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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: Kook on Saturday 25 February 17 22:50 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for information on my gt gt grandfather, Walter Underwood b 1868 East Hendred, Berkshire. So far, I have only found him from his marriage in 1890 onwards. I cannot find anything before that.
Relevant information that may be helpful - He married Martha Alice Laister (my gt gt grandmother) in 1890 in Hoyland, Yorkshire. They lived in Chapel Street in Hoyland Common, Yorkshire. I have all the information about his children and also his 2nd marriage sometime after my gt gt grandmother passed away.
I also know his father was called William Underwood. I have seen his name on a document but cannot remember which document this was. I cannot find him either!
Help with anything before his first marriage would be brilliant. I have spent a very long time trying to research. Thank you in advance!
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
Ignoring the Berkshire reference, there are 2 possiblilities on the 1881 census?
One born 1866 in Hornsey, Middlesex.
Another born 1869 in Birmingham.
Both have fathers called William. The first a butcher; the second a cordwainer.
What was William's occupation on the marriage certificate?
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Thank you for your reply! That was fast.
Thats the trouble I'm having. I know nothing about William. Walter stated on a document (one of his marriages, I assume) that his father was called William. Thats as much as I know. Its so frustrating. Walter states on all of his census sheets that he was born in East Hendred, Berkshire. Im finding no trace of him though. You think Walter could have been born elsewhere?
I really appreciate your help!
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I think you must get one of Walter's marriage certificates?!
Not only will it show his father's name, but also father's occupation.
Many people know where they were brought up, but not necessarily where they were born?
And there is no Birth Registration, on FreeBMD, in Berkshire for a Walter in 1868 +/- 2 years?
The other possibility is that Walter was illegitimate, and is under his mother's name in earlier censuses?
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The 1871 Census has just 1 Walter born 1868, East Hendred?
Walter West, parents William & Jane West.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFX2-TVW
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Wow. Thank you! You are massively helpful..and very clever! I shall look into the West family. Its making me wonder if the Underwood name he calls himself is actually from a step parent, or as you suggest, his mothers maiden name. If I get no luck from the West family, I shall look into ordering a marriage certificate for Walter.
I have also wondered for a long time, if he or his father could possibly have used a false surname, for whatever reason. Did that ever happen or is my imagination running away with me? Its so interesting but also frustrating to hit a dead end.
Thank you again! I really appreciate your help :)
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The laws of England & Wales allow anyone to call themselves anything they like!
Just as long as there is no intention to deceive or defraud.
Of course, it's not so easy these days, with all the Government computer systems! ;D
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Hmm. Maybe I will check the criminal records too lol. I am researching the West family now. They moved to Leigh in Lancashire, which could just be a huge coincidence. A branch of my other great grandparents (Barton) are from there. I haven't managed to piece any of it together yet though. I've found a marriage for Walter West in Leigh to a lady that wasn't my gt grandmother. I'll keep going though. Others researching him don't seem to have found him on on any census after 1881. Interesting!
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Hi,
To follow up on KG's link to the 1871 census, I find that either they have changed names or that some of the children were not baptised in East or West Hendred. For example going thru the transcripts for East Hendred I find the following baptisms;
25-1-1856 John West s/o William & Jane, shoemaker.
" James William West " " " "
17-3-1862 Albert West " " " "
also to add to the ?confusion;
25-7-1859 Sarah Ann West d/o William & Jane, Labr
" Jemima " " " " "
10-3-1870 Mark Robert West s/o William & Jane, mason's labr
12-5-1872 Caleb West " " " " "
There is also another "West" family having children during the time frame 1859 - 1870ish but I have left them out.
I looked at 1861,71,81 census as they all say EH as place of birth with Jane being a widow in the 1881 born Shippon, Berks
Could this all be the same family with William changing occupations??
Alan
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Thank you Ribbo. I've been searching most of the day. I've struggled to find any christenings yet. I have found that Walter Wests wife Ann (nee Ashton) appears to be living back at home on the 1891 census. She states she is married and also has a son listed - Henry West. Of course, theres always the chance that she was just visiting her parents that day. I need to try and find Walter West on the 1891 census. If hes not listed anywhere, either he has separated from his wife Ann or has passed away. If this is the same man that is my gt gt grandfather Walter Underwood but using a different surname, that will explain why I cant find him before then (as an Underwood). I have checked his marriage details to my gt gt grandmother. He definitely states his father is William Underwood. Its one big mystery!
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Hi again Ribbo. After looking through the information I have, I came up with more or less the same names as you. It's so confusing. I'm not sure what to make of it all. I think I need to order my gt gt grandfather Walter Underwoods marriage certificate. I know it will definitely say his father is William Underwood. It's been transcribed online. If he is 'William West' using a different name later in life, why do you think he might do that? i really appreciate you all trying to untangle all of this. I have tried to find my gt gt grandfather for the past few years. There are quite a few others online searching him too, that can't find any more information about him either. Its very frustrating. I even have his photograph but know very little about him. Thank you again! :)
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UPDATE - I have looked into the West family. Walter West vanished around the same time Walter Underwood (my gt gt grandfather) turned up in Barnsley. Both Walters have fathers called William and they are both Agricultural labourers. Both Walters are born in East Hendred. I have come across some photos of the West family. The West boys look strikingly like my gt gt grandfather.
If these Walters are the same person, it would seem that he left his wife Ann West (nee Ashton) and his very young son Henry West to start a new life in Barnsley, using the name Underwood. I cannot find a divorce at all. My gt gt grandmother, Martha Alice Laister died and Walter 'Underwood' married his housekeeper a lot later on and had children with her.
So, it very much looks like my gt gt grandfather was a naughty boy!
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Yes it does ;D
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I have read a lot about people leaving their marriages and re-marrying without divorcing first. Seems it was quite common back then, due to the cost of divorce. It wasn't always granted either. I keep looking at my gt gt grandfathers photo and comparing it to the West siblings. They look so alike! Same eyes, chins and noses. Its strange to see lol. I keep wondering if he ever told any of his family about what he was going to do and if he kept in touch with them. Nobody in our family knew anything about this. My gt grandmother even had his 'Underwood' surname lol.
I'd like to thank each person that helped me get to the bottom of this!
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Ann West says she's married in 1901 as well.
Intriguingly there is a Joseph Ashton West b Leigh Dec Q 1891, mmn Ashton. he dies in 1894. his baptism on 15 Nov 1891 lists his father as Walter, and the address is the same street as for Henry's
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Hi. Thank you! I have just found Joseph but its showing mothers name as a blank. Ill see if I can find another source.
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Hi. Thank you! I have just found Joseph but its showing mothers name as a blank. Ill see if I can find another source.
GRO index
WEST, JOSEPH ASHTON Mmn Ashton
GRO Reference: 1891 D Quarter in LEIGH Volume 08C Page 329
Cas
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Thank you! I found the birth. Strangely, in 1891 I have Ann living at home, with her parents but without Walter and also without Joseph! As Josephs birth was registered in Dec, he should have appeared on the census. I'm even more confused now lol
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Thank you! I found the birth. Strangely, in 1891 I have Ann living at home, with her parents but without Walter and also without Joseph! As Josephs birth was registered in Dec, he should have appeared on the census. I'm even more confused now lol
The census was 5th April 1891, Joseph was not registered until the December Qtr same year. So was not born to be included on census.
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Of course lol. Thank you. Its getting very confusing.