RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Duncan Lowes on Thursday 26 January 17 07:48 GMT (UK)
-
Hi all
I have been doing my family history for a long time but there is one corner of my tree which has a huge gap and I'm not sure why so little is showing up, whether there are missing records, bad transcriptions, name changes, r a lack of other researchers
There are a couple of families I am interested in
1. John Lowes (b Leeds, c 1808) lived in Heworth 1861 and 1871. Must also have been there in 1841 ad 1851 since his daughter Eleanor was born there in 1835. However there is n soign at all in 1841 and 1851 records
2. His wife Eleanor (nee ??, b 1835 Denton Burn). No records prior to 1861
3. Margaret Clough, daughter in law (b 1854 Windy Nook), married to John George Lowes no records of her family prior to 1861 (EDIT this was including her parents. Thanks to those who were able to decipher my inadequate information)
So any assistance would be gratefully received. I have no idea why there seems such a gap in this particular area of Durham in the 1841 and 1851 records. 1871 records also seem to be missing. Is there a gap or is there widespread mistranscription or names changes?? Or would they have moved temporarily. Childrens birth places suggest they didnt leave the area
regards Duncan
regards Duncan
-
1851
HO107/2401 Folio 185 Page 60
John Lawes 44 Paper Maker bn Leeds
Eleanor 36 bn Newburn, Northumberland
Eleanor 16 Scholar bn Heworth, Durham
John George 6 (wks or months ) bn Heworth, Durham
-
GRO Birth Index - Mothers maiden name listed as Taylor
JOHN GEORGE LOWES 1850 Dec Quarter GATESHEAD Vol 24 Page 170
-
1841 Living at Heworth Lane, Jarrow, Gateshead All born in County Durham
John Lowes 30 Labourer
Ellnoir Lowes 30
Elener Lowes 6
Esther Lowes 1
Added Esther's birth on GRO Index also lists mothers maiden name as Taylor
-
I note this marriage
Newcastle St John 25 Dec 1833 -John Lowes and Ellen Taylor (both signed with their mark). Witnesses - Thomas Lowes and John Pears.
William
-
Doing a free search on Durham Records Online there is a baptism in 1835 for an Eleanor Lowes in Newcastle District - abode given as Heworth Shore.
Also note baptism for Eleanor daughter of John and Eleanor Lowes on familysaerch 14 Feb 1835 Newcastle All Saints
From the Bts Feb 14th 1835 Eleanor daughter of John and Eleanor Lowes -abode Heworth Shore Father's occupation paper maker.
William
-
Is this a possible for Margaret Clough?
From the gro indexes
Margaret Ann Clough Jul - Sep 1853 Durham Mother's maiden name Stewart.
William
-
For reference is this your Margaret Clough with family in 1861 living at Windy Nook, Heworth
Andrew Clough 35 Quarryman Hebron? Durham
Mary Ann 35 Gateshead, Durham
Joseph 14 Office Boy Heworth, Durham
Mary Ann 9 Windy Nook, Durham
Margaret 7 Windy Nook, Durham
Jane Ann 1 Windy Nook, Durham
-
1851? Living in Windy Nook, Heworth all children born
Sherriff Hill Windy Nook
Edward Clough 25 b Heworth Hebburn Quarryman
Mary Ann Clough 28 Gateshead
Joseph Clough 5
John Clough 4
Edward Clough ?
-
For reference is this your Margaret Clough with family in 1861 living at Windy Nook, Heworth
Andrew Clough 35 Quarryman Hebron? Durham
Mary Ann 35 Gateshead, Durham
Joseph 14 Office Boy Heworth, Durham
Mary Ann 9 Windy Nook, Durham
Margaret 7 Windy Nook, Durham
Jane Ann 1 Windy Nook, Durham
1851? Living in Windy Nook, Heworth all children born Sherriff Hill Windy Nook
Edward Clough 25 b Heworth Hebburn Quarryman
Mary Ann Clough 28 Gateshead
Joseph Clough 5
John Clough 4
Edward Clough ?
I think these are the same family, Edward has been put down as Andrew in 1861
1841? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQBZ-8WW
Marriages Dec 1845 Same page
CLOUGH Edward Gateshead 24 153
SNAITH Mary Ann Gateshead 24 153
Marriage https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLZQ-M24
Think this is Margarets birth Reg
CLEUGH, MARGARET Mmn SNAITH
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 365
Bapt https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJY6-NH1
Margaret and John George marriage cert 1874 could confirm.
Marriage https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLZ3-S84
All children of both census can be found with Mmn Snaith in Gateshead Reg district, under Cluff, Cleugh, Clough. Use phonetic sound search. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Cas
-
Hi all
Thanks everyone so much. I can't answer evryone individually yet. it will take me a while to investigate all the sources. They definitely look like likely possibilities
Will get back to you when I have double checked. The paper maker means he changed work since he was a miner in 1861 but thats not uncommon since so mny people ended up in the miines. I had tried looking for some Lawes but hadn't found that one
Thanks all!!!
regards Duncan
-
Thanks! Definitely looks like them. Right area and everything. I had done some Lawes searches but had missed this. Obviously changed his job a great deal in different censuses too.
regards Duncan
1851
HO107/2401 Folio 185 Page 60
John Lawes 44 Paper Maker bn Leeds
Eleanor 36 bn Newburn, Northumberland
Eleanor 16 Scholar bn Heworth, Durham
John George 6 (wks or months ) bn Heworth, Durham
-
Hi
Yes, this is the family I have. I only had as far back as this 1861 record. Thanks for all the help
regards Duncan
For reference is this your Margaret Clough with family in 1861 living at Windy Nook, Heworth
Andrew Clough 35 Quarryman Hebron? Durham
Mary Ann 35 Gateshead, Durham
Joseph 14 Office Boy Heworth, Durham
Mary Ann 9 Windy Nook, Durham
Margaret 7 Windy Nook, Durham
Jane Ann 1 Windy Nook, Durham
-
Thanks so much
Interesting the name differences but must be the same family
Maybe Andrew Edward or Edward Andrew
I did have Snaith as middle names in one of the children but hadn't tracked down the Snaiths
EDIT I just checked my records though and I did have the Edward Clough/Cleugh family in a a disconnected part of my research. I'm still not 100% sure of the strange disconnect between the families. There may be two different families or something strange going on with my matching and database :)
regards Duncan
For reference is this your Margaret Clough with family in 1861 living at Windy Nook, Heworth
Andrew Clough 35 Quarryman Hebron? Durham
Mary Ann 35 Gateshead, Durham
Joseph 14 Office Boy Heworth, Durham
Mary Ann 9 Windy Nook, Durham
Margaret 7 Windy Nook, Durham
Jane Ann 1 Windy Nook, Durham
1851? Living in Windy Nook, Heworth all children born Sherriff Hill Windy Nook
Edward Clough 25 b Heworth Hebburn Quarryman
Mary Ann Clough 28 Gateshead
Joseph Clough 5
John Clough 4
Edward Clough ?
I think these are the same family, Edward has been put down as Andrew in 1861
1841? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQBZ-8WW
Marriages Dec 1845 Same page
CLOUGH Edward Gateshead 24 153
SNAITH Mary Ann Gateshead 24 153
Marriage https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLZQ-M24
Think this is Margarets birth Reg
CLEUGH, MARGARET Mmn SNAITH
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 365
Bapt https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJY6-NH1
Margaret and John George marriage cert 1874 could confirm.
Marriage https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLZ3-S84
All children of both census can be found with Mmn Snaith in Gateshead Reg district, under Cluff, Cleugh, Clough. Use phonetic sound search. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Cas
-
I can't answer evryone individually yet.
You don't need to answer us all individually ;) Just come back with any queries
-
Thanks
I think just to confuse matters (as usual) there may have been several Mary Anns born in 1826. So I'm still trying to compare the families. I think the Edward and Andrew famiies are different Mary Anns although I had considered maybe a remarriage or something. Just having to tidy up all my links at the moment
I can't answer evryone individually yet.
You don't need to answer us all individually ;) Just come back with any queries
-
Have to say that my conclusion would be that they were the same family and that Margaret Clough's mother was Mary Ann Snaith. Hopefully the following might help:
This is the 1871 census at Windy Nook, Heworth
Edward Clough 45 quarryman b Heworth
Mary Ann Clough wife 45 b Gateshead
Edward Clough son 8 b Heworth
If you follow Cas's link to the groindexes the following births all in Gateshead RD can be found
Joseph Cluff J 1846
John Cleugh S 1847 Death S 1851
Edward Cleugh D 1849 Death S 1851
Mary Ann Clough D 1851
Margaret Cleugh D 1853
Jane Ann Cleugh D 1855 Death S 1858
Jane Ann Cleugh J 1859
Edward Clough D 1862
In all cases the mother's maiden name is shown as Snaith. It would also appear from the above that the names of deceased children have been repeated.
There is also an entry in the probate calendar for Edward Cleugh died 23 April 1889, Gateshead - it says he was of Gladstone Terrace Windy Nook and a quarryman. Admin to Mary Ann Cleugh spinster.
William
-
Hi
I believe this is a different John since this John is born in Durham. It seems following a few other leads that he was born in Tanfield, Durham since Esther was later found living with visitors in Tanfield and there is a Birth and Baptism record from Tanfield
John Lowes b 22 Jan 1805, baptism 17 Feb 1805
Robert Lowes - father
Eleanor Hedley - mother
Its a good find though considering the very unclear writing and mistransriptions. It seems that Lowes is often mistranscribed as Lower
So I still am searching for John Lowes from Leeds in the 1841 census. Its a tricky one though since the daughter Eleanor's age matches up but the other ages and John's birthplace don't match up
Thanks anyway. I am getting close to a brute force search through every page of the 1841 Heworth Census. Its always possible they were in Northumberland. I have found a huge amount of river crossing between 1841 and 1851 - mainly mine related but Heworth still seems most likely
regards Duncan
1841 Living at Heworth Lane, Jarrow, Gateshead All born in County Durham
John Lowes 30 Labourer
Ellnoir Lowes 30
Elener Lowes 6
Esther Lowes 1
Added Esther's birth on GRO Index also lists mothers maiden name as Taylor
-
I think the 1841 Lowes family in Heworth is the right one, just mistakenly put down as all born Durham. Ages are a little out but not unusual.
Esther Lowes is living with a Taylor family in Tanfield in 1851. This appears to be her mothers family, as from the GRO birth index for Esther and John George, their mother Eleanor Lowes maiden name was Taylor.
In 1851 Eleanor is down as born Newburn, in 1861 born Denton Burn, so this is probably her baptism.
1 Sep 1816, Newburn. Eleanor Taylor, daughter of Samuel and Mary Taylor, of Denton Burn. Father a Coal Miner.
The Taylor family in 1851 at Shield Row, Tanfield :
Mary Taylor, Head, 73, Widow of Coal Miner, b. Chester le Street.
William ", son, unm, 48, Coal Miner, b. Northumberland St. John.
Edward ", son unm, 27, Coal Miner, b. Gosforth,
Esther Lowes, Visitor, 11, b. Heworth.
So these are probably William and Edwards baptisms :
27 Dec 1823, Newcastle St. Nicholas. Edward Taylor, son of Samuel and Mary Taylor, of Kenton. Father a Collier.
20 Jul 1806, Newcastle St. John. William Taylor, born 28 Mar 1806, 3rd son of Samuel Taylor, Pitman, native of Lamesley, by his wife Mary, daughter of William Robson, Native of Chester le Street.
Alan.
-
Hi Alan and Kay and everyone
Thanks for all the detective work. I think from your combined efforts that it must be the missing 1841 record for John and the Taylor link.
I just wonder why some of these records aren't showing up in my searches but the Lowes side is starting to look complete
The only remaining confusing thing I have now is the Edward/Andrew clough which I am trying to work out -whether it was just an alternative name or something else
Thanks all for all your detectiive work
Duncan
-
Hi
Im just double checking and the evidence I have really points to the likelihood of them being two John Lowes. There is clearly a Lowes fmily from Tanfield. Johns parents are Robert and Eleanor (nee Hedley) and the 1841 record and the 1851 record of Esther in Tanfield fit this family
However all the other records have him born in Leeds with an aproximately 3 year difference in age
So I'm yet to be convinced they are the same. Maybe I need to track down Leeds records and find if there is a John Lowes born in Leeds around 1807/8
regards Duncan
Hi Alan and Kay and everyone
Thanks for all the detective work. I think from your combined efforts that it must be the missing 1841 record for John and the Taylor link.
I just wonder why some of these records aren't showing up in my searches but the Lowes side is starting to look complete
The only remaining confusing thing I have now is the Edward/Andrew clough which I am trying to work out -whether it was just an alternative name or something else
Thanks all for all your detectiive work
Duncan
-
Hi Duncan
Having looked again at the 1841 census for John Lowes while his age is transcribed as 30 the 0 could conceivably be a 6.
I may be missing something but the only evidence linking to a Lowes family in Tanfield seems to be one baptism.To my mind the evidence provided by Alan is pretty persuasive probability wise that the 1841 John Lowes is yours.
Perhaps the best way for you to resolve your impasse would be to obtain some certs. eg birth cert for Esther and John George. There is a death for an Esther Lowes of the right age in Gateshead Oct - Dec 1859 and a burial record in Heworth. Her death cert. and the informant's name on it might prove helpful.
William
-
Hi
Yeah, its really strange. The abscence of other records makes it hard to pin down. I guess for me there are a few links to Tanfield
1. Johns bptism record (Robert and Elenor parents) - could have been born Leeds and baptised Tanfied I suppose
2. Esther living in Tanfield in 1851 - suggesting family links there
Other John's census records all have born Leeds (1851-1891)
Its just quite a few discrepancies but it could still be the same John
I will try and find other records too. For the moment they are linked as tentatively the same family
best Duncan
Hi Duncan
Having looked again at the 1841 census for John Lowes while his age is transcribed as 30 the 0 could conceivably be a 6.
I may be missing something but the only evidence linking to a Lowes family in Tanfield seems to be one baptism.To my mind the evidence provided by Alan is pretty persuasive probability wise that the 1841 John Lowes is yours.
Perhaps the best way for you to resolve your impasse would be to obtain some certs. eg birth cert for Esther and John George. There is a death for an Esther Lowes of the right age in Gateshead Oct - Dec 1859 and a burial record in Heworth. Her death cert. and the informant's name on it might prove helpful.
William
-
The baptism record for John Lowes in Tanfield 1805 Parents Robert Hedley and Eleanor Hedley gives the abode as Lintzford.
The 1851 Census has the following entry in Trimdon, co. Durham
John Lowes 45 Head mar Coalminer Born Durham Linsford
Dorothy Lowes 39 Wife
Dorothy Lowes 8 Daughter
Robt Hedley Lowes 6 Son
Ellen Lowes 7 months Daughter
Linzford and Linsford looks pretty similiar to me.
William
-
Thanks William
So that confirms they are all a different family really, since my 1851 family was John (born Leeds) and Eleanor (born Denton Burn, Northumberland). So I can rule out the Hedley parents too
So I'm still looking for my 1841 record
I will keep looking Thanks for the help
regards Duncan
The baptism record for John Lowes in Tanfield 1805 Parents Robert Hedley and Eleanor Hedley gives the abode as Lintzford.
The 1851 Census has the following entry in Trimdon, co. Durham
John Lowes 45 Head mar Coalminer Born Durham Linsford
Dorothy Lowes 39 Wife
Dorothy Lowes 8 Daughter
Robt Hedley Lowes 6 Son
Ellen Lowes 7 months Daughter
Linzford and Linsford looks pretty similiar to me.
William
-
Actually I would be inclined to interpret my last post in a different way as a further suggestion that the 1841 John Lowes in Heworth is yours.
William
-
Actually I would be inclined to interpret my last post in a different way as a further suggestion that the 1841 John Lowes in Heworth is yours.
William
I would very much agree with William & Alan, I also think the 1841 family is yours.
Cas
-
Hi
Thanks everyone. I know its quite possible. There are just a few lose ends and inconsistencies to confirm it. I am currently filling out as much as I can of the other Lowes families in the different areas in order to check. My biggest problem is what happened to Esther and if she is the same Esther as the 1851 census in Tanfield. In which case there is a Lowes Tanfield link, another John Lowes who I have baptism record from Tanfield (married to Dorothy), along with the incosnsitencies in birthdates and places. I know the 1841 census was often a bit inaccurate. If I can commplete the picture with Tanfield Lowes', Hedleys and Taylors it will confirm everything. I'm still hopefull of finding some birth records from Leeds
thanks all
Duncan
Thanks William
So that confirms they are all a different family really, since my 1851 family was John (born Leeds) and Eleanor (born Denton Burn, Northumberland). So I can rule out the Hedley parents too
So I'm still looking for my 1841 record
I will keep looking Thanks for the help
regards Duncan
The baptism record for John Lowes in Tanfield 1805 Parents Robert Hedley and Eleanor Hedley gives the abode as Lintzford.
The 1851 Census has the following entry in Trimdon, co. Durham
John Lowes 45 Head mar Coalminer Born Durham Linsford
Dorothy Lowes 39 Wife
Dorothy Lowes 8 Daughter
Robt Hedley Lowes 6 Son
Ellen Lowes 7 months Daughter
Linzford and Linsford looks pretty similiar to me.
William
-
Apologies - I have just realised that I made a typo on a previous post. John Lowes b Tanfield 1805 was the son of Robert Lowes and Eleanor Hedley.
This is the full entry from the Bt's
John Lowes born Jan 22 Lintz Ford bap Feb 17 4th son of Robert Lowes paper maker Native of Branspeth by his wife Eleanor Hedley native of Durham.
2 younger siblings to this couple are Hedley Lowes 1 Sept 1809 and Ann 23 Dec 1811 St Margaret's Durham. (Probably also Mary 9 July 1807 Durham St Margaret's).
Again it perhaps shows that we can all interpret documents in different ways. I simply cannot see a long term connection with Tanfield regarding the Lowes or Taylors (or the Hedleys for that matter).
As I indicated in a previous post I think the only way to be "sure" is by means of certificates, the birth cert for Esther Lowes being the most obvious one to obtain. Given that the last sighting of Esther is in the 1851 census (there is neither an obvious entry in the 1861 census nor a marriage for her between 1851 and 1861 census) the death I highlighted in Gateshead RD may well be her. The parish record shows a burial 14 Dec 1859 Heworth with an estimated birth year of 1839 (birth reg was in the Oct - Dec quarter of 1839).
Good luck with your search
William
-
Thanks for all your help William
Yes the Tanfield link is hard although there are a few records for different Lowes families in that area.
Hoping to find both the Esther information and hopefully one day John's birth from Leeds will show up on a record. Or next time I'm in England I will try to track them down
I will keep looking. I'm having a mini-break as I find I can only do this in short bursts - ends up becoming a time sink for me
Maybe chat again another time
thanks Duncan
Apologies - I have just realised that I made a typo on a previous post. John Lowes b Tanfield 1805 was the son of Robert Lowes and Eleanor Hedley.
This is the full entry from the Bt's
John Lowes born Jan 22 Lintz Ford bap Feb 17 4th son of Robert Lowes paper maker Native of Branspeth by his wife Eleanor Hedley native of Durham.
2 younger siblings to this couple are Hedley Lowes 1 Sept 1809 and Ann 23 Dec 1811 St Margaret's Durham. (Probably also Mary 9 July 1807 Durham St Margaret's).
Again it perhaps shows that we can all interpret documents in different ways. I simply cannot see a long term connection with Tanfield regarding the Lowes or Taylors (or the Hedleys for that matter).
As I indicated in a previous post I think the only way to be "sure" is by means of certificates, the birth cert for Esther Lowes being the most obvious one to obtain. Given that the last sighting of Esther is in the 1851 census (there is neither an obvious entry in the 1861 census nor a marriage for her between 1851 and 1861 census) the death I highlighted in Gateshead RD may well be her. The parish record shows a burial 14 Dec 1859 Heworth with an estimated birth year of 1839 (birth reg was in the Oct - Dec quarter of 1839).
Good luck with your search
William