RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: robandi on Monday 06 March 17 00:49 GMT (UK)
-
My mother was Edith Amy Taylor she conceived me at the Chateau Tongariro in 1953.
Mum worked in the kitchen and to get extra money she did ironing for other employees.
She said that my father was named forename ???surname Bayliss the reason she was unsure which name was his was that he was picking up mail under both names
so this could be one person using 2 names or be 2 different people.
He was about 10 years older than her which would make him about 90 now.
he possibly had an accent, had olive skin and dark hair
I have spent a long time looking for him
Mum sued for maintenance in ?Kaitaia which he paid irregularly
-I have been there and the records relating to this case have been destroyed
-I have looked at the archives,Turnbull library and the court minute records with no luck
-I tried the social security they destroyed the records ?7 years after the child was 15
-I have tried looking for the chateau employees list they apparently have been destroyed
-the police gazettes are not available for a few more years
-papers past are not available for those years yet
-years ago I wrote to every Bayliss in the phone books and electoral rolls in NZ with no luck
does any one have any other ideas? thanks
-
Hi Robandi and welcome to RootsChat
He may have gone across the ditch? Have you looked for him in Oz?
He's not on Ryerson Index under either combination of names, 1953 onwards, but that doesn't rule out migration to Australia, just that there's been no notice indexed.
Dawn M
-
Hi Robandi,
It looks like you've researched all the obvious routes to find this individual.
Unfortunately, RootsChat has a privacy policy which prevents us from posting the names of living or possibly living persons, and as a result we aren't able to assist in living person searches other than providing general advice.
Because of this policy you will need to remove the individual's name from your post above (TIP: use the Modify button, make the changes, then click Save).
Having said that, you might find the suggestions in this topic of some help.
A Guide to Tracing Living Relatives in New Zealand
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=495373.0
And the New Zealand Society of Genealogists www.genealogy.org.nz have a search service for Maintenance Orders relating to illegitimate children. I don't know if this is available to non-members, but I strongly suggest that you contact them, and in any case they have excellent New Zealand-wide resources. Provide as much information as possible.
Spades
-
A death........
1996/42995 B Stewart 4 August 1917
Too old?
Minniehaha.
-
Would this be the death of your mother?
2009/2355 Skedgwell* Edith Amy 19 October 1933
*Comes up under Taylor on NZ BDM index.
Minniehaha.
-
If reply #3 is a possibility........
Cremation details:
http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/parksfacilities/cemeteries/Pages/northburialcremationrecords.aspx#
Probate details:
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=17025545
Then there is the following possibility:
Death:
2009 /28162 Bayliss Leslie S 11 October 1924
[I have his death notice which I can send to you by Personal Message. However you need to put up two more posts. Just a smiley :) will do for each.]
*I am aware your spelling has only one 's'.
Minniehaha.
-
A little more on possiblity number 2........
Photograph of his headstone:
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Leslie-Stewart-Bayliss/14818680#/
Minniehaha.
-
Hi robandi
I can also offer you some information regarding a possible "candidate" once you have 3 posts here so the information can be sent via the personal messaging facility. ;)
~ Lu
-
Mum sued for maintenance in ?Kaitaia which he paid irregularly
Hello.
You don't mention contacting the local library to see what advise they offer, re their local press and what holdings they might have, and if there are local genealogists who may be prepared to do a look up for you, if library staff are unable.
But I normally find local library staff very helpful, offering sound local advise.
The Northland Age has been in print since the 1930's. There was also the Hokianga Herald 1946 -1959 that could well have reported the Kaitaia Court news.
kaitaialibrary[at]fndc.govt.nz Ph. 09-408 9455
- Alan.
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @
OOP'S Thanks SPADES !
-
Hi Robandi
Did you think of seeing what any church baptism register might have noted for you? What about Education records for when you started school? Did your mum re-marry and were you perhaps adopted by a step-father -> then there may be an adoption record for you.
All else failing that what about :
Lost and Found
https://wbitvpnz.etribez.com/a/wbitvpnz/lostandfound3/welcome?ifr=1
Find my Family (AU)
http://tvnz.co.nz/find-my-family-australia/about-4715263
All the very best, and I will be following this thread with hope you have some success,
Twiggy
-
Thankyou very much spades for the maintenance information i have been a member of the NZSG for about 30 years and did not know of this
i have sent them the email and your reply i will post when i hear from them
-
I was not christened
Mum never put my fathers name on birth certificate or school records
i was not adopted by my step father
-
Thank you very much for the below info i will try them and see what i get
Lost and Found
https://wbitvpnz.etribez.com/a/wbitvpnz/lostandfound3/welcome?ifr=1
Find my Family (AU)
http://tvnz.co.nz/find-my-family-australia/about-4715263
-
Yes this is my mother
-
I have not worked out how to send a reply to a specific post so thank you everyone for all for this information and help
i will start searching again
-
Hi Robandi,
I think you're referring to Personal Messages (PM).
See here for a guide to PM's.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Spades
-
Robandi,
Have you looked at the Electoral rolls for that time? If he was a NZ citizen then he ought to be registered somewhere.
Phone books or Wises directory for the area in 1953?
Might your birth father have owned land somewhere in New Zealand? Searching a(n historic) land register would be a long shot until you know his exact names though.
Twiggy
-
thanks very
much i have not thought of those i will do that
i have been thinking that i may need to contact the family of Lesley Stewart Bentley as there is an address in the death certificate
but i think i would need to have a lawyer do that for me but i am not sure where i would find someone qualified
some one at my work suggested talking to the Salvation Army and see if they have a lawyer or could recommend some one
thanks for you help
Dianna
-
Hi
Have contacted the NZSG (Of which i have been a member for over 30years now) and they have a blanket ban of 100years on this information
which i dont understand as the archives have a ban on it for 60years so i am asking them to see if they can do the research for me or if i have to go there in person
so thanks for that information
I think that what annoys me so much about these bans is that if i were adopted i could see that information if the parent agreed after i think its 18 years now and what i want is no different
Dianna
-
Hi robandi
I can also offer you some information regarding a possible "candidate" once you have 3 posts here so the information can be sent via the personal messaging facility. ;)
~ Lu
Hi ... have now sent this info to you via PM.
~ Lu
-
Robandi
The Salvation Army have become known for tracing people and making initial contact with living relatives. I guess one advantage is that if you are unsure of where a person is, they have an international network.
http://www.salvationarmy.org.nz/need-assistance/family-tracing
You can of course do this yourself. It's a bit disconcerting, sure, but in the very few instances I have initiated, I believe that your pure intentions guide you in how to do this and what to say.
Twiggy
-
Hi There
i have researched Stewart B he was first in the electoral rolls as a customs clerk in wellington and eventually became a company director in Auckland so not much chance that he was my father
-
Robandi
Did you receive the information I sent to you via the personal messaging facility, here ??
~ Lu
-
Yes thank you it seem hes a good candidate
i got in contact with the salvation army tracing service to see if they could put me in contact with the family noted in the death notice
she suggested that i first contact inland revenue relating to my mothers account and using the official information act to look for the names in there, i talked to a man in ird and he told me that there is no mention of my fathers name in the mums records.
but i have given her the information that i have on my father and the searches that i have conducted previously to this date she is going to look at them to see if she can see something that we have missed. i also contacted the auckland archives about some one researching the records for me but they gave me a list of the records that were available to look at and none of them included the Kaitaia records
so i am still looking thank you Lu for you help, there are still a few places that people have suggested so i will continue looking
Dianna
-
The information you are using about your father.......how did it come to you. What did your mother tell you. Did someone else tell you...when, and in what context...in answer to your questions....volunteered to you?
Magistrates orders relating to maintenance matters were often reported in the newspapers. Might be something in a district newspaper.........maybe during 12 months after birth?
-
my mother told me when i was 15
just the info that i have when i tried to ask her more later in my life when it was more important to me she could not remember
some one suggested looking into the kaitaia age as its been going since the 1930 so that is my next step
thanks
-
Sometimes Citizens advice have free lawyers, Usually employment i think however, but might be worth a try.
-
thank you i will try them
-
....EDIT.....
Magistrates orders relating to maintenance matters were often reported in the newspapers. Might be something in a district newspaper.........maybe during 12 months after birth?
The TRUTH was the paper that specialized in reporting court cases across the country, but because you are wanting to research the 1950's the content will not be on line, so you would have to locate a Library that has copies, or micro film thereof, that might be read on their premises.
- Alan.
-
Can you confirm please, with regard to your father...........your mother was uncertain of his name.....and successfully sued him for maintenance, which he paid regularly.
And you received this information directly from your mother when you were about 15 years old.
So your mother must have known his name in order to take the matter to court, and for a magistrate to make an order for maintenance?
How old was your mother when you were born? Was your mother single?
When did you mother subsequently marry....how long after your birth?.
-
hi Viven
my mother saw my father collecting mail using the name stewart/stuart Bayliss
yes she sued for maintenance at Kaitaia which he irregularly paid
I was 15 when I found out but I was not interested in knowing who he was or wanted any further information until much later and by then she could not remember
mum was 21 when she had me and was single, 12 months later she married my step father
I have attempted to get a researcher in Kaitaia to check the Northland age but as of this time I have not been successful
I may need to go up there and look for myself, the Northland age started in the the early 1900s i have contacted them and they say that they have an archive that can be searched
Dianna
-
Hi There
sorry that i havent been talking to any one for a few weeks as i have a blood clot in my lungs so have not been doing anything much
i am going up to Kaitaia this weekend and going to be researching into the Northland Age news paper. The lovely lady that i spoke to today say they have and archive that i can look in for Magistrates orders relating to maintenance matters which were often ?? reported in the newspapers
my question is, is there anywhere else i can look for information while i am up there
also can anyone either tell me or direct me to where i can go to find about the privacy laws regarding information that has 100 year embargo on it, i have had so may different versions about it, the one that i am interested in finding out about is
if the embargoed information directly concerns you that you can access it can i or not
thanks Dianna
-
Have you tried this page, incase anyone else in NZ is looking?
https://web.facebook.com/groups/ReconnectFREE/?hc_location=ufi
If you ever do a DNA profile, maybe these NZ and AU people could help you?
https://web.facebook.com/groups/400009620157960/?hc_location=ufi
If your birthfather was using two names he may have been a stepson? Or adopted himself? You may need DNA matches to be sure about the right birthfather,even a match to a 1st cousin/2nd cousin may lead to him.
Generally where the 100 year privacy law is used they will not release the information so I wouldn't worry about it. (you will just get a refusal - keep trying!)
-
I have not ruled out this man out Stewart B died Auckland 1996? but not sure how to proceed from here i have got a copy the obituary for him
This man would have been about 33 in 1951 and about 100 now.
i have looked at the electrol rolls and he seems to be the most likely candidate as he was a cook/chef
this age seems about right as mum said she thought he was about 10 years older than her and she was 20 when i was conceived
-
I have not ruled out this man out ...... B died Auckland 1996? but not sure how to proceed from here i have got a copy the obituary for him
This man would have been about 33 in 1951 and about 100 now.
i have looked at the electrol rolls and he seems to be the most likely candidate as he was a cook/chef
this age seems about right as mum said she thought he was about 10 years older than her and she was 20 when i was conceived
Hello Robandi
I hope you are now on the road to recovery. :)
I am just going to take issue though with some of what you've reported above in respect of the man "B" (and I've deliberately removed his christian name - although he is the man shown as having died in 1996 in a following post ).
I think you need to read back over this thread (especially re: "B") - as well as the messages which have been sent to you via the PM facility here.
You say you have "looked at the electrol (sic) rolls" .... and "he seems to be the most likely candidate as he was a cook/chef".
If I'm not mistaken, it was I who sent you via PM, detailed electoral roll information for the man "Bayliss" ... and suggested "he seemed the most likely candidate" due to his occupation and the places he resided. Further info however revealed that was known to his family by his first given name. ? This was not information about "B" (who resided in Wellington with his wife from 1946 until about 1972.)
~ Lu
-
Hi Lu
after you gave me this info i checked out the electrol rolls for myself going back to year before my birth
the bentley that resided in wellington was a customs clerk in 1953 who appears to have worked his way up to company director prior to his death
i am not sure how to identify what is a personal message and what is an ordinary message
i reread everything last night as i am going to kaitaia tommorrow to research the court reports, hopefully they were reported on in the newspaper the northland age, so i reread all of the posts then in the hope that there was something that i might have missed and that i could have other lines of research while up there
thank you for your help
-
i am not sure how to identify what is a personal message and what is an ordinary message
To find your Personal Messages (PMs) go to top of this page and on the brown-coloured band, 6th item along, you'll see "MY MESSAGES" ... click on this to access.
~ Lu
-
You could try building a PRIVATE tree on ancestry to go backwards. If anyone families linked to Bayliss has DNA markers similar to yours then you've found the right guy.
**details removed**
-
hi there everyone i have managed to confuse everyone including myself with my previous messages
the person that i have followed thru the electoral rolls etc believing that he may be my father has the surname Bayliss as he was a cook chef not B
i am sincerely sorry for this mistake
Dianna
-
ok so -
Bayliss, born 1924
**details removed**
-
yes this is the one thanks
-
Guidance from Moderators Required please :
At the outset of this thread, the OP was requested to remove the christian names of persons named as "possible fathers" until it could be ascertained they were no longer living. As it transpired, both men were found to have died "relatively recently" (1996 and 2009).
In deciding to try and assist the OP with information which may have aided her search, I elected to send details via the PM facility here.
My purpose in doing so was twofold - but the most important aspect was to endeavour to protect the reputations of the two men who had initially been named. Certainly the christian names of the men had been removed (once) but have reappeared in later postings in this thread with links to cemetery records along with other personal information.
I put myself in the "shoes" of the families of these two men and wondered how I might feel if the name of say, my father, grandfather or a beloved uncle was bandied about in a thread of this type concerning paternity issues. ::) And considered also what effort might be required to absolve the innocent ??
Many threads of the type, "searching for birthparents", seem to be brought to a swift halt here at RootsChat with the enquirers being directed to other forums which are better able to assist them.
So along with others, I am curious to know if RC's policy on this type of search has changed to allow for such an explosion of detail to be published in a publicly-viewable thread; all or any of which may result in damage to the reputations of randomly-named (fairly recently deceased) persons.
Your guidance / comments, would be much appreciated.
~ Lu
-
Lu.
Have you directly PM'ed
SPADES NZ board Moderator.
SARAH & TRISTAN FOUNDING Moderator's.
Alan.
-
Lu.
Have you directly PM'ed
SPADES NZ board Moderator.
SARAH & TRISTAN FOUNDING Mderator's.
Alan.
Alan,I did last night,
Cheers Janette
-
Hello both spades and ourselves are in opposite time zones, I am just lucky to have been online when I received a request to look at this topic by fresh fields so I am first here. (this is the first I have seen on this )
In answer to your question No, nothing has changed with our rules. We do try to keep topics to the rules as much as we can but this is limited to what we are made aware of and what we are able to keep track of ourselves.
Spades is our New Zealand Moderator please allow for the time zone.
Regards
Sarah
-
hi there
if you had actually explained why you took the first names of these people out in the way you did last night i would have understood the reasoning and not put them in
i did not understand what the PM were until u explained to me how to get them the other day
dianna
-
Hi robandi,
No one is telling you off at all, and there are others in the thread who have used first names as well. Hopefully those who can will edit the information.
Being careful about privacy can help you get the information you are seeking. If a relative of your father is upset by finding this information publicly discussed they may refuse to assist you.
-
Perhaps everyone can edit their posts with first names in them/recent deaths (to make them unsearchable) as Dianna has all the details in her pm folder and now knows how to access them.
Dianna I would probably not concentrate on finding current living relatives. If you do DNA and have any Bayliss/Muir DNA in common with people already tested then you would know you are on the right track.
Modern day relatives may know nothing?
-
Hi robandi,
I have just edited the thread to correct for the fathers name.
Regards
Sarah
-
thank you i did not know how to edit the names
i am sorry that i have caused such a hassle for everyone
dianna
-
The post has been edited Thamesite, as I had pointed out yesterday.
Sarah
-
Good point Sarah but a similar thread was removed from the NZ board a couple of weeks ago,if folk are uncomfortable with the thread surely it would be better removed,I think we need consistancy so we know where we are,
Cheers Janette
-
The thread contains multiple references to other men even with surnames removed you can find some. Families of both sides deserve some privacy and I would like to see a ruling that this forum is not to be used for living people to hunt for birth parents.
Ps. I have every sympathy for the pain it must be to have to be on this journey, but privacy and respect for all. The internet is a crazy place and putting sensitive topics and details online is a step too far.
Thank you Thamesite :)
I absolutely agree with all you've said.
[And yes, there remains here, identifying references to the men initially named in this thread ... and to members of their families. ]
~ Lu
-
i am really sorry to have caused so much trouble to every one
i will not use your supposedly free service again the amount of pain you have caused me was not worth the process
-
i am really sorry to have caused so much trouble to every one
i will not use your supposedly free service again the amount of pain you have caused me was not worth the process
We on RC need to make sure other peoples privacy is kept private,we did not mean to cause you pain
Cheers Janette