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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: KennyD on Friday 24 February 17 09:40 GMT (UK)
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What I do know is that my 3x great-grandfather James Robertson was:
. born around 1801 according to his death records,
. was a millwright / engineer,
. married to a Jane Robertson (though I know nothing more than this about Jane),
. was in New Norfolk, Van Dieman's Land (= Tasmania) when his first child I know about was born,
. son David Robertson was born in New Norfolk on 4 September 1832,
. daughter Elizabeth Robertson was born in New Norfolk on 3 April 1835,
. he died at David Robertson's residence in Honeywood / Geeveston, Huon, Tasmania on 7 May 1862.
Family 'talk' suggests he was of Scottish origin and I can find no sign of him being born in Tasmania. The only possible match I have for him (and only because I have no other details so I can't yet refute it) is a James Robertson on a voyage on the Minerva from Leith, Scotland which arrived in Tasmania on 30 September 1832.
Absolutely any help or guidance in finding the origin of 'my' James Robertson would be appreciated.
Kind regards, Ken.
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http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/firstfamily2b70.html mentions 'another'(?) 1832 born David Robertson in Geeveston, but who apparently travelled there from Scotland in 1855.
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http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/firstfamily2b70.html mentions 'another'(?) 1832 born David Robertson in Geeveston, but who apparently travelled there from Scotland in 1855.
Thank you for finding this - this is definitely referring to James Robertson's son David Robertson who is my 2x great grandfather who married Anne Hyndes... His birth and baptism were recorded in New Norfolk, Tasmania in 1832 so he did not 'arrive' in Tasmania in 1855 unless he had left Australia and later returned aged 23. I think there might be some confusion there somewhere. My great-grandfather William Erin Robertson was a younger brother of David Scott Robertson, one of a number of siblings.
Now I just need David's father, James!
Kind regards, Ken.
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Given his age, and that he is apparently travelling with another family, it is not impossible that he left and returned. You could check the passenger details at:
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/default.aspx?detail=1&type=I&id=CB7/12/1/6
to see if it yields any further clues, or suggests that the David travelling in 1855 was a different person altogether, and mistakenly recorded by the other researcher as the same David.
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This is a long shot, as the name James Robertson is very popular in Scotland, but thinking that the first son could be named after the father's father and if the middle name Scott is a surname handed down then the following may fit..
James Robertson baptized 27 July 1801 Caputh, Perthshire, Scotland father David Robertson mother Janet Scott
Hard to find a conclusive match though. Another idea may be to search the early census with the surname Robertson and occupation Millwright and Mill Wright to see if you can find some relatives that fit right.
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Given his age, and that he is apparently travelling with another family, it is not impossible that he left and returned.
This could explain Jane's disappearance, she went back home, with at least David, and didn't return
Add: link to passenger list page
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-16-1-1$init=CB7-16-1-1p064jpg (https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-16-1-1$init=CB7-16-1-1p064jpg)
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Wow! Thank you for this help!
It's fantastic to finally have some real possibilities to track! This is getting exciting!
If that is my 2x great grandfather James Robertson, this also gives me an employer (George Johnson of Elizabeth Street, who was providing lodging) to add to my information to review...
I hadn't even thought of the possibility of Jane Robertson disappearing from Australia by going back to Scotland and never returning!
Now I can start hunting for a Jane Robertson and David Robertson departure from Australia back to Scotland between 1835 and 1855 and it's time to look for Elizabeth Robertson getting married in Tasmania or having also gone back to Scotland and not returning.
How far back do Scottish census records go? I've traced Danish census records before (for Dad's family) but never Scottish records.
Kind regards, Ken.
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How far back do Scottish census records go?
The useful ones go back to 1841.
There were earlier ones in 1801, 1811, 1821 and 1831 but they only collected numbers, not names, so they are not useful for tracing ancestors.
Was David's wife Jane's maiden name also Robertson?
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Was David's wife Jane's maiden name also Robertson?
At this point I just don't know... The earliest I know of Jane Robertson is the birth of her son David in 1832 in New Norfolk, Tasmania. I have not found any marriage record for James and Jane in Tasmania. If they were married in Scotland, that would explain why I can't find their marriage in Australia.
Kind regards, Ken.
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Was David's wife Jane's maiden name also Robertson?
At this point I just don't know
Ah.
In Scotland, a married woman does not legally lose her maiden name on marriage. The result is that she tends to be listed using her maiden surname in older records, and deaths of married women are indexed by both maiden and married surnames.
So what we know is that James Robertson and his wife Jane (who might also be recorded as Jean) had a child in Tasmania in 1832. (It seems unlikely that the James Robertson who arrived in Tasmania on 30 September would be the father of a child born in Tasmania earlier the same month, surely?)
James could not have married before he was 14, and he is unlikely to have married before age 20, and he had left Scotland by 1832. The index at Scotland's People lists 21 marriages of a James Robertson to a Jane, and 42 to a Jean, between 1820 and 1832.
If you are prepared to spend a bit of time on this, there is a way to narrow down the possibles.
Go to https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi and search for children born to James Robertson and Jane between 1832 and 1854. Then compare the mothers' surnames to the list of Janes and Jeans from the SP marriages, and cross off any who were having family in Scotland in the 1830s and 1840s. This will leave you with a list of James Robertsons who married a Jane/Jean and were not having family after your James and Jane left Scotland.
This is not a perfect solution because (a) not all marriages are in the records (b) for completeness you would have to do the same exercise using the Roman Catholic and Other Churches sections of the SP web site (c) there could be couples who had no children or who also emigrated before 1832 (d) I am sure there will be other reasons I have not thought of. Whetever you do, it is never safe to assume that, just because there is only one possible candidate in the records, it has to be the right one. We have all made that mistake and spent time climbing the branches of a tree that isn't ours!
As an example, a James Robertson married a Jane Brodie in Perth in 1826. This couple had a son James, born 1830 in Perth, but no more children are listed. So this couple could have emigrated and had more children in Tasmania. (Did your David have an elder brother James, I wonder?)
On the other hand, James Robertson and Jean Mowbray, married in Edinburgh in 1827, had a daughter in Edinburgh on 4 June 1832, so you can safely cross this couple off the list of ones who might have been the parents of your David.
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Now things are moving!
I have managed to find Jane Robertson's death notice - and it was in Hobart, Tasmania! Her husband was listed as James Scott in the index so it had thrown me off the track initially...
Jane/Jean Scott was born around 1804, died aged 51 of "Dropsy" in Hobart on 2nd March 1855 and was an engineers wife, living at Bathurst Street in Hobart at the time.
It now turns out David Robertson has likely sailed to Scotland almost immediately after his mother has died, taking either possessions or her ashes back to Scotland and then returning to Hobart on the 'Conway' which left Liverpool on 12th July 1855 on the return voyage to Hobart which arrived on 14th October 1855. It looks like David Robertson spend late June / early July 1855 in Scotland before sailing back home.
This should now make the job of finding James and Jane Robertson a bit easier with a year of birth +/- 1 and Jane/Jean's Scott maiden name!
My thanks to everyone who has helped get me to this point! The quest continues!
Kind regards, Ken.
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Failure.
I have been unable to find any marriage record of James Robertson and Jean Scott which might have held a clue to the parents of either James or Jean and let me trace back any further.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:97FY-RXB This is 'my' James and Jean but it doesn't help me go back any further into the past.
<Sigh>
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Do you have these two other children born to James Robertson, millwright, and Jean Scott:
James Alexander Robertson
b. 22 Jan 1843, Hobart
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27M-4QCL
Margaret Robertson
b. 29 May 1847, Hobart
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27M-4XHC
Ruth
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The Maritime Times of Tasmania has an article on the James Robertson who arrived in Tasmania in 1832:
http://www.maritimetas.org/sites/all/files/maritime/maritimetimes_issue_50_autumn_2015.pdf
It is on pages 19 and 20
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Hello Ruth - yes, those two children are part of 'my' Robertson family. Sadly, none of their records that I have found (or had help to find) allow me to go further into the past of their parents.
Hello J11 - sadly, the James Robertsons included in that document are not 'my' James Robertson but it does look likely that 'my' James Robertson may have worked for Easby & Robertson at some point after he has left New Norfolk and before he died at his son David's residence in Geeveston. 'My' James Robertson can't be one of the Robertsons who arrived in Tasmania in 1832 on the Minerva.
I had hoped to find some linking document that would allow me to identify which of the many James Robertsons born around 1800 was 'my' James Robertson but I have not been able to.
My thanks to everyone who has helped me in my quest.
Kind regards,
Ken.
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I thought that was the case but posted as it is useful to be able to definitely exclude the James who arrived on the Minerva. If you think your Robertsons could have worked at Easby and Robertson, it may be that they were related, say cousins or the like. People often emigrated to where family were already established. Yours may have come first and the other Robertsons followed on. Might be an idea to see if you can find a tree for the E&R Robertsons and see if they could connect with yours. The article says they came from Leith. There are a couple of James Robertsons born in South Leith to a David which might be promising for your James. Having said that, Robertson is a very common name in Scotland so it could be a total red herring but that is what I would try next.
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Still not there yet but possibly getting closer...
'My' James Robertson was sometimes known as 'John Robertson' (as shown on his burial record, for instance).
When his son David Robertson (my great-great-grandfather) sailed back to Tasmania on the 'Conway' in 1855, the McPhee family he sailed and was listed with in the voyage documents (in the Alphabetical List of Bounty Emigrants) were sponsored by 'John Robertson'...
A Leitch family on the same ship were also sponsored by John Robertson and one of the Leitch daughters (Mary Ann (Ella) Leitch, born after they arrived in Tasmania) married one of David Robertson's sons (my great-grandfather William Erin Robertson).
The really interesting bit from discovering this link back to Scotland is that 'John Robertson' sponsored a total of nine families and all except one sailed on the 'Conway' in 1855 (the Harper family of three sailed on the 'James Baines' clipper) - and all of these nine families had listed connections to Paisley, Renfrewshire in Scotland.
Have I finally managed to at least pin down where 'my' James Robertson came from in Scotland? It is surely much too large a coincidence that everyone sponsored by 'John Robertson' came from the same location and that James Robertson didn't also have a connection to Paisley...
The search continues...
Ken.
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Hmmm... Robertson is a very common name. Also, the Paisley influx was a generation later than your James Robertson's immigration so probably coincidental. I would look for a link to the Leith Robertsons of Easby and Robertson as more likely than the Robertsons who came over in the 1850s, particularly given the similarity of occupations.
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It's taken me this long - but I never gave up!
"My" 5x Great-Grandfather James Robertson was born on 14th June 1801 in Raughboag (now Roughrigg), son of William Robertson and Janet Walker.
Now my research moves into Scotland and the New Monkland parish.
Who were my 7x Great-Grandparents?
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"My" 5x Great-Grandfather James Robertson was born on 14th June 1801 in Raughboag (now Roughrigg), son of William Robertson and Janet Walker.
How did you find that, and are you sure? Because that James Robertson died in Glasgow in 1877. See attached.
He married Margaret Robb in 1855 and the marriage certificate says that his parents were William Robertson and Janet Walker.
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Is that definitely the same James Robertson that was born in 1801 in Raughboag? <Sigh!>
So confusing!
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Well, unless there were two James Robertsons, both born in New Monkland at the same time, with a different pair of parents with the same names, it does look as if he is the one born in Raughboag.
What information did you find to suggest that he was your James R?
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Well, unless there were two James Robertsons, both born in New Monkland at the same time, with a different pair of parents with the same names, it does look as if he is the one born in Raughboag.
What information did you find to suggest that he was your James R?
Aaaargh! I was given that by someone else. Have I been given a wrong lead? Just when I thought I had what I was after!
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Well, unless there were two James Robertsons, both born in New Monkland at the same time, with a different pair of parents with the same names, it does look as if he is the one born in Raughboag.
What information did you find to suggest that he was your James R?
Aaaargh! I was given that by someone else. Have I been given a wrong lead? Just when I thought I had what I was after!
Oh dear :( I rather fear that it must indeed be a wrong lead.
Did the person who gave it to you offer you any evidence to support it?