RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: hettyhen on Saturday 04 March 17 23:33 GMT (UK)
-
This is a long and involved query, I know what is meant, just hope you can follow my train of thought.
Frederick George RIDLER born 1875- 22 Nov 1939, married in 1898 Sarah Esther HOOKER had a son Frederick William Thomas born 1899.They were divorced, Decree Nisi 8 Dec 1906. Sarah died 5 Apr 1933, but can’t find her birth, (could be anywhere), or death on NZBDM. Have 2 probates as Sarah RIDLER 1933 and as Sarah Esther RIDLER aka Sarah HOOKER 1951, after a POSB account was found in her maiden name.
Frederick married in 1917 Mary Ann BROOKER. C1868 (no birth found)-27 Dec 1952.
Children on NZBDM all registered under 1917 births but born before then as follows 1917/22730 Vera Olive born 28 Dec 1908, 1917/22731 Winnie May born 5 Sept 1911, 1917/22732 Albert Eric Phipps born 17 Jul 1913 , 1917/29942 Douglas Allen Phipps born 13 Jul 1915. All have Father=Frederick George, Mother=Mary Ann.
Another two RIDLER children are buried with Frederick & Mary Ann in a family grave at Karori cemetery. Stanley George died 31 Mar 1907 age 9 months, (have found no birth or death on NZBDM as yet) and Alfreda Margaret died 25 Jul 1919 age 9 months. (Death on NZBDM but no birth, not 100 years ago?)
WCC cemetery database also has a burial “Baby RIDLER 0 years 13/08/1910” but no 1907 for Stanley George.
Mary Ann also had a son Cecil John Alexander RIDLER, known as Jack, born c1900 from death notice 12 Oct 1945 Evening Post in 45th year. He was a Miner in Shipton’s Flat, Queensland on 1937 & 1943 E/R (spelt Alexanda) and enlisted at Cairns in Aust Army Service Corps as C. J. Alexanda RIDLER born 9 Oct 1905 Wellington NZ. He died as P.O.W Borneo 5 Mar 1945, buried Labuan Malayasia.
Any ideas or thoughts to solve the following queries would be much appreciated.
Why did Mary Ann & Frederick wait until 1917 to marry, were they living together and was Mary Ann married to someone else?
Why do the children have a 1917 register number, why not a number in their birth year. Would that mean that Frederick adopted them after the marriage?
Who was the father of C.J.A “Jack” ?
Maybe the Phipps as Christian name on the two boys is a clue to Mary Ann’s maiden or mother’s maiden name but hasn’t helped me as yet.
Cheers
HeatherR
-
Hello...
The affidavit in the probate you mentioned says that Sarah Esther RIDLER died 5 Apr 1933 in Palmerston North.
Could she be the Sarah Ester GREY died 5 Apr 1933 buried in Terrace End cemetery in Palmerston North.
The cemetery website says she is married and gives an address. Maybe look into it using electoral rolls.
Palmerston North cemetery search
http://tinyurl.com/hz25w67 (http://tinyurl.com/hz25w67)
BDM NZ Deaths
1933/142 - GREY, Sarah - 52Y - d.o.d 5 Apr 1933
Palmerston North library Newspapers Index
GREY, Sarah (52)
Source: Manawatu Evening Standard 06 APR 1933, page 1
General Note: Death notice
(maybe email Palmerston North library for a copy of the death notice)
---
Why do the children have a 1917 register number, why not a number in their birth year.
The 1917 in 1917/xxxxx refers to the year of registration, not the year of the event.
As three of the numbers are consecutive it means those births were registered at the same time. The fourth possibly a bit later.
If you put the birth dates in the "Search From:" and "Search To:" boxes it will display the entry
For example:
Search From: 17/7/1913
and
Search To: 17/7/1913
and
Registration Number: 1917/22732
displays
1917/22732 Ridler Albert Eric Phipps Mary Ann Frederick George
---
Stanley George died 31 Mar 1907 age 9 months, (have found no birth or death on NZBDM as yet)
You mentioned "PHIPPS" earlier so maybe...
BDM NZ Deaths
1907/3587 - PHIPPS, Stanley George - 9 months - d.o.d 31 Mar 1907
---
Mary Ann also had a son Cecil John Alexander RIDLER [...] death notice 12 Oct 1945 Evening Post
Who was the father of C.J.A “Jack” ?
For what it's worth, the Queensland BDM website (Deaths) has his father as Frederick George RIDLER
Regards
Beg
-
Hi Hettyhen,
To answers your queries:
Why did Mary Ann & Frederick wait until 1917 to marry, were they living together and was Mary Ann married to someone else?
You might not get an answer to the first question. For the second, look for them on electoral rolls living at the same address. And I suggest you purchase a printout of their 1917 marriage certificate which should tell you Mary Ann's maiden name and if she was divorced.
Why do the children have a 1917 register number, why not a number in their birth year. Would that mean that Frederick adopted them after the marriage?
Not necessarily. I suggest you contact NZ BDM (Internal Affairs) and ask.
Who was the father of C.J.A “Jack” ?
Again, his birth certificate should provide the answers. Again, ask for a printout.
Spades
-
Hi Heather
Here is the birth registration for "Cecil John Alexander RIDLER" :
NZ Births
1900 / 16689 - BROKER* - Cecil John
Mother : Mary Ann Father : N/R
Date of birth (as deduced from online Birth Registration listing) = 9 October 1900 :
[Note: "BROKER" may just be a spelling error ?
Checking the Birth microfiche might sort it out ? ]
The birth was registered at Wellington.
~ Lu
-
NZ Marriage
Mary Ann BROKER - John PHIPPS -- Year : 1901
~ Lu
-
NZ Birth
1879 /2704 - BROKER - Mary Ann
Parents : Emma and William
~ Lu
-
Divorce of Mary Ann :
PHIPPS v. PHIPPS
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTR19161209.2.20.5
~ Lu
-
Lu, Spades & Beg,
Thank you very much, even an article from the good old "Truth" to keep. Am just about to go out so will check all these answers tomorrow. I should have tried harder with the "Phipps" and maybe found that connection, but it's all good experience in the hunt for the next hard to find family member.
Thanks
HeatherR
-
Frederick married in 1917 Mary Ann BROOKER. C1868 (no birth found)-27 Dec 1952.
Death Reg'n. for Mary Ann RIDLER - 1952 - shows she was 74 years .. so born c. 1878. ;)
-
It seems that the births of the following children may have originally been registered as PHIPPS.
1909 - PHIPPS - Vera Olive
1911 - PHIPPS - Winnie May
[Both Registered at Wellington. ]
Maybe check Births microfiche under PHIPPS (ideally the entries should show that an alteration to surname has taken place ... with a number which usually indicates the year alteration was made.
e.g. -----/17 (year: 1917)
~ Lu
-
Hi Heather
Have some info to post soon regarding electoral listings for Sarah RIDLER (HOOKER), plus additional cemetery information, which in turn leads to the hunt for a man (with a very common "handle" ) who is taking a bit of "flushing out". Will get back when I've sorted this out.
~ Lu
-
Lucy2,
Sorry my age subtraction was 10 years out, just to confuse things even more.
The first probate for Sarah RIDLER has a statement by Frederick William, her son, who says "she was married once only, and divorced in or about the year 1904". See that she is buried in the RC section of the Cemetery so maybe they didn't marry but just lived together. Have checked the E/R for Sarah GREY & William George GREY together 1928 only him 1935, but haven't managed to track either of them any further as yet, a few W.G. Greys to choose from. Will email the library and see if they will forward the death notice.
The "Truth" item of PHIPPS v PHIPPS says "no disturbance to the birth statistics had occurred from the union", but if he had deserted her=NZ Times Oct 2nd 1916 'desertion of her for five years and upwards" the children need not be his. The 1905-06 Newtown Wgtn E/R shows Mary Ann in Holloway Road Married and John at Te Aro Boarding House Tarankai St Wgtn Central. Haven't got Mary Ann after that, but John 1911 at Abel Smith St. Wgtn Central Occ. Labourer. No John in Wgtn but a John PHIPPS Labourer appears 1919 Ellesmere & 1928 South Canterbury, could be a completely different John though!
The fiche are at the Hastings library and have not done a fiche search as yet, but will head out there next week and learn a new skill.
Am looking forward to your next post.
Cheers
HeatherR
-
Hi Heather
Just about to begin posting info for you (... and there's quite a lot) now that I've (hopefully) solved the mystery of Sarah.
~ Lu
-
Sarah RIDLER (nee HOOKER) (+ William George GREY ) :
_______
As previously given, Sarah RIDLER (or Sarah Ester - or Esther RIDLER) died as Sarah GREY at Palmerston North on 5 April 1933.
She was buried as Sarah GREY on 7 April 1933 in the RC Section - Terrace End Cemetery, Palmerston North.
Her headstone reads :
" Sarah Ester GREY - died 5 April 1933 - aged 52 years. R.I.P."
Another record from the cemetery reads :
"RC - Block 11 - Plot 11 : Purchased by William George GREY, 26 Russell Street, Palmerston North on 6-4-1933" :
-------
And after a long process of weeding out the many others of the names "William George GREY (and GRAY)" have arrived at who I think this man was. More of him later.
~ Lu
see next >>
-
Frederick George RIDLER born 1875- 22 Nov 1939, married in 1898 Sarah Esther HOOKER had a son Frederick William Thomas born 1899.They were divorced, Decree Nisi 8 Dec 1906. Sarah died 5 Apr 1933, but can’t find her birth, (could be anywhere) ....
Found Sarah's birth in New South Wales :
Births - AUS, NSW
1881
HOOKER - Sarah Easter [sic]
Father : Francis* HOOKER
Mother : Jane
Registered at : Walcha, NSW
.... also born to same couple
HOOKER - Mary J. -- 1883 - reg'd. Armidale, NSW
HOOKER - William T. -- 1885 - reg'd. Liverpool, NSW
[Probable marriage of parents : March 1878 - Queensland
Francis HOOKER - Jane COOK ]
[* Francis HOOKER later becomes "Frederick".]
-----
After following up on a girl I thought might be Sarah's sister, found that Sarah's parents plus more of her siblings, had settled in the Manawatu region.
see next >>
-
The first probate for Sarah RIDLER has a statement by Frederick William, her son, who says "she was married once only, and divorced in or about the year 1904". See that she is buried in the RC section of the Cemetery so maybe they didn't marry but just lived together. Have checked the E/R for Sarah GREY & William George GREY together 1928 only him 1935, but haven't managed to track either of them any further as yet, a few W.G. Greys to choose from.
Yes, several W.G. GREY's to choose from ;D ... and it took time to weed them out - using e/rolls, also directories (but in conjunction with e/rolls because they're not a terribly reliable resource as details weren't regularly updated).
Sarah's son Frederick William is correct in saying his mother married only once (to RIDLER). She certainly did not marry Mr. GREY (as he was still married until 1940's - more on this to follow.)
I can't find Sarah on e/rolls prior to 1922 (under any of her known surnames) ... but there is evidence that she was using the name "GREY" as far back as late 1920.
She is in Palmerston North from 1920 at least ... and as "Sarah GREY - married" with William George GREY - agent, residing at 93 Broad Street, in the 1922 Palmerston roll. Same listing for years 1925 (and 1928 and 1930) but living at 26 Russell Street ... also at this address - same years - is Sarah's widowed mother, Jane HOOKER. [Jane HOOKER in fact died at Palmerston Nth just a month before Sarah's death in 1933 - but is buried elsewhere. ]
William George GREY appears to remain in P.Nth. until 1935 - thereafter returning to his family (1938) in Auckland.
-----
William George GREY ... there were a number of them, but to confuse the issue, two living in the Manawatu area. [Was able to rule out the policeman of that name who had a wife Mary May.]
Annoyingly, the guy WG GREY who was with Sarah, only ever had "agent" as his occupation.
In 1914 though, there are two e/roll listings at Napier and Palmerston for a William (agent) and May GREY c/- Albion Hotel, Napier ... and on the Palmerston supplementary roll for William George GREY - insurance agent, and May GREY, married, c/- Railway Hotel, Palm. Nth. [I tend to think this WG GREY (1914) is the man, later with Sarah. No idea who May GREY (cool name :D) was, or where she went.
~ Lu more to follow >>
-
Link to the Will of Jane HOOKER (Sarah's mother) :
The Will is dated > 6 May 1921 > ... but wasn't probated until 1946 !! (Explanation for delay is provided by a daughter.)
Jane's children are all mentioned - including >
Sarah Ester HOOKER - Broad Street, Palmerston North
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-897J-V2PS?mode=g&i=61&cc=1865481
see next >>
-
Sarah ... mentioned in her father's 1920 obituary as " Mrs W. GRAY of Palmerston N."
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MH19201221.2.8
[Obit: Mr F. HOOKER - link found in "tree" of a Hooker family researcher. ]
see next >>
-
Sarah RIDLER (nee HOOKER) and William George GREY :
It appears that William George GREY left his wife and 8 children in Auckland probably around 1905. [He's probably the William George GREY - insurance agent - at Hamilton - on the 1905-06 Waikato e/roll ?]
William George GREY (born 1868 in Northland), married at the age of 18 years to Margaret McCABE in 1886. Although Post Office directories give them a common address for a couple of years, their "togetherness" is not borne out on the e/rolls. Three of their sons who enlisted for WW1 service, all gave their mother's name as next-of-kin ... and can also be found sharing an Auckland address with her over the years ... it's not until late 1930's that WG GREY, now retired, is back with family.
By 1938 WG GREY had returned to Auckland and was living in the same Vincent Avenue (or Road) area as some of his adult children and his estranged wife. When Margaret GREY died in 1943, her husband was not mentioned in her death notice. (He died 1951).
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19430924.2.2.5
----
All this garnered information relating to William George GREY seemed a bit "airy-fairy" for a while > esp. his leaving a wife and 8 children ... and later (sort of) returning to them ::) > ... and it wasn't until I re-read the 2nd Probate file for Sarah RIDLER (HOOKER) that I realised the significance of the year, 1951.
~ Lu continues next >>
-
William George GREY :
Otahuhu Cemetery - Auckland
Headstone transcription :
"IMO William George GREY who died 13 June 1951- aged 84 years."
Link to Probate file >
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSZD-G9KS-L?i=208&cc=1865481&cat=2240878
[He had specified in his Will ... "I direct that my dead body shall be cremated and my ashes thrown to the four winds". ? ]
---------
Sarah RIDLER (HOOKER's) 2nd Probate file is dated 1951 and concerns an Application for Administration of her estate by her son and heir, Frederick William Thomas RIDLER following the discovery of a Post Office Savings Bank account at Palmerston North in the (partial) name of Sarah HOOKER.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L97B-44R3?mode=g&i=444&cc=1865481
Of importance though is the son's statement at No. 11 where he describes the delay in applying for administration was due to the fact that the existence of the POSB account .... "was only brought to my notice on 18 August, 1951, by a solicitor who received the (POSB) Pass Book along with some other papers in another matter."
Note: It does seem very probable that the Pass Book was amongst the papers of the recently deceased William George GREY, whose estate was being wound up during the month's of July and August of 1951.
~ Lu
-
Lu,
Gosh you have really been busy and your help is invaluable in sorting out this branch of the family. Your flash of brilliance in noticing the date of William's death and linking it to the new probate for Sarah and tying them together is quite amazing.
My thoughts, so far, William George was overwhelmed by wife & 8 children, did a runner with May, surname unknown and fate unknown, maybe he tired of her, or was lured away by the charms of Sarah and when she died he finally decided that as he is getting older maybe he should return to the family and try to make amends. I like his statement "my ashes thrown to the four winds" , but if he has a Headstone maybe he wasn't. In his will, son George seems to only gets his inheritance in stages, must be a reason there. Cannot understand what he means in his codicil, especially, "one moiety of the capital of the expectant contingent or vested share" ???
The probate of Jane HOOKER gives her place of birth and also that of some of the children, and the Obituary of Mr.F Hooker also has a lot of family information. So will take a wee while to digest all this. Have emailed the Palmerston library for the death notice for Sarah, their website says they have family research helpers, so will await the arrival of same.
Many thanks
HeatherR
-
Here is the Death Notice for Sarah,was lurking in Hotmail, very good service from the library.
HeatherR
-
Have been doing some tidying up and searching and there is another BROKER birth with Mary Ann and Father NR. A'try have the birth at Christchurch. Haven't found anything more on Ethel as yet as a Brooker, Broker or Phipps. There is an Ethel PHIPPS marriage in 1911, but she would be only 13 so probably not her. But will keep trying.
HeatherR
-
The next exciting instalment!.
Went to the Library this morning and checked the fiche records.
Vera, Winnie, Albert & Douglas were all registered as PHIPPS in their Year of Birth, but on the 1917 list are down as RIDDLER. On NZBDM spelt correctly with only 1 “D”
PHIPPS Stanley George death 1907/3587 (31 Mar 1907) buried as Stanley George RIDLER but unable to find birth 1906 or 1907 as BROKER, BROOKER, RIDLER or PHIPPS.
Grey hair moment = can’t remember if I tried the 2 “D” spelling or not!
The Ethel BROKER in previous post died 6 Feb 1916 age 17 as BROOKER in “Nurse English’s Private Hospital Hastings”. And on 9 Feb 1916 Harriet BROOKER died at Napier Hospital age 39.
Dying so close together thought they may have been in an accident but no newspaper report of one found so far.
They are both buried in the same grave at Hastings Cemetery, no headstone, plot bought by William BROOKER, uncle of Ethel. Harriet & Ethel are “Late of Ashburton” where there seem to have been a whole lot of BROOKER families.
William’s parents are Emily & William whereas Mary Ann’s are Emma & William and not knowing where Mary Ann was born there may well be two Williams, one with an Emma and the other with an Emily.
Have just looked at my Grandmother’s 1885 birth cert and there is a lot of information there so may lash out on a printout of Mary Ann’s birth to see if she is connected to the Ashburton family or not.
Cheers
HeatherR.
-
Have just looked at my Grandmother’s 1885 birth cert and there is a lot of information there so may lash out on a printout of Mary Ann’s birth to see if she is connected to the Ashburton family or not.
Cheers
HeatherR.
Hi Heather ... hold on to your $$. ;)
I looked at this family earlier - (and had explored a bit further when I found the somewhat puzzling death notices for the two BROOKER girls).
Just hadn't got around to posting on here but will do so shortly.
~ Lu
-
Lu,
Thank you, have put it back into the piggy bank for next time. ;D
HeatherR
-
The Ethel BROKER in previous post died 6 Feb 1916 age 17 as BROOKER in “Nurse English’s Private Hospital Hastings”. And on 9 Feb 1916 Harriet BROOKER died at Napier Hospital age 39.
They are both buried in the same grave at Hastings Cemetery, no headstone, plot bought by William BROOKER, uncle of Ethel. Harriet & Ethel are “Late of Ashburton” where there seem to have been a whole lot of BROOKER families.
Hi Heather
The death notices for these BROOKER women, were rather "odd" I thought. [Although it's only after searching a bit further, that I found there was a connection.]
Strange ... deaths three days apart ... separate death notices but published same day ... and family not mentioned for either of them ???
However, the info I gathered, differed slightly from yours above, so will add it here. ;)
* Ethel BROOKER - d. 6 February 1916 ... aged 17 and a half years (as per death notice).
[This fits well with the birth registration for Ethel BROKER - 3rd quarter 1898 - at Christchurch. ]
* Only Harriet BROOKER is identified as being formerly of "Ashburton".
[Didn't find her on any electoral rolls. ]
Incidentally, the names BROKER and BROOKER are interchangeable for the many records found for this particular family.
* Ethel BROOKER and Harriet BROOKER are not actually in the "same grave".
The Hastings Cemetery Burial records show the following :
Plot 102**. - purchased 10 February 1916 - BROOKER - Harriett - 10 Feb. 1916
Plot 103. - purchased 7 February 1916 - BROOKER - Ethel - 7 February 1916
- NOONAN* - Clarice - 23 May 1926
Wm. BROOKER is noted as being the purchaser of both of these plots.
[* NOONAN - Clarice - buried 23 May 1926 :
This lady appears to have been "Clarice Emily BROOKER" - born 1898, the daughter of Henry BROOKER and Eilleen (spelling ?) Margaret BROOKER (commonly known as Margaret).
Clarice Emily BROOKER had married Thomas NOONAN in 1923. ]
** And while it isn't noted in the Burial records, the online Hastings Cemetery record shows the following interment in Plot 102 - with Harriet BROOKER :
NOONAN (Premature Child) - buried 17-2-1925
-------
My guess it that these two BROOKER women may have died of sickness (rather than in an accident). Possibly Harriet was a recent arrival in Hawke's Bay? Just a hunch. They were though related - being niece and aunt. ;) More to follow.
~ Lu see next >>
-
William’s parents are Emily & William whereas Mary Ann’s are Emma & William and not knowing where Mary Ann was born there may well be two Williams, one with an Emma and the other with an Emily.
The birth of Mary Ann BROKER was registered 1879 at Ashburton.
[Yes, NZBDM's online listing shows her mother as "Emma" but this is simply a diminutive of the name "Emily". Have other records (to come) which shows she was known by both names. ;) ]
Births also registered at Ashburton (parents : William and Emily)
BROKER :
1881- Helen (Ellen) Elizabeth
1883 - William
1883 - Arthur [died in infancy]
1885 - Rebecca
1888 - Maude Emily
-
BROKER / BROOKER :
The BROKER family of William and Emily arrived as assistant emigrants to Canterbury on the ship "Opawa" in 1877. In the side column is a note that they are destined for Ashburton.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6FMW-JYF?mode=g&i=2&cc=1609792
BROKER
- William - 35 - carpenter - ex Sussex*
- Emily - 28
- Henry - 14
- Edwin (Edward ?) - 13
- Clara - 10
- John - 7
- Harriet - 7 months
[* "Sussex" is given as county. Sometimes this mean "native place / place of origin" but can also refer to the last county in which they resided. It seems though that the BROKERs hailed from Gloucestershire ? ]
see next >>
-
UK Census :
1871 -
Gloucestershire > East Dean > St. Johns
BROKER
- William - 38 - carpenter - no place of birth recorded
- Emily - wife - 25
- Henry - son - 6
- Edward - son - 4
- Clara - dau - 2 ... all others born Gloucestershire
-
BROKER - Baptisms
Cinderford - St. John the Evangelist Church - Forest of Dean (East Dean) - Gloucestershire
* Clara BROOKER - bapt. 4 April 1869
d/o William (carpenter) and Emma - residence: Cinderford
* Edwin BROKER - bapt. 13 January 1867
s/o William (carpenter) and Emma - of Cinderford
* Henry BROKER - also bapt. 13 January 1867
s/o William and Emma (details as above)
* John BROOKER - bapt. 2 July 1871
s/o William and Emma (details as above)
* Harriet BROOKER - bapt. 24 December 1876
d/o William and Emma (details as above)
[Note: Mother is shown as "Emma" in all of these baptisms. ;) ]
next >>
-
Do you already have the maiden name of "Emily" / "Emma" ??
This looks to be the marriage ?
Parish Church of Newland > Gloucestershire > ENG
27 December 1863
William BROOKER - 25 - bachelor - Labourer - of Redbrook
-- Father: John BROOKER - Labourer
Emma POWELL - 19 - spinster - of Redbrook
-- Father : John POWELL - Labourer
..... bride and groom both signed "X" (their mark)
-
OBIT - William BROKER (senior) :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AG19110722.2.18
He is buried at Ashburton Cemetery.
-
Death Notice - William BROKER (Senior)
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AG19110722.2.13
-
Link to Ashburton Cemetery :
http://infoservices.adc.govt.nz/Cemeteries/
Burials for BROKER
- William (senior) - 1911
- Edward (?) - 1925
- Clara - 1885 - aged 15
- John (?) - 1960 - aged 89
-
Lu,
Thank you for more to print out, sort out & add to the file. There was a death notice for Ethel in the Ashburton Guardian 8 Feb 1916, = "..at the residence of her Uncle, W. Brooker, Hastings, Ethel Brooker, late of Hugh Street, Hampstead; aged 17 years." but haven't found one in that paper for Harriet. See on your 1871 census that Henry, was an older brother of William, 17 years if my maths are correct this time!
Also another snippet from Ashburton Guardian 11 Nov 1903, = "I will not be answerable for any debts contracted by my wife, Emliy Brooker, from this date.-William Brooker November 7th 1893"
From memory after William died in 1911 Emily married a Mr Ede, but she appears to be in the same grave at Ashburton as William and children Arthur & Clara, who died 1884 age 15. Will go back and check the remarriage and other snippets found in Paperspast, but ignored until now.
As I was replying to you, two more messages arrived. So far only had the BDM Marriage, Dec 1863 Monmouth 11a 54= Brooker William, Powell Emma as a maybe, but your research confirms that and
also that Emily & Emma are one and the same.
Is there any way to work out where Mary Ann BROKER and John PHIPPS were married, 16 Sept 1901/3098, without buying the print out?
Thanks
HeatherR
and a 3rd with more details from Ashburton cemetery.
Thanks again.
-
Emily (a.k.a. Emma) BROKER
Emily BROKER (widow) married Benjamin EDE of Ashburton on 16 March 1916 (which was after the death of her daughter Harriet and g/daughter, Ethel).
[I did wonder if Ethel had maybe lived previously with her grandmother Emily at Ashburton (and possibly Harriet lived there with her widowed mother too ?)
William BROOKER (junior) and his older brother Henry BROOKER can be found at Waipukurau from about 1900. Maybe the brothers (uncles) offered a home to Harriet and Ethel ? ]
Emily EDE died in 1928 aged 81 years. She was buried at Ashburton Cemetery on 4 August 1928 and shares a plot with her first husband, William BROKER.
... next >
-
... whoops ... I see I've repeated info you already had. ;D
Will look over your reply shortly . I have trouble posting here mid-afternoons ... everything seems to seize up for about an hour, then it comes right. Annoying if you're in the middle of adding something. ::)
-
... duh ... I completely missed the death notices in the "Ashburton Guardian".
Anyway, here is the one for Harriet.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AG19160211.2.2.1
-
There was a death notice for Ethel in the Ashburton Guardian 8 Feb 1916, = "..at the residence of her Uncle, W. Brooker, Hastings, Ethel Brooker, late of Hugh Street, Hampstead; aged 17 years." but haven't found one in that paper for Harriet.
Emily BROKER resided at Hugh Street, Hampstead ... 1911 / 1914 / ... even in 1919 there's a listing which hasn't been removed from roll (though she's shown as Emily EDE in the Ashburton supplementary roll of 1919.)
-
In case you haven't seen it, the Will of Benjamin EDE >
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9M7-Z836?mode=g&i=43&cc=1865481
[Rather sweet ... he bequeaths property to a grandson with a proviso that Emily have two rooms in the dwelling house, plus he should also provide Emily with ... "all the fruit she may require and whatever vegetables she may require for her own use." ;D ]
-
Is there any way to work out where Mary Ann BROKER and John PHIPPS were married, 16 Sept 1901/3098, without buying the print out?
... Intention to Marry notices are only indexed up to 1881 so unless you are absolutely certain about where the marriage occurred, then it's not really reasonable to request a lookup of same. :D
I thought that the wording in the account of the PHIPPS v. PHIPPS divorce (earlier in thread), suggested that they may have wed in Wellington ... "16 September 1901 ... after inhabiting Wellington for some time ... " ???
I can't find John PHIPPS on a Wellington roll before or around 1900-01 ??
~ Lu
-
Divorce of Mary Ann :
PHIPPS v. PHIPPS
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTR19161209.2.20.5
~ Lu
^ link to Divorce article.
Also ... the birth of the child Cecil John BROKER - was registered at Wellington in the 4th quarter of 1900.
~ Lu
-
Lu, Thank you for the will reference, haven’t seen a bequest like that before!
Just a few more bits to add before I close this thread once again.
Have been trying to track this family and they seem to live in Hastings and/or Pakipaki (about 7 km south of Hastings) where the men worked at the freezing works.
Henry and Margaret were living at Pakipaki as meat inspector at Borthwicks Freezing works when the 1931 Hawke’s Bay earthquake happened. See link to grandson’s recollection.
http://collection.mtghawkesbay.com/search.do;jsessionid=q7M1iv7o7FgDBLDFD-3vv8+U?id=43847&db=object&page=1&view=detail
Henry was killed, death NZBDM 3 Feb 1931/908 as BROOKES age given as 65=yob of 1866,
and various other DOBs of 1863, 1865, 1866.
Margaret COGHLAN in the “Recollection” is referred to as “other family members” but haven’t found a link as yet.
1928 COGHLAN family are Isabella, married to William David COGHLAN, Pakipaki shepherd.
1935 E/R Margaret COGHLAN c1910 on as spinster, but no sign of Isabella & William David COGHLAN.
1935 E/R BROOKER Dorothy May spinster, Elizabeth married, Hilda Irene spinster, William yardman & William David drover all live at Pakipaki.
In the search found another birth with mother Mary Ann DOB 13 Jan 1891 which would make
Mary Ann born 6 Jan 1879 only just 12, so maybe not hers.
Also, another Bride's Christian name, unrelated to this family but just popped out at me!
HeatherR
-
Hi Heather
I have only just picked up this discussion, and if I had seen it earlier I would have saved all the searching that others have been doing, because Mary Ann was my grandmother and her husband Frederick was my grandfather and I have done a lot of research into them (apart from what I already knew) and which I have known for half a century - sound's awful, doesn't it.
I don't know how many keystrokes you are allowed on this site, and the story is more than a bit long. I understand that you say your grandmother was born in 1885, so that makes her Rebecca unless I am mistaken, or my records are wrong - that is, if she was born Broker/Brooker.
Let me know if you are interested in communicating on this, perhaps on e-mail.
Cheers
-
Hello angst1886,
Did try to get in touch with another grand daughter of Fred & Mary Ann a couple of years ago, when my nephew's new wife discovered another person working elsewhere in NZ with her new surname, but never had a reply to my email so thought it must not have made it through. My grandfather was Edwin James RIDLER 1871-1955. Fred's older brother by about 4 years and his wife, my grandmother, was Augusta May POSWILLO 1885-1976, no connection to the Broker/Brooker family.
Will send my email by pm so we can compare more notes.
Cheers
HeatherR
-
Hettyhen!
Please contact me as soon as possible, the Ridler family you are talking about are my family, my mum really wants to connect with you as her mum is Emily- Frederick and the 8 others’ sibling.
(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
I have gone through what I know and it seems you are my third cousin and my mothers second cousin! We are in Wellington.
-
We have lots to tell you, we know all about and have visited Karori Cemetery many times. Please PM me
-
Hello ashmac,
have sent you a personal message.
HeatherR