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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham Lookup Requests => Durham => England => Durham Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Kirsty Spence on Thursday 16 February 17 00:38 GMT (UK)
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My great, great grandfather lived in st Aidan's parish in the early 1900s and all his children were baptised in the church. I have a feeling he may have been married in the church abt 1885 but can't seem to find any marriage for him. His name was William Spence and he married an Anne Alder. He was born 1868 in south church and she was born 1865 felling. Could any one see if they could help me find their marriage also if they died at St Aidan's where would they have been burried? I thought maybe st Aidan's church itself or Bensham but can't find if St Aidan's had a Burial ground or any links between st Aidan's and Bensham cemetry. Any info would be hugely appreciate. Thanks Kirsty xx
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Marriages December qtr 1893
William Spence/Anne Alder Durham 10a 496
www.freebmd.org.uk
What year did they each die?
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I haven't found that so I'm not sure. I've found them on the 1901 census with Children listed as Robert William Alder Spence age 4 , John Spence age 2 and Elizabeth age 11 months but not sure when they died. I was hoping someone on here may be able to help.
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so I'm not sure.
Why aren't you sure? It's the only marriage with those 2 names.
If you check Roberts birth registration on the GRO site it shows his mothers maiden name as Alder - and one of his christian names is Alder
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Haven't you looked on freebmd for their deaths?
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Hi
If you search on freebmd, it will narrow it down to the page where Anne alder marries someone, one of two men. That's the reference Carolew found for you. If you search by the less common surname it's quicker.
If you search on the Durham county council web site and search for Anne alder, it confirms that a William spence married an Anne alder. We can't say if it's YOUR Anne alder but it does fit with a lot of what you state.
https://gro.durham.gov.uk/pgPublicDetail.aspx
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Moderator this seems to be in a completed thread but it doesn't sound as if it is completed.
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I haven't found that so I'm not sure. I've found them on the 1901 census with Children listed as Robert William Alder Spence age 4 , John Spence age 2 and Elizabeth age 11 months but not sure when they died. I was hoping someone on here may be able to help.
Where are they living on the 1901? I'm having difficulty seeing them though that could be the site I'm using and transcriptions !
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Sorry, I was finding it difficult to find out how to post on here as I'm using my phone and I thought it was on right thread. I do apologise. I meant to say I'm not sure about their deaths. I believe you have found the correct marriage for them. I've had a look on free bmd as best I could but the deaths in there don't seem to add up to when they were born I'm new to this so it's all a bit confusing. Hence why I'm asking for help. Thanks
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They're living in st Aidan's , Gateshead. I was sent the census by someone as I couldn't find it. They're definitely on the 1911 one and I found that easily.
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Hi
Don't worry about the thread this is on. The reason I asked the moderators to consider moving it was that if a thread is in a completed area, then fewer people will look at it and so you get less offers of help that's all!
For those of you looking for them in 1901 census, they are indexed as Spencer and not Spence on ancestry. They are living at 1 Davidson Terrace Gateshead.
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There is a death of a William Spence age 85 in June quarter of 1953.
Ref is Gateshead 1a 705. This would tie in with a date of birth in 1868.
The date of 1868 ties in with both the 1901 census and the 1911 census.
If you ordered the death cert, it would state the name of the informant, who may or may not be a family member and that would help you decide if this was your relations death cert.
You would have to buy the marriage cert we referred to earlier to confirm that was your relative.
What is it that you are really looking for? Just the date of death or more than that?
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That's ok! I thought I was in trouble for posting it in wrong thread and it was going to be deleted haha! Thanks for the death and the feedback to why I needed help on the census. I'm really trying to trace my family tree back. I knew William was born south church, bishop Auckland but there was more than one William Spence born there around the same time so I need info to try and figure out which one it was to find the next generation. Also if they passed away at st Aidan's where would they be burried? The church is no longer there and I'm not sure it had a burial ground and if not then where were they burried as a lot of churches link to bensham but not st Aidan's links to bensham from what I can see. Thank you I really appreciate the help with this x
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Trying to narrow down the year of death. You last have him alive in 1911.
According to the Absent Voters Roll for Gateshead 1918,
John Spence , Pte 41508 1st North Staffs
Robert W Spence, Corp 28748, MGC
were absent from the household at 170 Marian St, Bensham
They look likely for the sons of William and Ann(ie)
1922 Electoral roll for 170 Marian St
Annie Spence (qualifying by Husband's occupation)
William Spence (qualifying by Residence and Occupation)
John Spence ((qualifying by Residence)
all 3 still at Marian St. for 1925, 1929, 1930, 1931 Electoral Rolls
My access stops at 1931 so can't check later years, but if the WW1 service for the two sons checks out then your William and Ann(ie) were still around in 1931.
Boo
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Thanks for your input. I'm not too sure that this links as Robert was always on documents as Robert William alder Spence (Williams son) and he (Robert) had moved to Alnwick by 1918 as that's when my grandad was born he was a grocery worker all his life and his wife Jane worked at Alnwick castle before moving to The Green, Chester le Street. I think I have came across another family similar in the Gateshead area in which I don't think is mine. I'm new to this so I could be wrong about some things but I definitely know Robert was residing at Alnwick when my grandad was born in 1918 as have birth and baptism cert for him x
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As far as I know that when Robert William alder Spence moves to Alnwick his parents were still at St Aidan's Gateshead. X
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Though its not writ in stone, I wouldn't discount it out of hand.
I'd expect Robert William Alder Spence would have been in the forces in WW1, grocery work was not classed as an exempt occupation, though I suppose he could have been medically unfit.
If his wife's maiden name was Lawson then they married in the June Quarter in Alnwick, the information that he was a serving soldier, absent from Marian St., may well have been given prior to his marriage. The baby was registered in the Dec quarter of 1918 and by then the father could have been discharged from the army.
Boo
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Robert William alder spences wife was a Lawson. The child you mention is my grandad b 3/12/1918 William Lawson Spence. It's further back I'm needing info for ie William Spence b 1885, wife Anne Alder and his parents x
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I've tried searching for the 2 men that you named in the forces to see if there's any links. I can't find them. I do remember vaguely seeing another family in Gateshead with a Robert and a William so maybe it's that family as I can't seem to find them to see if there age etc matches up x
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I've tried searching for the 2 men that you named in the forces to see if there's any links. I can't find them. I do remember vaguely seeing another family in Gateshead with a Robert and a William so maybe it's that family as I can't seem to find them to see if there age etc matches up x
The absent voters roll I found at Marian St had a Robert W and a John which matches with your family
Boo
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I'll try and have another look to see if I can find them on google. Thanks.
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Robert William alder spences wife was a Lawson. The child you mention is my grandad b 3/12/1918 William Lawson Spence. It's further back I'm needing info for ie William Spence b 1885, wife Anne Alder and his parents x
I'm getting confused again. I thought William who you found in the 1901 and 1911 was born about 1868 not 1885. If you want to find out Williams parents, you need to buy William and Anne alders marriage cert. That should state his fathers name and if he was still alive when the marriage took place.
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Sorry William was born in 1868 and married 1885. In confused myself ha! Xx
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Ive dug out some photos that we found in my grandad house after he passed away and there is a photo of Robert in a uniform and there's another photo of his father William stood in front of a door with the number 170 so yes it is the same family-it must be. I'm sorry for doubting I was convinced it was a different family. Is there any way someone can fine them on the 1939 register? William would have been abt 71 and Anne abt 74 years old. X thank you for finding the electoral roles for me x
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:-) Super to have the photos.
Family history can be a long, time consuming and often expensive process, it really is best to find out as much as you can about one generation before moving on to the previous one. The info we find for each generation helps us as we go back.
Asking questions is good and everyone is willing to help but we try to help by by offering suggestions and showing you the different ways you can use to sort out who did what and when. From there you can get the records and decide if they are the correct ones.
I never say that anything I find is 'definite' but offer possible theories. It wasn't a case of me saying I was right and you saying I wasn't, I offered a theory to be explored.
The electoral rolls were another avenue to explore to narrow down of William Spence's year of death to make the 'possible' death registration that Candleflame gave you of Q2 1953 more likely. Certs are expensive and we all want to be as sure as we can be before spending out on one. If those electoral rolls were a match for the family (which seemed highly possible) they indicated that he was still alive in 1931 so that increased the likelihood of the death reg which was a match for name, area and age.
IF you are in Tyneside the area I'd suggest going to Tyne and Wear Archives, they have parish registers on microfilm which you can explore to see if he was buried in a churchyard, though if he died in 1953 I'd also be looking at the civil cemeteries of Gateshead East and Saltwell (both on microfilm at Tyne and Wear Archives)
Another option is to go to Newcastle Library and look at the microfilms of the Newcastle Evening Chronicle to see if there was a death announcement in the newspaper, they often give details of where the burial took place. Means looking through all the editions for 3 months covering the June quarter of 1953, which is time consuming but free. Other than that you need to buy the death cert to see if its the right one.
As for the WW1 service of both John and Robert William, though you couldn't find a service record that is not unusual as about 60% of the WWI service records were destroyed in WW2 when the building they were stored in was hit with an incendiary bomb. The ones that weren't burned were damaged by the water they used to put the fire out, so its hit and miss to find a surviving record. Also bear in mind that though your Dad says his Grandad never mentioned serving in WW1, many men did not talk about their service, they were ordinary lads who went through an extraordinary and horrific experience and its no wonder many didn't talk about it afterwards.
I am sorry, but the rules of the forum are that we are not allowed to do look ups on the 1939 Register for copyright reasons. Even if you don't have a subscription to FindMyPast, you can try a free search of the 1939 Register to see if there are any possibles so try a free search for William and Ann to see if there are any possible results.
To go further back you would, as has been suggested, need to buy the marriage cert for William Spence and Ann Alder to see what the names of their fathers were and also their fathers' occupations. Armed with that info you can explore previous census returns to see if you can find them.
Boo
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Back to other avenues to explore -
Your William Alder, born c 1868 was a stationary fireman.
http://www.darlington.gov.uk/leisure-and-culture/head-of-steam/ken-hoole-study-centre/
That link takes you to a page for the Darlington Railway Museum and one of the links on the page will let you download an excel file for the pension records details. On that list is a
William Spence, born 23 Sept 1867, died 09 June 1953, started work for the NER on 17 May 1898, was a Fireman based in Gateshead and later was an attendant in Gateshead.
You can contact Darlington Museums to order a copy of the pension record which may give addresses etc, been a long time since I ordered one of these but, from memory, the cost wasn't very much.
So, a bit of a long road round, but the date of death for that registration of Q2 1953, is a match for name, age and now occupation, still not writ in stone but getting increasingly likely. You also have a date this person died, so if you can get to Newcastle Library to look at the Evening Chronicle on microfilm you can zoom through to the 9th and start looking for a possible death announcement from there. IF there is one and IF it has details that confirm its the right person it will likely mention a cemetery, the burial records will be at Tyne and Wear Archives.
If you are outside of the area and can't get to the library, you can try a new post now you have a date of death and ask for a lookup. IF someone is going and has time they may look for you as any announcement would have been within a few days so not too long to look.
Sometimes looking at other, seemingly unconnected to what you are looking for, records may lead you to the info you need.
Boo
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Good find TB and also very well explained posts in my opinion .
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Sorry for not replying sooner-I'm unwell with a cold. Thank you Boo for all of that information, you are truly a star. I've managed to get quite a lot out of it so thanks again and thank you to all those that commented-I really do appreciate all your help. I hope one day I'm as good as all of you at researching. Think I have a long way to go though. Thanks again . Kirsty