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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Benody1921 on Monday 23 January 17 20:40 GMT (UK)
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I'm wondering if anyone is researching the Brooks family and if anyone has come across a Brooks/Noke union.
I found a birth record on the GRO for George Henry BROOKS b. APR-MAY-JUN 1884 in Stourbridge, MMN NOKE.
I haven't been able to find a marriage between a Brooks and Noke. My Great-Grandfather was born George Harry Brooks Dunn on 28 Aug 1883 or 1884 in Wollescote, Worcestershire. There were rumours that he had been adopted within the family. This is a real stretch but I'd like to be able to rule out any birth records that could possibly be him.
Thanks,
Melody
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Have you tried Noake or Noakes?
If he was born in August - his birth would have been registered in the September qtr - not the June qtr
Does he name a father on his marriage cert?
How do you know for certain he was born in Wollescote if you don't have his birth cert?
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I haven't been able to find a marriage between a Brooks and Noke.
There is the possibility that it was her second marriage and therefore she wouldn't have married under the name of Noke.
What were the first names of his parents on the 1891 census?
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The 1891 has a 7yr old Harry Brooks b Lye living with Grandfather Thomas Welton aged 56 and other family members
No Welton/Brooks marriage
Living in the Stourbridge RD RG12 Piece 2303 Folio 79 Page 50
EDIT - surname is WELLON in 1881
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Have you tried Noake or Noakes?
If he was born in August - his birth would have been registered in the September qtr - not the June qtr
Does he name a father on his marriage cert?
How do you know for certain he was born in Wollescote if you don't have his birth cert?
I was thinking that his August birthday might have been given to him by his adoptive parents, perhaps the day they took him in. Like I said, it's a bit of a reach but at this point I'm grasping at any little thing.
I know he was born in Wollescote because of the census and because of his Naval Service records.
**Edit**
On his marriage certificate, Edwin Dunn is his father. Edwin Dunn is also his father on his school record in 1891.
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I haven't been able to find a marriage between a Brooks and Noke.
There is the possibility that it was her second marriage and therefore she wouldn't have married under the name of Noke.
What were the first names of his parents on the 1891 census?
I never even thought about the possibility of a second marriage. I'll have to look into that.
On the 1891 Census, my George is a Visitor at the house or Joseph and Cecilia Hyrons. His 1891 school record lists Edwin Dunn as his father and their address is Careless Green.
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Hi following the George H Dunn you show in 1891 into 1901 he is shown as son of a Betsy Dunn 51 b Lye he also is shown as born Lye but living in Wollescote, RG13/2755/12/16.
In 1881 census:-
Edwin Dunn 31 Son in Law occ Bucket Maker b Brierley Hill, Staffs
Betsy 31 b Lye
are shown with an Elizabeth Brook 68 Unmarried? b Lye
Residing at Careless Green, Wollescote
Census Ref RG11/2890/12/18
And in 1891 census:-
Elizabeth Brooks 78 Widow b Lye
Betsy Brooks 40 Married b Lye
Residing at Belmont Road, Wollescote
Census Ref RG12/2304/145/13
In the last census George aged 27 b Wollescote is with his mother Betsy.
Keyboard86
EDIT The birth registration of his mother was Betsy Brooks June qtr 1849 Stourbridge Union v18 page 557 mmn Pardoe
And this possible marriage:-
Edwin Dunn to ( on same page ) Betsy Brooks June qtr 1872 Bromsgrove 6c 653
Edwin Dunn married Betsy Brooks 24th June 1872 Saint Kenelms, Romsley, Worcestershire. ( That is if they are the parents of George H)?
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Hi Melody,
The name NOKE is registered at the Guild of One Name Studies, http://one-name.org/ You should get help on the name there. Put NOKE in to the search engine.
Mike
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Hi following the George H Dunn you show in 1891 into 1901 he is shown as son of a Betsy Dunn 51 b Lye he also is shown as born Lye but living in Wollescote, RG13/2755/12/16.
In 1881 census:-
Edwin Dunn 31 Son in Law occ Bucket Maker b Brierley Hill, Staffs
Betsy 31 b Lye
are shown with an Elizabeth Brook 68 Unmarried? b Lye
Residing at Careless Green, Wollescote
Census Ref RG11/2890/12/18
And in 1891 census:-
Elizabeth Brooks 78 Widow b Lye
Betsy Brooks 40 Married b Lye
Residing at Belmont Road, Wollescote
Census Ref RG12/2304/145/13
In the last census George aged 27 b Wollescote is with his mother Betsy.
Keyboard86
EDIT The birth registration of his mother was Betsy Brooks June qtr 1849 Stourbridge Union v18 page 557 mmn Pardoe
And this possible marriage:-
Edwin Dunn to ( on same page ) Betsy Brooks June qtr 1872 Bromsgrove 6c 653
Edwin Dunn married Betsy Brooks 24th June 1872 Saint Kenelms, Romsley, Worcestershire. ( That is if they are the parents of George H)?
Hi Keyboard,
Yes, 24 Jun 1872 is when Edwin Dunn and Betsy Brooks married. Because of the long gap between their marriage and George's birth we think he was adopted. My grandad had heard a rumour that his dad had been taken in by someone in the family.
I've used the GRO to find a George Harry Dunn or George Henry Dunn or any other variation with MMN Brooks or Brookes or any other variation and none come up to match my great grandad. I've gotten to the point where I'm searching any George Harry's in the GRO, starting with Stourbridge in the 1883-1885 range. George Henry Brooks came up with the MMN Noke so I thought I'd check it out.
There's a good chance that Betsy and Edwin gave him a new forename but with the name George Harry Brooks Dunn I know that Brooks comes from Betsy's maiden name and Dunn comes fom Edwin. George and Harry are not names I've come across on either family. I would have thought they would have named their only son after their own father's. That might be a wrong assumption but it seems to be a pattern.
I've got several records for my George Harry Dunn. The missing link is his birth record and it seems impossible to find. A lot of clues point to him being adopted. Now I'm searching for anything in birth records that could be him. My original post was to find a Brooks/Noke union or even anything about a Noke that may have had an illegitimate baby.
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Hi Melody,
The name NOKE is registered at the Guild of One Name Studies, http://one-name.org/ You should get help on the name there. Put NOKE in to the search engine.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Thank you for the link. I've never seen that site before. I'm sure it'll be useful.
Melody
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In 1901 George Dunn 17 is with widowed mother Betsy 51 b Worcs plus boarder Alfred John Sparrow aged 33
Total longshot but there is a birth for a George Dunn mmn Dunn in the September qtr 1884 Stourbridge 6C 170
Also - if he was adopted then you have no guarantees his birth was registered in the Stourbridge RD. George himself would only know he was brought up in Wollescote hence the assumption of birth registration
Can't find Edwin in 1891
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:) So why would the birth certificate indicate who possibly adopted him?
He is with Betsy on two census returns, maybe it would be worth while finding out why at 7 years old he was a visitor to the Hyrons household?
Keyword86
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Hi again, how many children does Betsy state she has had on the 1911 census?
Keyboard86
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:) So why would the birth certificate indicate who possibly adopted him?
Isnt it a case of the assumption being that Edwin and Betsy (nee Brooks) Dunn "adopted" him, and that his natural parents were some sort of relation to one or the other of them, and thus the birth of this George Henry Brooks might be his birth, the Brooks surname indicating he was related to Betsy nee Brooks. And therefore a Brooks/Noke marriage might help produce some first names for his natural parents.
That is how I have read the situation, but I may be wrong.
An awful lot of assumptions though.
I wouldn't take the fact that he was born several years into the marriage as an indication that he was adopted. I know plenty of people who have had to wait a long time for the arrival of their first child.
However, if there isn't a birth of George Henry Dunn with MMN Brooks around the right time, then something must have happened out of the ordinary. I haven't checked.
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Total longshot but there is a birth for a George Dunn mmn Dunn in the September qtr 1884 Stourbridge 6C 170
Also - if he was adopted then you have no guarantees his birth was registered in the Stourbridge RD. George himself would only know he was brought up in Wollescote hence the assumption of birth registration
Can't find Edwin in 1891
I actually ordered that George Dunn birth certificate before the GRO added the MMN feature. Unfortunately it's not the right one.
I also haven't been able to find Edwin Dunn in the 1891 Census. He appears in a school record for George in 1891. Then in 1892 he's mentioned as Betsy Dunn's husband for her mother's probate record. Then he's mentioned on George's marriage certificate (1915). Betsy is listed as a Widow on the 1901 and 1911 Census but family members believe they actually separated or divorced.
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Hi again, how many children does Betsy state she has had on the 1911 census?
Keyboard86
Betsy leaves the children born, living, and died part of the census blank. That may also be another indication that she didn't give birth. Or perhaps she was just feeling a bit lazy.
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:) So why would the birth certificate indicate who possibly adopted him?
Isnt it a case of the assumption being that Edwin and Betsy (nee Brooks) Dunn "adopted" him, and that his natural parents were some sort of relation to one or the other of them, and thus the birth of this George Henry Brooks might be his birth, the Brooks surname indicating he was related to Betsy nee Brooks. And therefore a Brooks/Noke marriage might help produce some first names for his natural parents.
That is how I have read the situation, but I may be wrong.
That was exactly my thoughts. Since the rumour is that he was "taken in" by a family member I was hoping a birth record might indicate which family member. If he really was adopted, I would guess it was by a Brooks side since if he parents divorced he seems to always be living with his mother.
At this point I feel like I'm grasping at straws trying to figure out the ever elusive Dunns. I've been trying to figure out why George would be living with the Hyrons in 1891. I haven't been able to make a connection yet. Although, he's listed a Visitor. Does that mean he was living there or just there at the time of the census? I'm not really sure how the Visitor part works.
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The census is just a picture of where people were on that one night. So he could have been visiting just for that night, or for longer. Unlikely he was living there, or I don't think the term "visitor" would have been used.
Again I wouldn't assume that Edwin and Betsy were separated just because they are not together on census night.
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No, I believe in 1891 they were still together because in 1892 he's her husband on her mother's Will. In the 1901 and 1911 Census she calls herself a Widow. In 1911 she lists 20 years of marriage (they married in 1872). On George's marriage certificate, he doesn't list Edwin as deceased, though that doesn't mean he wasn't. I haven't found a death certificate for an Edwin Dunn that matches the correct year of birth until 1921; I'm not sure if even that's the correct Edwin Dunn. I have the DC but it's hard to know for sure if he's my Edwin or not.
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Have you ruled out:
death
Jan/Feb/Mar 1900
Gloucester
6a 258
Edwin Dunn
age 48
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I don't know if I've seen that one before. I guess I didn't think to look anywhere outside of Staffordshire, Worcestershire, Warwickshire, and Yorkshire. His siblings seemed to have live in those areas.
I'm waiting to hear back but one of George's grandchildren have a parchment of some sort and he's certain it has to do with Betsy Brooks and a divorce. I'll have to wait until he finds it to know for sure.