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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: nayngnottz94 on Sunday 05 March 17 12:19 GMT (UK)
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I've tracked my family back to the beginning of the 1800's with William Denham 1800-1874 and Eliza Davis 1808-1885, I believe the parents for William are Joseph Denham and Lydia Whitehouse, I believe the answer to Lydia's family lies here.
https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/search/master/?type=person&source=&search_type=person&master_event=Births+%26+Baptisms&fn=Lydia&phonetic_mode_fn=1&sn=Whitehouse&phonetic_mode_sn=1&kw=&yr=1720&range=50&search=Search
but I am yet to sign up to that site as £40.00 a month is a bit steep for something that may not turn out to be what I'm looking for, I am already a member of Ancestry.co.uk
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is he this one.
1851 Handsworth, Staffordshire, England
William Denham 50 b Walsall
Eliza 42 b Birmingham
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I've tracked my family back to the beginning of the 1800's with William Denham 1800-1874 and Eliza Davis 1808-1885, I believe the parents for William are Joseph Denham and Lydia Whitehouse, I believe the answer to Lydia's family lies here.
Have you tried tracing his brother Joshua?
The Will of William Denham late of Walsall, Gentleman died 28th July 1874
Widow Eliza Denham & Joshua Denham brother wholesale harness furniture maker both
Executors of Walsall
Joshua died 6 April 1892 at Bay Tree House
Joshua 1843 marriage to Jane Guest is on Ancestry his father Joseph occ buckle maker
They name a daughter Lydia
There is this baptism but no further details
Joshua Denham
Baptism 29 Sep 1822 Saint Matthew,Walsall,Stafford,England
Father: Joseph Denham Mother: Lydia
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is he this one.
1851 Handsworth, Staffordshire, England
William Denham 50 b Walsall
Eliza 42 b Birmingham
Yep, just found this,
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is he this one.
1851 Handsworth, Staffordshire, England
William Denham 50 b Walsall
Eliza 42 b Birmingham
What I just linked you was 1849 Poll Books and Electoral Registers
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Transcription only
Joseph Denham to Lydia Whitehouse
Marriage 13 Jan 1812 West Bromwich
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
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I've tracked my family back to the beginning of the 1800's with William Denham 1800-1874 and Eliza Davis 1808-1885, I believe the parents for William are Joseph Denham and Lydia Whitehouse, I believe the answer to Lydia's family lies here.
Have you tried tracing his brother Joshua?
The Will of William Denham late of Walsall, Gentleman died 28th July 1874
Widow Eliza Denham & Joshua Denham brother wholesale harness furniture maker both
Executors of Walsall
Joshua died 6 April 1892 at Bay Tree House
Joshua 1843 marriage to Jane Guest is on Ancestry his father Joseph occ buckle maker
They name a daughter Lydia
There is this baptism but no further details
Joshua Denham
Baptism 29 Sep 1822 Saint Matthew,Walsall,Stafford,England
Father: Joseph Denham Mother: Lydia
Thank you lady hawk! I'll be sure to follow up on this and track his Brother
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Looking at the link you gave it lists three baptisms for a Lydia Whitehouse, in 1671, 1680 and 1726. All of which make it impossible for any of them to be the mother of William.
The fourth baptism names Lydia Whitehouse as the mother of Elizabeth, the child being baptised.
Emeltom
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There are these baptisms for persons named Lydia Whitehouse
Lydia Whitehouse
29 May 1776 Cannock, St Luke
Anglican
parents Thos & Lydia
Archive reference D3738
Register type Baptism & burial
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
Lydia Whitehouse
09 Aug 1779 Tipton, St Martin
Anglican
parents Edward & Hannah
Archive reference D3949/1/5
Register type Composite
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
Lydia Whitehouse
01 Nov 1786 Tipton, St Martin
Anglican
parents Joseph & Lydia
Archive reference D3949/1/5
Register type Composite
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
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Looking at the link you gave it lists three baptisms for a Lydia Whitehouse, in 1671, 1680 and 1726. All of which make it impossible for any of them to be the mother of William.
The fourth baptism names Lydia Whitehouse as the mother of Elizabeth, the child being baptised.
Emeltom
Well I know William Denham had a brother Joshua living fairly near who was alive at the time of his death, as he was named in the probate along with Williams wife. So I was unsure about Joseph & Lydia.
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.
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There are these baptisms for persons named Lydia Whitehouse
Lydia Whitehouse
29 May 1776 Cannock, St Luke
Anglican
parents Thos & Lydia
Archive reference D3738
Register type Baptism & burial
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
Lydia Whitehouse
09 Aug 1779 Tipton, St Martin
Anglican
parents Edward & Hannah
Archive reference D3949/1/5
Register type Composite
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
Lydia Whitehouse
01 Nov 1786 Tipton, St Martin
Anglican
parents Joseph & Lydia
Archive reference D3949/1/5
Register type Composite
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
Hmmmmmm, I really am stuck on this one!
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Baptism of William his father's occupation same as on m/c for his brother Joshua
William Denham born 24 Jun 1800 Walsall Staffordshire
father Joseph occ Buckle maker mother Lydia formely Whitehouse
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/3116
Description WARWICKSHIRE: Birmingham, Cannon Street (Baptist): Births
Record set England & Wales Non-Conformist Births And Baptisms
Birth was registered 25th April 1839
Informant was Sarah Smith sister of William Denham his nearest relative now
living Cordele Street near the railway station in Birmingham
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LYDIA Bullers
Date Of Birth 06 Feb 1832
Baptism Date 26 Feb 1832
Church, Abelwell St, Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Walsall
Parents SAMUEL and ANN Bullers, Ann nee Denham
Fathers Occupation Buckle maker
Notes; Maternal Grandparents Joseph & Lydia Denham****
LYDIA Denham Buried 9 May 1833 St Matthew, Walsall
Age 56
Abode George St
(birth c 1777)
Both on FreeREG
Bit confused as too Marriage 12 years after William was born?
EDIT I did notice a Tree having Lydia dying 1858. According to FreeREG she was age 17mths
GRO Index has her age 1
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Bit confused as too Marriage 12 years after William was born?
Had just found this on FreeREG giving as bit more detail of 1812 marriage - agree it's confusing
to be 12 years later - I can't see any other ???
All Saints 13 Jan 1812
Joseph DENHAM
Groom parish West Bromwich
Lydia WHITEHOUSE
Bride parish West Bromwich
Witness Michael POULTON
Witness Hannah WOODHALL
Register note Bride & Groom's conditions not given.
Bride & both Witnesses sign X
Register type Transcript
Transcriber notes
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Baptism of William his father's occupation same as on m/c for his brother Joshua
William Denham born 24 Jun 1800 Walsall Staffordshire
father Joseph occ Buckle maker mother Lydia formely Whitehouse
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/3116
Description WARWICKSHIRE: Birmingham, Cannon Street (Baptist): Births
Record set England & Wales Non-Conformist Births And Baptisms
Birth was registered 25th April 1839
Informant was Sarah Smith sister of William Denham his nearest relative now
living Cordele Street near the railway station in Birmingham
Ah so Joseph must have had a daughter non related to Lydia!
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I added Lydias Burial after posting earlier info.
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FreeREG has these Baptism to Joseph/Lydia;
ANN 8 March 1813
ANN/FREDERICK 29 Sept 1822
So was Ann Bapt twice?
She must be the same as she would have been age 20ish to have Lydia Bullers in 1832
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1841 we have Frederick Denham 1811
1851 Fredk Denham born 1809 Walsall
1871 Frederick Denham ditto
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Bit confused as too Marriage 12 years after William was born?
Had just found this on FreeREG giving as bit more detail of 1812 marriage - agree it's confusing
to be 12 years later - I can't see any other ???
All Saints 13 Jan 1812
Joseph DENHAM
Groom parish West Bromwich
Lydia WHITEHOUSE
Bride parish West Bromwich
Witness Michael POULTON
Witness Hannah WOODHALL
Register note Bride & Groom's conditions not given.
Bride & both Witnesses sign X
Register type Transcript
Transcriber notes
Was it a must do thing back then then to be married before children?
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FreeREG has these Baptism to Joseph/Lydia;
ANN 8 March 1813
ANN/FREDERICK 29 Sept 1822
So was Ann Bapt twice?
She must be the same as she would have been age 20ish to have Lydia Bullers in 1832
the first baptism was in an independant chapel, the second in a CofE establishment. perhaps someone had an issue with her baptism by nonconformists. having said that, her children are baptised in the nonconformist chapel
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Bit confused as too Marriage 12 years after William was born?
Had just found this on FreeREG giving as bit more detail of 1812 marriage - agree it's confusing
to be 12 years later - I can't see any other ???
All Saints 13 Jan 1812
Joseph DENHAM
Groom parish West Bromwich
Lydia WHITEHOUSE
Bride parish West Bromwich
Witness Michael POULTON
Witness Hannah WOODHALL
Register note Bride & Groom's conditions not given.
Bride & both Witnesses sign X
Register type Transcript
Transcriber notes
Was it a must do thing back then then to be married before children?
I'm wondering - do we know how old Joseph was? There are four children baptised to Joseph and Hannah between 1786 and 1792, including a Sarah, all in Bridge St Independent Chapel, Walsall, where Ann is baptised in 1813 and favoured by the Denham descendent.
The late marriage of Joseph and Lydia (and late recording of William) could be related to there being a first Mrs Denham. there's a marriage on 12 Nov 1783 between Joseph denham and Hannah Bott at St Matthew, Walsall
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Bit confused as too Marriage 12 years after William was born?
Had just found this on FreeREG giving as bit more detail of 1812 marriage - agree it's confusing
to be 12 years later - I can't see any other ???
All Saints 13 Jan 1812
Joseph DENHAM
Groom parish West Bromwich
Lydia WHITEHOUSE
Bride parish West Bromwich
Witness Michael POULTON
Witness Hannah WOODHALL
Register note Bride & Groom's conditions not given.
Bride & both Witnesses sign X
Register type Transcript
Transcriber notes
Was it a must do thing back then then to be married before children?
I'm wondering - do we know how old Joseph was? There are four children baptised to Joseph and Hannah between 1786 and 1792, including a Sarah, all in Bridge St Independent Chapel, Walsall, where Ann is baptised in 1813 and favoured by the Denham descendent.
The late marriage of Joseph and Lydia (and late recording of William) could be related to there being a first Mrs Denham. there's a marriage on 12 Nov 1783 between Joseph denham and Hannah Bott at St Matthew, Walsall
Not a clue how old Joseph was, all i have is his name, and that he had a child called Anne, and William
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Bit confused as too Marriage 12 years after William was born?
Had just found this on FreeREG giving as bit more detail of 1812 marriage - agree it's confusing
to be 12 years later - I can't see any other ???
All Saints 13 Jan 1812
Joseph DENHAM
Groom parish West Bromwich
Lydia WHITEHOUSE
Bride parish West Bromwich
Witness Michael POULTON
Witness Hannah WOODHALL
Register note Bride & Groom's conditions not given.
Bride & both Witnesses sign X
Register type Transcript
Transcriber notes
Was it a must do thing back then then to be married before children?
I'm wondering - do we know how old Joseph was? There are four children baptised to Joseph and Hannah between 1786 and 1792, including a Sarah, all in Bridge St Independent Chapel, Walsall, where Ann is baptised in 1813 and favoured by the Denham descendent.
The late marriage of Joseph and Lydia (and late recording of William) could be related to there being a first Mrs Denham. there's a marriage on 12 Nov 1783 between Joseph denham and Hannah Bott at St Matthew, Walsall
Anne's birthdate is 26 Feb 1813 her baptism date is 8 Mar 1813 > Baptism place Bridge Street Independent,Walsall,Stafford,England
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Bit confused as too Marriage 12 years after William was born?
Had just found this on FreeREG giving as bit more detail of 1812 marriage - agree it's confusing
to be 12 years later - I can't see any other ???
All Saints 13 Jan 1812
Joseph DENHAM
Groom parish West Bromwich
Lydia WHITEHOUSE
Bride parish West Bromwich
Witness Michael POULTON
Witness Hannah WOODHALL
Register note Bride & Groom's conditions not given.
Bride & both Witnesses sign X
Register type Transcript
Transcriber notes
Was it a must do thing back then then to be married before children?
I'm wondering - do we know how old Joseph was? There are four children baptised to Joseph and Hannah between 1786 and 1792, including a Sarah, all in Bridge St Independent Chapel, Walsall, where Ann is baptised in 1813 and favoured by the Denham descendent.
The late marriage of Joseph and Lydia (and late recording of William) could be related to there being a first Mrs Denham. there's a marriage on 12 Nov 1783 between Joseph denham and Hannah Bott at St Matthew, Walsall
Just found this on ancestry but of course its only a hint!
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Says Joseph was 35 in 1861 🤔
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There was a Mary Anne Denham and a Sarah also in the household! Sarah was age 7 Mary age 4
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Copyright image removed by moderator
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William was born in 1800 so this bloke cant be his father,
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I've tracked my family back to the beginning of the 1800's with
William Denham 1800-1874 and
Eliza Davis 1808-1885
Can I just confirm that this is your William Denham on the censuses
1841
Lionel Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire
William Denham 1800 occ Cooper -
Eliza 1808 Warwickshire
Alfred 1827 Warwickshire
Maria 1833 Warwickshire
Thomas 1834 Warwickshire
Clara 1840 Warwickshire
1851
Finch Street, Handsworth, West Bromwich, Staffordshire
William Denham 1801 Walsall, Staffordshire occ Cooper Empy 2 Men
Eliza 1809 Birmingham
Rosa 1833
Clara 1841
William 1845
Julia 1848
1861
138, Hatherton Street, Walsall, Staffordshire,
written above Eliza’s name
Denham Head Absent
Eliza Denham Married 1808
Clara E 1841
William 1845
Julia 1848
GRO indexes give mother's maiden name DAVIS
1840 Clara Eliza DENHAM
1845 William Henry DENHAM
1847 Julia Agnes DENHAM
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I've tracked my family back to the beginning of the 1800's with
William Denham 1800-1874 and
Eliza Davis 1808-1885
Can I just confirm that this is your William Denham on the censuses
1841
Lionel Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire
William Denham 1800 occ Cooper -
Eliza 1808 Warwickshire
Alfred 1827 Warwickshire
Maria 1833 Warwickshire
Thomas 1834 Warwickshire
Clara 1840 Warwickshire
1851
Finch Street, Handsworth, West Bromwich, Staffordshire
William Denham 1801 Walsall, Staffordshire occ Cooper Empy 2 Men
Eliza 1809 Birmingham
Rosa 1833
Clara 1841
William 1845
Julia 1848
1861
138, Hatherton Street, Walsall, Staffordshire,
written above Eliza’s name
Denham Head Absent
Eliza Denham Married 1808
Clara E 1841
William 1845
Julia 1848
GRO indexes give mother's maiden name DAVIS
1840 Clara Eliza DENHAM
1845 William Henry DENHAM
1847 Julia Agnes DENHAM
that's the one
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That Alfred is the bloke who shot him self in the head!
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Quote from Mabel;
'm wondering - do we know how old Joseph was? There are four children baptised to Joseph and Hannah between 1786 and 1792, including a Sarah, all in Bridge St Independent Chapel, Walsall, where Ann is baptised in 1813 and favoured by the Denham descendent.
BURIALS;
11 Nov 1792, St Matthews Burial Ground, Walsall, HANNAH, Wife of JOSEPH Denham
25 Dec 1836, St Matthew, Walsall, JOSEPH Denham age 72, abode Rushall St (Birth c 1764)*****
So very possible that Joseph was married twice.
Joseph/Hannah Baptised Children;
JOHN 1786
SARAH 1788
EDMUND 1790
JOSEPH 1792, born 1791
JOSEPH Denham Baptised 25 Sept 1764, St Matthew, Walsall
Father EDWARD, Mother ANN
Sibling EDMUND, 27 May 1766, Parents EDMUND/ANN
(Edward/Edmund are inter-changable)
MARRIAGE 6 Sept 1762 same Church
Edmund DENHAM, Bachelor to Ann LOWBRIDGE, Spinster
Notes; By Licence. Groom and witnesses sign the register. Bride signs (X).
All above in FreeREG
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Re Sarah Smith, Williams Sister 1788 ;
1851 Census
Birmingham, Warwickshire
Thomas SMITH, 40, Head, Mar, ? Pistol Maker, born Birmingham
SARAH Smith, 63, Wife, Mar, born 1788 Walsall, Staffordshire*******
Jeremiah Ginder, 31, Mar, Gun Finisher, born Walsall
Ann Ginder, 31
John Z Ginder, 3
Julia A Ginder, 10
Sarah DENHAM married Edward GINDER 25 May 1812, St Lawrence, Darlaston, Staffordsgire
JOHN Denham was a Witness
(FreeREG)
F/S has several Children to Edward/Sarah Ginder, but cant find Jeremiah
Marriage F/S.Org;
Sarah GINDER to Thomas SMITH, 25 February 1839, Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick, England
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I've tracked my family back to the beginning of the 1800's with
William Denham 1800-1874 and
Eliza Davis 1808-1885
Can I just confirm that this is your William Denham on the censuses
1841
Lionel Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire
William Denham 1800 occ Cooper -
Eliza 1808 Warwickshire
Alfred 1827 Warwickshire
Maria 1833 Warwickshire
Thomas 1834 Warwickshire
Clara 1840 Warwickshire
1851
Finch Street, Handsworth, West Bromwich, Staffordshire
William Denham 1801 Walsall, Staffordshire occ Cooper Empy 2 Men
Eliza 1809 Birmingham
Rosa 1833
Clara 1841
William 1845
Julia 1848
1861
138, Hatherton Street, Walsall, Staffordshire,
written above Eliza’s name
Denham Head Absent
Eliza Denham Married 1808
Clara E 1841
William 1845
Julia 1848
GRO indexes give mother's maiden name DAVIS
1840 Clara Eliza DENHAM
1845 William Henry DENHAM
1847 Julia Agnes DENHAM
Sorry my post was deleted, yes that is correct
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Re Sarah Smith, Williams Sister 1788 ;
1851 Census
Birmingham, Warwickshire
Thomas SMITH, 40, Head, Mar, ? Pistol Maker, born Birmingham
SARAH Smith, 63, Wife, Mar, born 1788 Walsall, Staffordshire*******
Jeremiah Ginder, 31, Mar, Gun Finisher, born Walsall
Ann Ginder, 31
John Z Ginder, 3
Julia A Ginder, 10
Sarah DENHAM married Edward GINDER 25 May 1812, St Lawrence, Darlaston, Staffordsgire
JOHN Denham was a Witness
(FreeREG)
F/S has several Children to Edward/Sarah Ginder, but cant find Jeremiah
Marriage F/S.Org;
Sarah GINDER to Thomas SMITH, 25 February 1839, Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick, England
Hi Trish, thank you for the hard research you've put in to this, this is very kind of you and i appreciate it ALOT, very very greatful
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I hope it all makes sense now :)