesley, Yorkshire, England
If Samuel was born 1783 and Mary Ann 1765 - she was 18yrs older than him
Also - if he was born 1783 - he would have been 3yrs old at the time of a 1786 marriage
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Apparently by 1805 he had moved to South Carolina after living in Pennsylvnia.
Presumably Mary Ann died in Pennsylvania
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This is the marriage from FS but no middle name shown
Name Saml. Cummings
Spouse's Name Mary Wilson
Event Date 18 Apr 1786
Event Place Stokesley,York,England
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Image of marriage entry just adds "both of this parish"
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Terribly sorry about the typo. We did see that marriage. She has been trying to figure out how to find the parents and siblings. Any ideas?
I have gone back that far to date to help individuals.
Thanks all! YOU are the BEST!
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How can get back to the baptism of this Samuel to see if his parents are listed. Thanks once again!
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PS Can you send me a jpeg of that marriage...thanks!
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Hi
None of the dates you gave have been corrected so my original comments still stand.
If he was born in 1783 - he could not possibly have married in 1786 so either you have given the wrong birthyear or you have the wrong marriage.
If the birthyear is right and the marriage is wrong - then what proof do you have he was born in Stokesley?
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Cheery Hello
In my original post, I changed to the correct birth year. Thanks once again.
Samuel Maxwell Cummings:
Born 12 Nov 1763 Stokesley, Yorkshire, England
Died 12 September 1826 South Carolina
Married Mary Ann Wilson 1765-1800
.... 18 April 1786
.... Sotkesley, Yorkshire, England
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Sorted - the header on other replies still shows 1783 hence confusion ;D
Re: Dr. Samuel Maxwell Cummings Born 12 Nov 1783 Stokesley
« Reply #8 on: Today at 18:14 »
Hi
None of the dates you gave have been corrected so my original comments still stand.
If he was born in 1783 - he could not possibly have married in 1786 so either you have given the wrong birthyear or you have the wrong marriage.
If the birthyear is right and the marriage is wrong - then what proof do you have he was born in Stokesley?
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Hi
None of the dates you gave have been corrected so my original comments still stand.
If he was born in 1783 - he could not possibly have married in 1786 so either you have given the wrong birthyear or you have the wrong marriage.
If the birthyear is right and the marriage is wrong - then what proof do you have he was born in Stokesley?
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Hi
None of the dates you gave have been corrected so my original comments still stand.
If he was born in 1783 - he could not possibly have married in 1786 so either you have given the wrong birthyear or you have the wrong marriage.
If the birthyear is right and the marriage is wrong - then what proof do you have he was born in Stokesley?
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Hi
None of the dates you gave have been corrected so my original comments still stand.
If he was born in 1783 - he could not possibly have married in 1786 so either you have given the wrong birthyear or you have the wrong marriage.
If the birthyear is right and the marriage is wrong - then what proof do you have he was born in Stokesley?
-
Hi
None of the dates you gave have been corrected so my original comments still stand.
If he was born in 1783 - he could not possibly have married in 1786 so either you have given the wrong birthyear or you have the wrong marriage.
If the birthyear is right and the marriage is wrong - then what proof do you have he was born in Stokesley?
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Image of marriage entry just adds "both of this parish"
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Is there ready access to these parish records from Stokesley back in 1763?
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Bishop's Transcripts for Yorkshire and North Yorkshire records are available via Findmypast.
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I am a direct descendent of Dr. Samuel Maxwell Cummings. He was my greatgreatgrandfather.
I have also connected to him through my dna. I found the church parish records several years
back. I would like to know what records show his birthdate. Also do
the records show his parents names?
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I am a direct descendent of Dr. Samuel Maxwell Cummings. He was my greatgreatgreatgrandfather.
I have also connected to him through my dna. I found the church parish records several years
back. I would like to know what records show his birthdate. Also do
the records show his parents names?
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Hi Cecjr51
If you have looked at the Parish Records for Stokesley or the Bishop's Transcripts you will know that it is very unlikely that the 1786 Cummings - Wilson marriage is the right couple. There are apparently no children baptized for Samuel and Mary during their brief marriage. She died in September 1787.
Venelow
Canada
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I have records showing She died on a wagon trail down from Pennsylvania about 1800 to South Carolina. I have info stating the left England about 1786 for the USA. I did not have his specific birthdate It was just estimated. DO you have any records on him besides the Parish records of te marriage in Stokesley?
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Hi
If your Mary died in 1800 either Samuel married secondly another woman called Mary or the Samuel who married at Stokesley Yorkshire on September 12th 1786 is not the Samuel you seek.
The record states Samuel was "of the Parish" this does not always mean he was born there.
In England, before civil birth records started in 1837, the most usual way to determine someone's parentage would be to find their baptism. Often people do not distinguish between a baptism and a date of birth. One would look for a baptism on or about the years computed from the age at death but this was not always stated on the burial record and often guessed at.
A date of birth might be found in military documents or school records but for most ordinary people the best shot at finding when they were approximately born was their baptism. There is no record of a baptism for a Samuel Cummings or Cummins at Stokesley. There are other Cummins baptisms but none for Samuel.
Samuel M. Cummings was a Doctor. A medical doctor I believe. The Samuel who married Mary Wilson was a weaver. That is stated on her burial record. It is not impossible but fairly unlikely that a weaver could get the education to became a medical doctor in the 1780s. Do you have absolute proof that he came from Yorkshire or even England? Or is this based on the marriage place because it's the only one anybody has found. The marriage information I have does not show the full record. It would be useful to see if he signed his name as there may be documents in the U.S. with which it could be compared. If he did not sign, this might indicate that he was uneducated.
If Samuel the weaver from Stokesley is the same person then you would have to consider how and where he trained to be a doctor (he was about 24 when his wife died if the approximate birth date is correct) and he also got together enough money to buy land that by 1811 was a considerable plantation. I think land records would be useful to pinpoint when he first bought land and how much he paid for it if such records exist for South Carolina. Of course the doctor title might have been exaggerated. He could have been selling patent cures for common ailments.
Venelow
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I thank you for the clarification on the Mary Wilson and Samuel Cummings that married in Stokesley.
I found information on Dr. Cummings through several different sources. From family notes he
attended lectures in London of Benjamin Franklin. He came to USA and studied at a school of medicine in Pennsylvania. He and his wife are listed in a city directory in 1786. He left Pennsylvania in 1800 with his wife and four children. His wife died on the journey to South Carolina. He had a medicine bag with a brass inscription " To my beloved adopted son old Ben". The bag was destroyed
when Sherman came through. A relative has the brass plate. I guess I was the one that found the marriage in the church Parish records in the early 2000 when they were posted online. It fit the time. I will just have to do more reesearch. He is buried not far from where I grew up.
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Hi Cecjr51
I did look for the death of weaver Samuel Cummins/Cummings and did not find one. However if you have him in a Directory in Pennsylvania in 1786 then the weaver is definitely ruled out as his wife died in Yorkshire in 1787.
Also it does not seem credible that he married on September 12th 1786 in Yorkshire and arrived in the USA in time to get a listing in the Directory for 1786. Such publications were prepared months prior to the year they were published.
Samuel's modest grave marker shown on Find a Grave shows his first wife as Mary P. It seems even the person who placed the marker had no information about his first wife's full name. I would think that he was married in the U.S. rather than England.
There is a list of correspondents of the Rush Family held by the Library Company of Philadelphia. It seems Samuel wrote to a Rush family member in 1803 inquiring about medical lectures.
See: http://www.lcpimages.org/lcpAT/pdf/RushBenjamin_alpha%20correspondence.pdf
The letter may hold some clues about his education and medical career. Also note that the Rush family includes a member called Benjamin Rush. Could he be Old Ben?
To me the name Maxwell suggests a Scottish connection. Have you considered looking for a birth there?
Good Luck with your search.
Venelow
Canada
P.S. I just Googled Benjamin Rush - physician and signer of the Declaration of Independence. He died in 1813.
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Thank you for the info. I will check this out. Sure gives some thought.
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Correction
cecjr51 has pointed out my typo in Reply #24 above.
Samuel Cummings married on April 18th 1786. His wife Mary Wilson was buried on September 12th 1787.
Due to "eye slip" when copying I wrote the wrong month and day for the marriage. My apologies.
Venelow