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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Irene B on Wednesday 01 February 17 16:31 GMT (UK)

Title: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Irene B on Wednesday 01 February 17 16:31 GMT (UK)
I am looking for information about Counselletta Smith who married Henry James in Croydon, Surrey in 1915.  Henry was a widower by 1939.  I can't find any birth or baptism record for Counselletta (I have checked spelling variations) and I am not sure where to look next.  Henry was born in 1890 according to 1939 National Register, and on his WW1 papers he was 24 when he enlisted in 1916, so I assume she was roughly the same age.


There are other Counsellette, Counciletti etc Smiths born in different periods, but I have no idea how -or if - they are connected.
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 01 February 17 16:37 GMT (UK)
Do you have Counselletta/Henry's marriage cert? If not then that hopefully would give you  Counselletta's father's name and occupation.

JJ
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Irene B on Wednesday 01 February 17 18:33 GMT (UK)
Marriage cert is in the post, hasn't arrived yet.  I am puzzled because there is nothing in the birth index that seems to match.
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 01 February 17 18:45 GMT (UK)
Perhaps she was recorded under a different christian name but the family preferred to call her Counselletta. Just a shame her surname is Smith  ??? Can't see a death for her............

Hopefully the marriage cert will help, please let us know how you get on.  :)

JJ
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 01 February 17 20:33 GMT (UK)
What were the names and years of birth of their children if any.  Was Henry living alone in 1939  :-\
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 01 February 17 20:38 GMT (UK)
Would this fit  :-\

Death June qtr 1933 
Cansalelte James    age 39   
Greenwich    1d   833   
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Irene B on Friday 03 February 17 11:20 GMT (UK)
Thank you for spotting her death!

Marriage cert still hasn't arrived, but the children I know of are:
Oceon born 1912, Charles 1914, Henry 1917 (all listed on their fathers Army papers), from 1939 Register I have Mary Ann 1920, Violet 1922, Henrietta 1927, Alfred 1924  and the family story is that Consoletta died after giving birth to Patsy Rose who also died.
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 03 February 17 12:25 GMT (UK)
If only 'travellers'  registered their births  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: smileyface471686 on Friday 10 February 17 18:11 GMT (UK)
my great grandmother was born Conceletta Scarrott in 1863 but she also went under the name of Smith which was her mothers maiden name and Brinkley her husbands name. Her daughter, my grandmother was also called Ocean born 1882 likeone of your Counseys children. Gt granny Counseys name was also spelt Counseyletty, counseyhetty, counsey.....
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Irene B on Friday 10 February 17 18:15 GMT (UK)
I finally got the marriage certificate, Counselette's father was Charles Smith

Does that help to fit her into your family?

Thanks for the reply.

Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: smileyface471686 on Friday 10 February 17 18:39 GMT (UK)
i had a cousin Counsey, her father was Charles Smith but wrong time frame!
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Irene B on Friday 10 February 17 19:02 GMT (UK)
Thanks anyway
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: heywood on Friday 10 February 17 19:15 GMT (UK)
I finally got the marriage certificate, Counselette's father was Charles Smith

Does that help to fit her into your family?

Thanks for the reply.

Hello,
Do you have the witness names from the marriage?

Heywood
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Irene B on Friday 10 February 17 20:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Smileyface

I just realised why the name Scarrott rang a bell, in 1901 the family of Henry James are on the census at Ilford, Essex and there are lots of Smiths there, and on the next page is your Scarrott family.

Hi Heywood

the witnesses are :  J. Aldridge and H. Richardson
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Kevin61 on Saturday 18 February 17 21:28 GMT (UK)
Hi IreneB,
we are tracing my husbands family - gm Councelette Brazil ggm Phoebe Smith gggf Charles Smith of
Croyden Surrey. Phoebe married Albert Brazil 1915. Phoebes sister Alice married Harry Scott 1914 both in Christ Church Croyden.
Could we be of the same branch?
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Irene B on Sunday 19 February 17 17:02 GMT (UK)
Could be the same branch, we know very little about the Smith side since Councelette Smith died when Violet was just 10.  All I know is what was on the marriage cert i.e. father Charles Smith
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Kevin61 on Sunday 19 February 17 19:24 GMT (UK)
Thanks - we are having trouble too! Smith is such a common name.... as is Brazil so it seems.
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Kevin61 on Monday 27 February 17 07:22 GMT (UK)
Have found a baptism for Kounsilette Smith 15th October 1893, birthdate November 20th 1982 - father Charles, mother Anseleti ????? at Christ Church, Battersea.
Could this be the Counsallette we are looking for?
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Kay99 on Monday 27 February 17 08:10 GMT (UK)
Followed this thread with interest and that does look a good find Kevin ;D

Their location at the time of the baptism is listed as Van - the Arches, Cabut??  Road with Gurley's Yard being crossed out   Charles was a labourer and I think there is a typo with birth year which is 1892.

Kay

Added extract of the names
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Kevin61 on Monday 27 February 17 08:34 GMT (UK)
Ooops - my typo transferring info. Sorry
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Kayleigh1996 on Monday 04 May 20 21:00 BST (UK)
my great grandmother was born Conceletta Scarrott in 1863 but she also went under the name of Smith which was her mothers maiden name and Brinkley her husbands name. Her daughter, my grandmother was also called Ocean born 1882 likeone of your Counseys children. Gt granny Counseys name was also spelt Counseyletty, counseyhetty, counsey.....

Hi,

Please get in touch, I believe we are related down the line somewhere.
You say your great grandmother is counceletta scarrott, this is also my fathers great grandmother. Ocean scarrott your grandmother was my grandads auntie.

Kind regards,

Kayleigh
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Leggetp on Thursday 07 May 20 22:06 BST (UK)
Hello!

Iím not sure how old this post is but Iím trying to do my family tree. My mother is Counseletta (*) 1958, her mother was Counseletta Smith 1939, her mother was Counseletta Cooper 1915, her mother was Ocean Scarrott 1883, her mother Councileta Scarrott 1863 and her mother was Rhoda Smith 1846. All their surnames being their maiden name. Are any of these Counseys related to the one/ones on this thread?? Any help would be very much appreciated.

With regards to the beginning of this post my Grandmother Counsey Smith married a Roy not Henry but my Grandfather Royís dad was called Henry!

Thanks,
Pamela.



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Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: smileyface471686 on Tuesday 02 June 20 09:09 BST (UK)
Your grandmother Counsey Smith born 1939 who married Roy Gudgeon was my 1st cousin. Your gt grandmother Counsey Cooper was my mum Betsys sister. :) xx Betty Golding
Title: Re: Counselletta Smith
Post by: Leggetp on Wednesday 03 June 20 16:52 BST (UK)
Oh wow your the first person Iíve found, thank you so much for replying! I was actually showing my mother how far Iíd gotten in doing the family tree and she was saying how she remembered your mum, she actually went to her funeral in 2007 as she remembered they had to go over the Dartford Bridge as they were travelling from Essex. Iíve actually found a webpage about your mum on Romany Genes with pictures including my great grandmother Counseletta Cooper, was that you who put them on there as Iíd love to know who they are.

I would of messaged you personally but Iíve not made enough posts to message people to their inbox! x