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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Treetotal on Wednesday 01 February 17 09:54 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone recognise this location please. Could it be a Cricket Club?
Carol
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A Bowls Club? A local park has a similarly styled building for the bowls club; probably developed just post WW1.
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Yes I wondered if it could be Crown Green Bowling too...I would guess at 1920s for a date. It is a postcard with no clues on the back.
Thanks for your thoughts NJ.
Carol
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The slight slope at the edge of the lawn looks more like a bowling green than a cricket pitch to me. I have a photo of my grandfather bowling, and he is dressed in a similar style to some of the men on the right, with the flat cap! So I'd agree with a late 1920s date.
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Not much to go on, so I'll just add my thoughts to provoke discussion:
1. I think it's more like 1930's -did ladies in 1920 have skirts as short as the two walking towards the door?
2. It's big to be a bowls club? Plus cafe ? Plus other buildings? maybe a Golf Club?
3. "Something" abut the scenery, trees, cliffs says "Not UK" to me - Australia, NZ, SA ?
4. No-one is dressed for bowls - but dressed well - wedding party, funeral or similar ?
5 .Is there some writing on a sign below the window on the middel building to the right
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I don't think funeral as there are too many light coloured coats, I think at that time funeral wear would still be black. Must be some special occasion though to warrant the photo being used as a postcard.
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I may be totally wrong but as soon as I saw it one area came to mind, Cape Town South Africa.
There are these Tudor style buildings along the coast south of Cape Town.
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I think the middle building could be a toilet block. If you zoom in there is a sign on the door not that I can read it, and probably no help at all.
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The slight slope at the edge of the lawn looks more like a bowling green than a cricket pitch to me. I have a photo of my grandfather bowling, and he is dressed in a similar style to some of the men on the right, with the flat cap! So I'd agree with a late 1920s date.
Yes Jam I'm convinced it's a bowling green. Thanks for that.
Carol
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Not much to go on, so I'll just add my thoughts to provoke discussion:
1. I think it's more like 1930's -did ladies in 1920 have skirts as short as the two walking towards the door?
2. It's big to be a bowls club? Plus cafe ? Plus other buildings? maybe a Golf Club?
3. "Something" abut the scenery, trees, cliffs says "Not UK" to me - Australia, NZ, SA ?
4. No-one is dressed for bowls - but dressed well - wedding party, funeral or similar ?
5 .Is there some writing on a sign below the window on the middel building to the right
Yes I believe it is more likely to be 1930s when I see the ladies' hemlines...it is inside a folder and taken by Harry Abba a Hull photographer but the hilly landscape doesn't fit with a Hull location but probably taken on the East Coast. Thanks for your thoughts.
Carol
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here is a close up scan.
Carol
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and another shot.
Carol
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I think it is a works/factory sports and social club, if it were a private club it would need to be in an affluent area.
Mike
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Thanks Mike...that's a good point and something to consider.
Carol
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There are two more signs on the railings to the right of the steps, but I can't make them out.
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This is the sort of setting that made me think S A.
http://www.constantiabowlingclub.co.za/
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There are two more signs on the railings to the right of the steps, but I can't make them out.
I think this one says Ladies Toilets but it's hard to make out Pat.
Carol
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I think the sign on the right near the gents shoulder may say LADIES. Something like this..
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jej/
Doesn't help location though.
Cas
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This is the sort of setting that made me think S A.
http://www.constantiabowlingclub.co.za/
Thanks for that...it seems to confirm the idea that it's a bowling club doesn't it.
Carol
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There are also lots of buildings like that in England, so I'd think there rather than SA.
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Yes Jan definitely in the UK...it's in a photographic folder by Harry Abba a Hull based photographer.
Carol
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If it is for crown green bowls, that restricts it to northern England, the Midlands and North Wales. The surrounding landscape would be consistent with parts of those areas, though not of course Hull.
However, having looked at some photos of bowls club pavilions, I wonder if this is perhaps a bit big - plus, no-one seems to be dressed for bowls. So I'm wondering if the main building might be something like a refreshment pavilion in a public park which happens to have a bowling green in it, and then the smaller pavilion behind might perhaps be for a bowls club which happens to be based there.
Arthur
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It might be worth contacting Hull History Centre to ask if they hold any of Harry Abba's photos.
http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/
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If it is for crown green bowls, that restricts it to northern England, the Midlands and North Wales. The surrounding landscape would be consistent with parts of those areas, though not of course Hull.
However, having looked at some photos of bowls club pavilions, I wonder if this is perhaps a bit big - plus, no-one seems to be dressed for bowls. So I'm wondering if the main building might be something like a refreshment pavilion in a public park which happens to have a bowling green in it, and then the smaller pavilion behind might perhaps be for a bowls club which happens to be based there.
Arthur
Thanks for your input Arthur and yes...I would expect it to be on the East Coast....a park seems feasible doesn't it. I did wonder if it was being used as a Polling Station.
Carol
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I like that idea Carol. I thought they were all queuing to go to the toilet ;D ;D ;D
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Well they are not suitably dressed for sport are they ;D
Carol
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I'm pretty sure the small sign above the door on the extension on the right says "Tea Room"
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You could be right but I thought there were too many letters for Tea Room but I could be wrong.
Thanks for your suggestion.
Carol
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I've had another look Carol and still think it may be "Tea Room". But would be interesting to see if anyone else can make it out. (The extension on the right I meant was that near the hills in the photo).
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Yes it is on the right...not sure it helps though. I doubt this one will be solved ::)
Carol
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I think on the far right it says 'Tea Room' but what does the sign say on the building next to it? - 'Lades Toilet' or 'Lounge ....' Is that another sign on the door or a letter box.
It does look as though this is in a park somewhere, but where????
edited - I wonder if it could be in the grounds of a stately home?
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It might be worth contacting Hull History Centre to ask if they hold any of Harry Abba's photos.
http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/
Any thoughts on the History Centre?
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Sorry Nanny Jan for missing your post...the History Centre is quite a good option. I do have an extensive collection of his cabinet cards but no postcards.
Carol
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I think on the far right it says 'Tea Room' but what does the sign say on the building next to it? - 'Lades Toilet' or 'Lounge ....' Is that another sign on the door or a letter box.
It does look as though this is in a park somewhere, but where????
edited - I wonder if it could be in the grounds of a stately home?
Ah yes...thanks for that Pat, I never spotted the Tea Room one...New reading glasses me thinks ::) ;D ;D I think the other one says Gents.
Carol
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Wonder if the middle sign says "Ladies Rooms". Though I'm not as sure of that as I was when I posted about the Tea Room sign.
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I missed those signs completely first time, but with the enhanced image now, I think the middle one could well be Ladies Rooms.
Rather than focussing on the buildings, though, I'm wondering if we can get anything from the setting. What towns (or stately homes?) have a park with that kind of pavilion, and with the rocky hillside in the background? And the context too: assuming it was by Harry Abba, might he have gone on a charabanc trip with, say, a church outing, to record the proceedings? And if so, where might a day trip from Hull have ended up - other than back in Hull, obviously ::)?
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I see from bmd that Harry Abba remarried in 1936, could it be somewhere he went on honeymoon :-\
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That's a good suggestion Arthur as this one was with a batch of Charabanc outing photos of The Band of Hope and Temperance Society in Hull dated late 1920s and early 1930s. I may take a look at newspaper articles for the society as I know they travelled a lot.
Carol
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The scenery looks a bit like The Peak District which wouldn't be too far distant from Hull
Chris
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I see from bmd that Harry Abba remarried in 1936, could it be somewhere he went on honeymoon :-\
Rosie...There are several postcard photos like this that were in H.A. wallets among the Band of Hope photos so I feel it that he may have processed them rather than photographed them, or maybe he went along to capture them on their outings.
Carol
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Maybe that is how he met his younger wife ;D ;D
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Maybe that is how he met his younger wife ;D ;D
Oooo!!...There's a song in there somewhere..."Love on The Rocks"........
Carol
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Maybe that is how he met his younger wife ;D ;D
Oooo!!...There's a song in there somewhere..."Love on The Rocks"........
Carol
;D ;D ;D ;D
Rosie
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The scenery looks a bit like The Peak District which wouldn't be too far distant from Hull
Chris
Thanks for that Chris...it could be worth a look.
Carol
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Just a quick thought, most stately homes didn't open to the public until after the second world war,so probably somewhere else.
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Good point Pat.
Carol
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Still looking.... ::) ;D
Carol
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I was looking at this again, and wondering about the sign at the front of the building - in the second picture in this post:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764229.msg6159826#msg6159826
Carol - if the original is still to hand, might there be any chance of a very high-res scan of it, please? We seem to have worked out the signs to the side, but I don't think this one has been deciphered yet.
Edit: was it really 3 years ago?
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Wow...where did that three years go :o I always wondered if it could say "Polling Station" I will see if I can find it.
Be right back.
Carol
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I've looked everywhere Arthur but I can't find it, I was sure that I had put back where it came from as it is part of a batch from the same source :-\ I have five postcard albums with roughly 500 postcards in each and various Victorian Albums with CdVs and cabinet cards, besides that, I have boxes of old photos, so I have given up for now, i will most likely find it when I am looking for something else ::) Thanks for your interest ;)
Carol
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Not to worry - if it does turn up, it'll be interesting to have another go at it.
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Not to worry - if it does turn up, it'll be interesting to have another go at it.
Ok thanks Arthur, as it was 3 years ago, I'm wondering if I may have left it on my All-In-One scanner that I disliked, I donated it to the charity shop ::)
Carol
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Well Carol, it’s taken four years but it looks like this could be the “The Riverside Tea Gardens” and Wireless Concert Hall, Betts-y-Coed!
https://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/archive/6230271/details/504
Trish
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:o
At first I thought YES!!! But now I'm not so sure. The design is the same - but the dimensions are wrong. Carol's pavilion is much longer.
Unless the Riverside was extended at a later date... ???
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I agree there's been changes/extensions but it looks to be the same building.
Allowing for corrosion on the hills beyond they appear to be the same shape too.
Annie
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I think its definitely the same building. As Annie says, it has been extended. Look carefully at Carol's photo and you can see the lines in the roof where extensions have been added at either end
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Well Carol, it’s taken four years but it looks like this could be the “The Riverside Tea Gardens” and Wireless Concert Hall, Betts-y-Coed!
https://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/archive/6230271/details/504
Trish
Wow....Well spotted Trish :o how on earth did you find it after four years. Thanks so much, Great job. I never expected this one to be found, I thought it probably didn't exist anymore :-\
Carol
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Trish, you are so clever! :)
Can you please tell us how you found it?
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Well done, Trish. Have you spent the last 4 years searching for it non-stop?
I'm sure the picture is of the same building, but it's still intriguing. I can't find any other pictures of it, or any trace of it on a map, or anything about the Wireless Concert Hall. My best guess is that it might have been where the golf club is now - according to its website it existed briefly from 1912 to 1914, and was revived in 1977. So still a bit puzzling.
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Considering the clothing the people are wearing this photo looks like it might have been taken in the 40s/50s, though I can't see much detail on my monitor, so may be mistaken. This may already have been mentioned earlier in the thread so apologies if that is the case.
The building must have been used for different purposes at various times.
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Like Arthur I've been searching maps etc and can't find anything useful.
It is certainly the same building.
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I've been having a little pootle around the area.
This looks similar but the hills have more trees on them today:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qak/
Having made that suggestion, there are several similar looking landscapes around Betws-y-Coed. :)
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I haven't been there for ages. We used to stop off at B-y-C to view the falls on school trips. I remember a building like that (but smaller) just above the falls. I think it was a tea rooms and gift shop.
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North Wales Weekly News, 8 July 1926
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North Wales Weekly News 02 October 1958
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A Bowls Club? A local park has a similarly styled building for the bowls club; probably developed just post WW1.
It seems there was a bowling green there
North Wales Weekly News 02 June 1927
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Good corroboration there, JenB - but it's still strange that there don't seem to be any other pictures of it.
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Well done Jen and thank you so much for taking the time, it certainly proves our gut reaction that it was a bowls club or similar ;D
You are so good a this!
Carol
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Here’s a link for another image from 1910 when it was called ‘Riverside Gardens’ , but still no further clues as to where the exact location was.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qam/
Carol and Ruskie, it was purely by chance I came across the first image, I was looking for something else at the time!
Arthurk- no... I haven’t spent the last four years on the internet searching. My brain is a mine of useless information and I remembered the image Carol posted long ago 😉
JenB - great newspaper articles, really interesting to read.
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Great find Trish, well done after all this time ;D
Following up on Jen's newspaper articles, I spotted this, the cafe was destroyed by fire in 1933.
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And a few days later the owner was found dead :o
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Great find Trish, well done after all this time ;D
Following up on Jen's newspaper articles, I spotted this, the cafe was destroyed by fire in 1933.
Aw how sad...thanks for that Jool, I have been thinking that I hadn't seen you around for a while, good to hear from you.
Thanks for the extra info. The photo was believed to have been taken in the 1920s 8)
Thanks also for info Trish...it all helps ;D
Carol
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Nice to see you again Jools, hope you are doing okay.
Great information from the newspapers. I bet it made a magnificent bonfire, I wonder what caused the fire.
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What a sad ending to what looks like a lovely place.
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Such a shame about the fire. That knocks my 40s dating of the outfits well and truly on the head. ;D
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Such a shame about the fire. That knocks my 40s dating of the outfits well and truly on the head. ;D
I have to admit that I was thinking 40s, too! There's a lot of calf being flashed for 1930s skirts.
It is a real shame about the fire (and the death of the owner). Very sad.
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Ooops, my mistake I think it says 30s on the back, I can't check at the moment as we are packed ready to move.
Thanks for pointing it out.
Carol
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Hi Carol, you originally thought 1920's and said no clues on the back of the card.
Yes I wondered if it could be Crown Green Bowling too...I would guess at 1920s for a date. It is a postcard with no clues on the back.
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What I meant was is that several of us were out with our estimate of the era (as being 1940s), as we now know that the café burnt down in 1933. :)
Edit: Unless...the photo discovered by Annie is pre-fire, and then the place was re-built (larger), and the photo is indeed après 1933...
But then we would expect to find references to it in later news articles. Unless it had a different name... Hmmm...
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Hi Carol, you originally thought 1920's and said no clues on the back of the card.
Yes I wondered if it could be Crown Green Bowling too...I would guess at 1920s for a date. It is a postcard with no clues on the back.
You are correct Jen, I didn't make myself clear, it came with group of other photos of charabanc outings and they were date 1920s and some others that were dated 1930s. Senility creeping in I think ::) ;D I blame being in long term lockdown. ;D
Carol
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Yes I believe it is more likely to be 1930s when I see the ladies' hemlines...it is inside a folder and taken by Harry Abba a Hull photographer but the hilly landscape doesn't fit with a Hull location but probably taken on the East Coast. Thanks for your thoughts.
Carol
There was a series of adverts in the Hull Daily Mail in May and June 1933 for trips to Llandudno including tea at the Riverside Gardens, Bettws-y-Coed. Maybe the Hull photographer you mentioned was on this trip.
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That is excellent Jools, really pleased to see that. Yes I remember it now! It was was among photos relating to the Band of Hope in Baker Street, Hull. There is also a group photo of people on "Giant's Causeway"
Carol
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Well done everyone.....after 4 years, success.
We have recently moved to Llandudno so after the lockdown restrictions are eased, I will go to Betws-y-Coed and see if I can find some information on the history of the tea rooms and where they were located.
Chris
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I thought I'd seen somewhere in one of the cuttings that the Riverside Gardens were opposite the Gwydyr Hotel. I can't see it now so maybe imagined it, but the cuttings make clear that they were owned by the same man, and the hotel had a hand in the catering in the gardens.
I wonder if the site might be the area bounded by the A5, Station Road and the railway. At the A5 end it's immediately opposite the hotel, and on Google streetview you can even see a gate in the wall there with 'Gwydyr Hotel' on it, suggesting it's still regarded as the hotel's garden.
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Great input Chris and Arthur...I really appreciate your time and input and have made notes :D
Carol