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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Radnorshire => Topic started by: malijibic on Tuesday 21 February 17 10:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Tuesday 21 February 17 10:06 GMT (UK)
Family search has text record
marriage banns of
Thos Rowlands and Mary Palfrey
at Llanbadarn Vawr, Radnorshire
in 1762
If I click on .... I am directed to family search and an error message comes up.
I have tried to enter the details into findmypast but get "no results"
Suggestions of where to try next would be welcome as I am clutching at straws, see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765525.0
thank you
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 February 17 10:18 GMT (UK)
That's very strange as I'm getting the same as you- an error when I try to go to FindMyPast. It looks as if it might be a Banns record rather than a marriage entry. I've done some other searches (inc Powys records)  but so far nothing coming up  :-\

Did you notce  that a Mary was bpt 17 June 1725, Knighton.
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Tuesday 21 February 17 10:32 GMT (UK)
Yes I had found the baptism for Mary, daughter of Joseph Palfrey.
Palfrey Rowlands's son were Thomas , Joseph and George.  That is what caught my eye and made me think that it was a possible.
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 February 17 10:37 GMT (UK)
If FindMyPast haven't got the records for Llanbadarn up (I did a check and no marriages/banns for that year there), It might be a phone call or trip to the records office. Are you far from Llandrindod?
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 February 17 10:40 GMT (UK)
They say the FindMyPast do have most of the records ~

http://pstatic.powys.gov.uk/fileadmin/Docs/archives/records_catalogue/Parish/RadPR_bi.pdf

(Llanbadarn on page 5)
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Tuesday 21 February 17 10:47 GMT (UK)
We are nearer to the National Library than to Llandrindod.  Might have a chance to pop in later in the week. Will email them first.
diolch
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Tuesday 21 February 17 21:56 GMT (UK)
At NLW
Rowlands, Thomas, yeoman, Llangollen, Denbighshire to Palfrey, Mary, sp., Llanbadarn Fawr, Radnorshire : 1762 June 5.
Do you think that I am on the right track?
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 February 17 22:43 GMT (UK)
That looks good - Palfrey was born Llangollen, Havodgynfawr/Glyn Traian, wasn't he. Think we found him on your other thread.
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 February 17 23:04 GMT (UK)
This was a possible birth for Thomas from other thread:

Been looking at more booklets. Thomas and Mary had a daughter Elizabeth bpt. in 1763 but she died.,,,,,,,,,,, No sign of a marriage in the Llangollen booklets. Could have been St Martins, Chirk or Glynceiriog.

Have traced a possible birth for Thomas - b. 20th May 1739, bpt 24th. Parents were John and Mary. Abode was Cilcychwyn, which is in the Pontfadog part of the Llangollen parish,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 22 February 17 07:01 GMT (UK)
Are you sure about Mary born 1725? She would be 37 in 1762.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 February 17 08:21 GMT (UK)
Are you sure about Mary born 1725? She would be 37 in 1762.

Trish :)

No - it was just a baptism of the same name that might be followed up in the future - it might be a relative.  It was the marriage that was central to the query.

Gadget
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Wednesday 22 February 17 09:38 GMT (UK)
Are you sure about Mary born 1725? She would be 37 in 1762.

Trish :)
I am not sure about that Mary, she would have been 40 when Palfrey was born.
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Wednesday 22 February 17 09:39 GMT (UK)
NLW here I come, the marriage bond will hopefully give me some more clues.
Diolch
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 February 17 09:50 GMT (UK)
A bit more~

Apart from Elizabeth 1763 and Palfrey/Bolfrey, there was
 <a gap>
Thomas, bpt 16th June 1774
George, bpt 1 July 1779

All born Havodgynfawr. They might have moved but, given the last birth here was 1779 and assuming no other births, Mary would have been born no earlier than 1729.

Did you find a will for Thomas?
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Wednesday 22 February 17 16:49 GMT (UK)
No will for Thomas Rowland(s).
The names of Palfrey's siblings are interesting though.
I will leave Mary for now and see what I can find on Thomas.
Diolch
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 22 February 17 21:38 GMT (UK)

I will leave Mary for now and see what I can find on Thomas.


Have just found this which might be your Mary as daughter was named Elizabeth:

Casgob, Radnorshire
13 Feb 1732 - Mary Palphrey, d of Elizabeth and Richard

 :)
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Wednesday 22 February 17 21:51 GMT (UK)
Will have a look in the morning.
Been trawling the Llangollen baptisms for Palfrey's siblings. Found the same ones as you.
Noticed that Thomas and George were sons of Thomas Rowland, no mention of his wife. All the others on the page are"by ..... his wife" 
Thans for your help
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Wednesday 08 March 17 17:16 GMT (UK)
The marriage bond in the library has no information  except their names.
Thomas Rowlands signed as did his supporter Anthony Johnson of Brecon.
The marriage took place at Llanbadarn Vawr on the 27 day of June 1762.  so 25 days between the licence and the marriage.  All the others I have seen the marriage as taken place the next day.
Thomad and Mary signed as did the witnesses  Morgan Bowen and Thomas James.

An administration bond for Richard Palfrey, Nantmel Radnor 28 August 1774
I can not read it all but it has
................. Mary the wife of Thomas Rowlands daughter of
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 08 March 17 17:40 GMT (UK)
i can't work it out either  :-\

 It would be worth you putting it up on the Deciphering board:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/handwriting-deciphering-recognition/

There are some good handwriting experts there.

PS - you'll need to give the image file a different name.
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Wednesday 08 March 17 17:45 GMT (UK)
Will have a go on the deciphering board.
Richard Palfrey was a churchwarden in Llanbadarn Vawr, but I did not check the dates.
Thanks
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Liza115 on Friday 10 March 17 09:59 GMT (UK)
Hi
My Palfrey ancestors are buried at Llanbadarn Fawr, so I feel compelled to join in.
There's another Mary Palfrey that is a better age to be the wife of Thomas Rowlands, born in the late 1830s/early 1840s in that area, but I don't know if she's the right one. 
I haven't found this Mary Palfrey in any parish records, but she is named in three wills on the National Library of Wales website:
- her uncle's: Richard Palfrey, of Llanbister, dated 1741. He names two daughters of his sister-in-law, Hester/Ester Palfrey: Mary and Hester, and mentions his brother John Palfrey.
- her grandmother's: Mary Palfrey, a widow, of Llanbister, dated 1761. She names four daughters of her daughter Hester/Esther: Mary, Hester, Anne and Elizabeth Palfrey. Her executor is her son-in-law, John Palfrey.
- her father's: John Phalfrey, of Llanbister, dated 1767. He names his four daughters: Mary Phalfrey, Ester James, Anne Phalfrey and Elizabeth Phalfrey.
John Palfrey/Phalfrey married Hester/Ester Palfrey in 1738.
So this Mary had two uncles called Richard Palfrey -- her mother's brother and her father's brother. (This is confirmed by other wills.) The Richard Palfrey who died in 1776, when Mrs Mary Rowlands is named, could be her mother's brother.
This Mary Palfrey seems to be the right age and living in the right area to be Thomas Rowlands' wife. The only thing that doesn't fit is that her father didn't use her married name in his will, which was written in 1767.
The lack of baptismal records for people of Thomas Rowlands' wife's generation means there were probably a lot more Mary Palfreys that we don't know about.
I'll be interested to hear what you find out. Good luck!   
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 March 17 10:12 GMT (UK)
There could be patronymics used at that time, Although Radnor was a border county in which the use of the patronymic form didn't last as long as the more westerly counties.  Worth thinking about though.
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Sunday 12 March 17 20:47 GMT (UK)
The Mary I am looking for married Thomas Rowlands of Llangollen in 1762 at Llanbadarn Vawr.
She was the wife of Thomas Rowlands of Llangollen and daughter of Richard Palfrey of Nantmel according to the admin bond in NLW.   
Her first child was born in 1763 and the last in 1779.  I thought that I had found her born 1732 at Casgob, but that would make her 47 when her last child was born.  This Mary has a brother Thomas, b1729 they were the children of Richard Palfrey and Elizabeth his wife. 
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 15 March 17 11:13 GMT (UK)
May be right. My Mother was 47 when I was born.  :)
Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: jillrose on Monday 20 March 17 00:30 GMT (UK)
Don't know if this will help or not but there are a few entries on my website about Palfrey ROWLAND.  They are listed under 'Palfrey'.

www.clwydsurnames.org.uk

Title: Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
Post by: malijibic on Monday 20 March 17 19:04 GMT (UK)
Thank you, will now search for the Llangwm marriage so that I can compare the signature of Palfrey the witness with that of Palfrey, (the Caernarvon butcher,)my gggggrandfather
Diolch