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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: scault on Monday 13 February 17 09:08 GMT (UK)
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Morning all,
My x 2 paternal Grandfather was a Charles Frost,
It took me many visits to the Bedford and Northampton record centers over the years to finally find this man's marriage to Margret Bull in 1820 in Woburn. Charles Frost is in fact from Derbyshire.
What I would dearly love to find out is
1, was this man working in leighton buzzard before his marriage and who for ?
2, Did his wife run away from her village in culworth Northampton to be with Charles.
Charles and Margret Bull both 1800 marry in Woburn church, they appear to be living in potsgrove and both their eldest son charles and daughter Mary are baptised 1822 and 1824 there under the surname of Frost. It is only when the family are on the 1841 census for St Johnswood London he starts to use his mothers surname of AULT and all his later children are baptised AULT instead of Frost. I know something must of happened and I need a Detective to go back in time and investigate. ( if only ).
I think Margret ran away to be with him ?
Any ideas please
Sue Ault ( should really be Frost ) ??? :o ::)
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The marriage is on the IGI at www.familysearch.org as being on 12 Oct 1821, not 1820, at Woburn. Who were the witnesses and what were the parishes of residence shown as?
A bit of a coincidence that in 1851 there were two more Ault families on the same page. Ault is an uncommon name. I don't believe in coincidences!
Why do you think he could have been working in Leighton Buzzard?
David
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Hi. You can't really assume that there was a surname switch at a particular point in time. What you have is a series of "snapshots" and there is nothing to say that Charles did not rock back and forth between the two surnames. He might just have used both of them.
Did he have any siblings? What did they do?
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As per the Beds FHS names index CD his abode was Leighton Buzzard at time of marriage.
He seems to have got buried in the name of Charles Frost age 52 on 26 July 1854 living at Torrington Mews, Paddington
You've been here before....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703791.0
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I am looking for a fresh perspective an idea from anyone that I can possibly follow. On his marriage it states from Leighton Buzzard, but he is from Derbyshire. This makes me think he may have worked for someone possibly a land owner/ farmer. I know his wife Margret comes from a small Village called Culworth. Years ago I visited the Northampton records office and remember seeing a document I'm sure that mentioned a charles Frost and the Bull family. I just wished I had taken notice at the time.
Yes he died using the surname of frost and his wife died using Frost-ault.
I know people change their names for many reasons, but I have a sneaky feeling about it.
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We can only make suggestions when we are possession of the facts. The earlier thread which John found fizzled out with unanswered questions. So to avoid the same happening with this thread I repeat: who were the witnesses to the Woburn marriage, as they may provide a clue, and have you considered a possible connection between the Ault families who lived a couple of doors from each other in 1851*?
In 1837 Charles appears to have been a milkman.
David
* I'm sure there is a connection. In both 1851 and 1861 William Bull, Margaret's nephew was living with her. In 1861 his birthplace was given as Portland Town (later - a chapelry in Marylebone, Middlesex). In 1851 a couple of the other Aults also gave Portland Town as their birthplaces.
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There's a Charles Ault of Shewsbury Shropshire that married in Leighton Buzzard by licence on 18 Mar 1793 to Elizabeth Bates, they baptised daughter Elizabeth there, abode Heath&Reach, on 9 Jan 1797.
This Charles Ault of Sand House, Leighton Buzzard gave surety on the marriage allegation for John Tomkins, widower to Ann Butcher, widow, both of Heath&Reach, on 3 Apr 1804.
As per the Northampton Mercury of 3 Oct 1813, there's a notice to the debtors & creditors of the late Charles Ault, deceased, late of the Old Peacock Inn, called the Sand House in Leighton Buzzard ..... however I cannot find his burial... but the National Archives has his will ref PROB 11/1542/398 dated 28 Mar 1813, it'll cost you £3.45 for a downloaded copy.
There's a burial of Hannah Ault at Potsgrove on 4 Sept 1836 aged 74, abode was Sandhouse.
Perhaps he has link to your Charles Ault/Frost or his parents?
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Good finds John.
The will is on Ancestry, Charles Ault of the Old Peacock Inn Sand House, Heath and Reach in the parish of Leighton Buzzard. I've had a quick look at it and his nephew Charles Frost son of Henry Frost was bequeathed £100 to be paid to him when he reached the age of 21. I'll have a closer look later tonight when I get back from my appointment with a barman.
He mentions Hannah his "acknowledged wife, late Hannah Tompkins widow" and her children Thomas Tompkins and Elizabeth Tompkins, and his daughter Elizabeth Ault. He also mentions his sisters Mary and Sarah.
It wasn't unknown for beneficiaries to change their name to that of the person who had bequeathed them money.
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The 1813 will for Charles Ault mentions nephews Charles Ault and Charles Ffrost :-)
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Have a good evening David...
So it looks like Charles Frost was perhaps working for his uncle Charles Ault of Leighton Buzzard.
FYI .. Beds Archives online database has a reference to Charles Ault (BO1333) dated 1805 regarding a Covenant for common land in Heath & Reach & another to Hannah Ault (BO1334) dated 1814 regarding an Agreement on the same area.
Cheers John
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Sorry yes
the families in torrington mews are all related
they are the children of charles and margret
again sorry i cant always reply straight away
sue
I will check the banns but i think they used the same peeps as others
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So it looks like Charles Frost was perhaps working for his uncle Charles Ault of Leighton Buzzard.
I agree John, although between 1813 when Charles Ault died and 1824 possibly working for Charles' widow Hannah. More likely I feel than working for a local farmer
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The marriage is on the IGI at www.familysearch.org as being on 12 Oct 1821, not 1820, at Woburn. Who were the witnesses and what were the parishes of residence shown as?
From the BFHS transcript:
12 Oct 1821
Charles Frost, of Leighton Buzzard
Margaret Bull [no abode in transcription]
Witnesses: Jonas West, Wm. Hall; by banns
William Hall was a witness at numerous other marriages. I can't find any other references to Jonas West in the Woburn parish transcripts nor in the BFHS surname index.
There's only one other marriage in the Woburn transcripts for 'Frost' but it could be completely unrelated. There are no burials or baptisms.
Marriage:
21 Nov 1800
Wm Frost, of Newport Pagnell, BKM
Eliz Boys [no abode in transcription]
And just in case Sue hasn't already seen this...
The Sandhouse Inn Heath and Reach
http://bedsarchives.bedford.gov.uk/CommunityArchives/HeathandReach/TheSandhouseInnHeathAndReach.aspx
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Really please is this all true
please don't go off at me not giving much information. It is all in boxes as upstairs is being sorted and decorated for my other half who recently under went a tumor removal on her spine. So it isnt me just repeating a request honest.
This all sounds so feasible and the names Mary AULT Charles Frosts mother maybe the sister of charles Ault who left the will.
sue :D
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I am ever so excited and don't know what to say to you all
Thank you
sue x
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This all sounds so feasible and the names Mary AULT Charles Frosts mother maybe the sister of charles Ault who left the will.
As Charles Ault referred to Charles Frost son of Henry Frost as his nephew, and mentioned a sister Mary, that's my interpretation too. Mary Frost née Ault was Charles Ault's sister.
Do you subscribe to Ancestry where you can view the will yourself? If not I'll go through it and pull out vital bits. It goes on a bit so I won't do a full transcription
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Yes I am on Ancestry
I will have a look now
sue
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When & where did Henry Frost marry Mary Ault ?
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1774 brailsford derbyshire
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The will contains a bequest to Charles ?Cocking? son of Mary ?Cocking? Cockayne? of Blensford(Brailsford)? Derbyshire. I think Brailsford may have been spelt in the will how Charles thought it was spelt, but it's the only place in Derbyshire that I can find starting with B and ending ford, other than Bamford which it definitely isn't.
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Other names in the will dated 29 August 1812, proved 23 March 1813
...my nephew Charles Ault son of my late brother Thomas Ault the sum of sixty pounds...
...Elizabeth Tompkins, Charles Ault and Charles Frost were all under 21.........
...Charles Cocking was over 21...
...all his freehold and copyhold estates in Heath and Reach to his daughter Elizabeth Ault...
...Executors John Stopp farmer of Potsgrove and James Clarke innholder of Leighton Buzzard...
...should his daughter Elizabeth die before the age of 21 her share to be split between any living children of his sisters Mary and Sarah...
David
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Attached is the notice from Northampton Mercury 3 Oct 1812, naming the two executors.
Who is the Hannah his "acknowledged wife, late Hannah Tompkins widow" with children Elizabeth & Thomas ??? .
Elizabeth Tompkins of Heath was baptised 23 Aug 1795 at Leighton Buzzard, daughter of Francis & Hannah Tompkins. Francis Tompkins married Hannah Wood at LB by licence on 9 Feb 1791. They also baptised Thomas on 28 Nov 1791 & John 18 Nov 1792. If this is her when did husband Francis die?
Next ... if Charles had Hannah as wife in 1812 as per will, then where's the death of his wife Elizabeth ne Bates that he married at LB in 1793
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As I can't find a Charles Ault and Hannah Tompkins marriage, and given the odd wording "acknowledged wife", (what's wrong with the usual "my beloved wife Hannah"?) I seriously wonder if they were actually married. I suspect not.
If this is her when did husband Francis die?
Buried 1 Jan 1830 age 73 in Leighton Buzzard???
Nah, they weren't married and Hannah wasn't a widow. That's my somewhat cynical take on the situation! Not that this affects Susan's direct line.
David
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Could the burial of Chas HOLT on 16 Sept 1812 at Potsgrove be that for Charles AULT ?
& then the burial of Eliz wife of Chas Holt on 11 Feb 1807 at Potsgrove is his 'first' wife.
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In which case his daughter Elizabeth Ault baptised 1797 was by his wife Elizabeth, rather than his acknowledged wife Hannah.
I can't find a marriage for Charles Holt and Elizabeth in Beds, so I think your suspicion is probably right, John.
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Thank you all
really really appreciate all your hard work.
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On family search there is a marriage of a Charles Ault and an Elizabeth Bates 28th march 1793 leighton buzzard. This could hopefully be charles Ault in question.
Sue
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Sue, if it helps at all, the surname index for the 1793 marriage has Charles' abode as Shrewsbury, Shropshire/Salop.
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Ta
I will see if i can check it out
Although this charles ault isn't my direct line, his information has been priceless to me.
When you are told by an elderly aunt at a very young age our surname changed, and as an adult trying to find out why they sometimes just used ault. Then on other census they swap anand add in the frost surname, well I just have needed to find out. With all you all searching for me you have made me so happy now, and I can stop thinking bad things about my charles frost the nephew,
sue :-* ;D :D ;)
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There's a Charles Ault of Shewsbury Shropshire that married in Leighton Buzzard by licence on 18 Mar 1793 to Elizabeth Bates, they baptised daughter Elizabeth there, abode Heath&Reach, on 9 Jan 1797.
This Charles Ault of Sand House, Leighton Buzzard gave surety on the marriage allegation for John Tompkins, widower to Ann Butcher, widow, both of Heath&Reach, on 3 Apr 1804.
This info was given out earlier in the thread
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I've been thinking more about this family, since Susan posted about them on a FB group:
- Mary Frost, Charles' mother, was buried in Brailsford on 11 Nov 1810 aged 54, wife of Henry. Henry Frost aged 60 was buried in Brailsford just days earlier on 2 Nov 1810 aged 60. So Charles was orphaned at age 10. Could he have been taken in by his uncle Charles Ault in Leighton Buzzard? I think it's quite possible.
- So if my hypothesis is correct, at the time of his uncle's death in Sept 1812 Charles Frost was already living in Leighton Buzzard, and probably took a job locally. I don't think he necessarily would have worked for whoever ran the Old Peacock Inn after Charles Ault's death.
- Charles Frost was baptised on 27 Oct 1800 at Brailsford Derbyshire, so was obviously born prior to this date. His uncle left him £100 in his will to be paid when Charles reached the age of 21 i.e. probably shortly before 27 Oct 1821. He married on 12 Oct 1821, probably immediately he reached the age of 21. His first two children baptised in Beds in 1822 and 1824 were in the name of Frost. The family then moved down to London, where a number of children were baptised in the name of Ault, from 1827 onwards. In 1827 Charles was a labourer, in 1837 a milkman, in 1841 a cab driver (Ault), in 1851 a labourer (Ault), and posthumously in 1858 a cabman/cab proprietor. His death and burial in 1854 were both recorded as Frost. The first record using the surname Ault was in 1827, so it doesn't look as though the inheritance received in 1821 was a factor in him changing his surname.
So I think we've established that his uncle lived in Leighton Buzzard, which is why he was living there, but there's no clue as to why he should have changed his name from Frost to Ault.
David
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Thank you David
strangely Charles Frost was buried at St Marys church, Paddington Green Paddington. My secondary School in the early 1970s was just across the road. I had to pass the cemetery to get to school and this was before the new flyover was built and some of the buried were taken to Mill hill cemetery and placed in a plot with a memorial. I never knew he was there and maybe even Margret but then I was too young and wasn't even thinking about family history.
thank You all
Sue
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David, Sue,.... There's another Canterbury Will available on Ancestry; this one's for Elizabeth Ault, otherwise Holt, wife of Charles Ault of Leighton Buzzard, who was buried at Potsgrove on 11 Feb 1807. It was dated 7th Feb 1807 although it was not proved until 10 Feb 1825 ? why so?
She was the Elizabeth Bates who married Charles Ault in 1793 although the marriage register doesn't say she's a widow; this will mentions that she's the widow of Thomas Bates.
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The very brief will names beneficiaries son John Bates £200 and daughter Mary Bates £200, her children by her late husband Thomas Bates, at age 21. The executor was her husband Charles but the probate states "Administration/with the will annexed granted to John Stopp and James Clarke the executors of the will of Charles Ault deceased, whilst living the lawful husband and executor, who survived but died without having proved the said will. No residuary legatee." So it seems that both of the Bates children had died without issue. Odd that she didn't mention her daughter Elizabeth.
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Last post honest
How can I find out what killed poor old Henry frost and mary in 1810 and uncle charles did dies early as well. HMMMMMMMMM what diseases were around at this time.
sue