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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: Throth on Thursday 09 February 17 17:51 GMT (UK)
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We have a problem with births for the children of Thomas Brown, miller, from the Blair Atholl OPR:
William Brown, miller, Margaret McIntosh in Haugh of Blair Isabella 4 Feb 1834
(99% certain that this is an error by the registrar)
Thomas Brown, miller, Margaret McIntosh in Haugh of Blair Thomas 17 Apr 1836
Thomas Brown, miller, Margaret McIntosh in Haugh of Blair Jean 1 Apr 1838
Thomas Brown Ann McIntosh in Dunkeld parish Peter 20 Jun 1839 (Dunkeld OPR)
Thomas Brown Ann McIntosh in Clunie parish John 4 Feb 1841 (Clunie OPR)
Thomas Brown Ann McIntosh in Blair Mill Margaret 12 Jan 1846
Thomas Brown Ann McIntosh in Blair Mill Ann 13 Mar 1850
Thomas Brown Ann McIntosh in Blair Mill Thomas 20 Aug 1853
Thomas Brown Ann McIntosh in Blair Atholl James 15 Nov 1855
At first glance one would assume that Margaret McIntosh died and Thomas remarried, and there are marriage entries in Clunie parish which match:
Thomas Brown and Margaret McIntosh, marriage 29 Nov 1830, Clunie OPR
Thomas Brown and Ann McIntosh, marriage 3 May 1839, Clunie OPR
But census return for 1841 and 1851 show no trace of Isabella, Thomas (1) and Jean.
Also The 1855 birth certificate states that Thomas, miller, was born Saucher, Collace parish, around 1817, and would fit with a baptism 29 Jul 1817 (Collace OPR) giving his father as Peter, which is the name of his eldest son by Ann McIntosh. Assuming that this is correct, then he would have been 13 years old in 1830 - rather young to marry Margaret McIntosh.
So we seem to have two Thomas Browns, both millers in Blair Atholl, both married in Clunie parish and both married to a McIntosh. Surely they must be related in some way.
Comments / suggestions appreciated.
Throth
(Ann McIntosh was born in Alvie, Inverness-shire, which doesn't seem to help either!)
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Thomas Brown Ann McIntosh in Blair Atholl James 15 Nov 1855
Throth, the 1855 birth cert you mention should show (apart from marriage date and where parents were born/age) how many children the couple had - alive/deceased, girls/boys. How does this compare to the list of names you have there from the OPRs?
Have you tried searching for their deaths (the two Thomases) to see what they say re their parents?
Monica :)
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It states 4 boys and 2 girls living, which accounts for all those listed with baptisms, also 1 boy and 1 girl deceased. They could easily fit the gaps before and after Margaret's birth.
Not much help there either! Thanks anyway.
Can't see any MIs and the census return don't seem to show Thomas Brown and Margaret McIntosh.
We'll have a look at John Kerr's 'Atholl Experience', next time in Perth.
Throth
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Throth, I think you have Thomas and Ann in censuses from 1841?
How about this entry for Margaret with children in 1841:
Margaret Brown 30 born outside of the county
William Brown 5
Isabell Brown 6
Thomas Brown 4
Jean Brown 3
Address: Perth Street, Blairgowrie Perth
Monica
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There is this possible 1851 census entry in Blairgowrie:
Mrs Miln widow grocer b. Alva Stirlingshire
Jean Brown 13 b. Inverness
Margaret Miln 6 b. Blair Atholl https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1FX-DYL
Helen Miln 2 b. Blairgowrie
There are marriage banns between a Margaret McIntosh and a James Miln in 1842 as a possibility in Blairgowrie and Airlie, Angus.
Monica
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That looks very promising.
The 1841 census return for Clunie (Perth) shows the family with Peter and John. So more evidence for two families.
We were trying to find Ann's death using Brown/McIntosh and then cross-referencing the location back to census returns for Thomas and Ann. A long process and nothing obvious.
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Possible death for her in 1878 in Newtyle, Angus. Ann Brown/McIntosh aged 62.
Monica
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Thomas Brown is in Newtyle in 1881:
Thomas Brown 63 Farmer & Miller Of 90 Acres Arable Emp. 5 Men 1 Woman b. Perthshire
Peter Brown 41
Thomas Brown 27
Ann Brown 31
Ann Miller 18 house maid
Address: Nether Mill, Newtyle
Monica
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Possible will & testament entry for Thomas Brown on SP:
Thomas Brown - 12/11/1883 Farmer, Nethermill, near Meigle, d. 14/05/1883 at Nethermill aforesaid, testate
Forfar Sheriff Court
SC47/40/50
Monica
Added: From SP too, a likely death entry for a Thomas Brown, 66, in Newtyle in 1883.
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We had a look at the Clunie (Perth) OPR microfilms and both marriages 1830 and 1839 just say that both the groom and the bride were from that parish.
Thanks for tracking one of the families to Newtyle.
The 1881 Newtyle census was more useful.
46 Nether mill
Thomas Brown widower born Perthshire
Peter his son born Kingussie
Thomas his son born Blair Atholl
Ann his daughter born Blair Atholl
So this is definitely the correct family
And at 57 Newbiggin Cottage
John Brown head marr 40 farm servant and miller born Clunie
Mary wife 29 born North Shields
Mary daughter 8 scholar born North Shields
James son 6 scholar born North Shields
Isabella daughter 1 born North Shields
which would appear to be Thomas's son and his family
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The death certs from 1878 and 1883 should hopefully help you confirm Thomas and Ann's parents.
Monica :)
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Hi there my name is Sarah Brown I have been researching my family tree and believe Thomas Brown who you are discussing to be my 4th great grandfather, his son James born 1875 moved to South Shields where he was a fireman seaman, I still live in South Shields, sorry to jump in on your thread I just couldnt help myself.
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@ Throth, milling very much ran in families and they had to be mobile to follow their trade, there was a James Brown of Linwood Mill, near Paisley in 1827 where Fairburn's "ventilated bucket" was first installed to the paddle-wheel, this improved the performance of the wheel.
Thomas Brown would doubtless know what this was! ;D
Bests,
Skoosh.