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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: hintonsearcher on Monday 06 March 17 10:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi-
I am looking for help interpreting my late Grandfather's WW2 service records.
I am being hindered by RAF jargon and low-quality record reproduction! I have the standard list of abbreviations, but many of the ones I have are not listed.
Also, does anyone know how to interpret the numbers (eg 67/46 and 160/44)? The second number in the year,- is the first number a squadron number!?
As I think some of my problems are rooted in the difficulty of reading the handwriting, I shall attach a copy of the original, plus a copy of it with some of my interpretations.
Any help would be very gratefully received!
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
This might help:
https://ww2memories.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/common-abbreviations-on-ww2-raf-records-as/
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Thanks- I will take a look!
I have already interpreted much of it (see attachment) but am still struggling with the rest!
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Authority is usually either an Air Ministry Form (denoted by F eg F96) or a signal reference xx/yy where xx is the xxth sequential entry in an undefined signal log started in the year 19yy.
Remember you are looking at what was essentially the quick reference index sheet to a pile of other documents either enclosed in the service file or in the vast General Registry of RAF Records Section of Ruislip/Wantage or Gloucester.
The other documents have long been dispersed or destroyed as unwanted paper records leaving only the index sheet which served to answer expected questions on service for medal or pension purposes.
The Public Record Act in operation when the Service Record was created only required most if the enclosures to be maintained for 15 years after the airman became non-effective. Only the Ledger Sheet (enclosure log) was to be permanently preserved.
Ross
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Thanks Ross- yes, I realise it's never going to reveal much detail, but I had hoped to be able to work out the time line of when he went where and ideally his Squadron number.
So many parts of it are cryptic or illegible!
So frustrating!
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"Authority is usually either an Air Ministry Form (denoted by F eg F96) or a signal reference xx/yy where xx is the xxth sequential entry in an undefined signal log started in the year 19yy."
I guess the numbers are going to remain a mystery for ever, then!
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You have 99% of it or so in your hand written notes.
What was his mustering during the record ? - it looks like ground staff from the postings.
RAF was different to other services in that posting was to usually to establishment (trade skill requirement of formation) rather than to Squadron.
Every Formation had an establishment that set out what it needed for the role it was assigned. This ranged from the number of aircraft/vehicles it was permitted to hold down to the size of rug and type of waste bin that each office was fitted out with.
For personnel it was listed as Job Title/Permitted Rank/Number off/Required Trade or Branch for every position from Officer Commanding to lowest ACH.
If the Formation changed Theatre or Role then a new establishment was authorised and they gained/lost manpower and equipment as required.
To prevent duplication higher Formations such as Command, Group, Wing and Station contained trades that were considered central use for any attached Squadrons/Flights eg Admin, servicing beyond 1st line turnround, Catering, Welfare etc.
So if his trade was technical his service record could have no squadron postings as your one.
To further confuse - a person could be posted to a Formation not to fill an establishment post but as part of the immediate reserve of manpower that the Command retained in Theatre. To all intents and purposes they did the same work and training as establishment posted men but Command could repost them at will.
Does that help?
Ross
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Looking at his early RAF my observations are:
On entry to the RAF via Recruit Centre his first posting to Brize was before any trade training so it was a "placeholder" until space opened up at his muster trade training achool. At Brize he would have been used as an untrained man eg sweeping, message runner, fire watcher, guard etc.
when the course at Manston School of Technical Training (men) - not School of Air Nav, commenced he would have been trained as either a Rigger or Engine Mechanic (his Trade section will reflect in change from ACH/GD to actual trade at the end of the course).
From Manston he was posted to Establishment as trade looking after the day to day maintenance of aircraft of the Flying Training School.
Now while he was doing this the defence of Singapore had been examined and plans put into place to provide defence in depth. It was recognised that the island was vulnerable to attack overland. To counter this it was planned that the Army would move into the Malay peninsula to deny and be ready to move into Siam if required.
The small army force would be force multiplied (modern term) by extensive air support from RAF units which would be deployed to the Far East in advance of any hostility. This would allow ground to be held until support from Egypt, India and UK reached the ports.
Singapore was limited in the number of aerodromes and hence the number of aircraft that could be based there so the Malay air support would be carried out from a large number of new aerodromes that would be constructed in Malay.
During late 1940/early1941 the aerodromes were finished and set up with fuel, stores and munitions ready for the arriving aircraft.
Events in Europe now conspired to create the ground work for the fall of Singapore.
The invasion of the low countries reduced the impact the Dutch would have on any Japanese expedition and the Fall of France contributed to Japan being able to use French IndoChina (Vietnam) as a forward supply and massing point.
The proposed aircraft to be based on the new aerodromes were diverted to home use to defend Britain against invasion.
Also the move of Italy towards Egypt and Ethipoia had to be countered to maintain the Suez supply line so supplies and equipment were diverted to Egypt rather than reaching the Far East. Some RAF units were withdrawn from Singapore and India and diverted to Middle East.
Eventually in mid 1941/autumn 1941 the manpower to service the proposed aircraft to defend Singapore/Malay was embarked. This corresponds to his Far East posting date.
The Hurricanes that were to be based in Malay were being flown and loaded onto shipping at Liverpool on 7th Dec 1941 when the Japanese invaded Siam and the Malay peninsula.
The army was wrong footed and without the air cover was inadequate for the task. The Japanese advance was further aided by fuel and munition supplies captured at the newly constructed aerodromes which the army and RAF ground forces were struggling to destroy and deny.
With nothing to service the new RAF ground trades were a burden on ration and were withdrawn to Oz and India as soon as possible.
So thats the background and you can see where his postings fit into the general way of things without specific assignment to squadrons that did not exist in the theatre.
Ross
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Wow!
Thanks so much for that! I must admit I was a bit lost when you mentioned Formations/Establishments/Theatres etc, but now it's starting to make sense, along with the fact that he doesn't seem to have a Squadron number!
He was a metal worker by trade.
His trade is listed variously as ACH/MW, M/WKR CSM/WKR, CS4SM (?!)
His rank runs from AC2 in 1939 to LAC, T/lul(?), and CPL by 1947.
I know he repaired planes, never flew.
He told a tale of being posted in Malaya and being given the task of moving large quantities of 'stuff' down from a mountain, which the Japanese had put there. Later in life he met a man who job it has been to move the same 'stuff' up the said mountain in the first place!
At some point his wife received a letter from the army saying he was M.I.A., but later he turned up in England, having been in Australia! I guess this was some time around 1942, judging by his records.
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I don't suppose you know what the missing abbreviations are do you?
5 E.D. (13/3/42)
ANKA GARAGE (renamed?) S.E. Asia!?!?
R.F.E.R. (2/9/45)
Thanks again!
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Equipment Depot (possibly a corruption of Equipment and Supplies Depot - ESD) - remember this is the time where adhoc temporary units are being thrown up and disbanded in reactive knee jerks to suit the fluid situation so it may not be a clerical error but a short lived actual unit.
Anka Garage as above but as the situation solidifies reporting order is restored by the creation of South East Asia Air Command to control all RAF units in India, Burma and Ceylon - later to become ACSEA. Basically a paper transfer - everyone stayed in the same place and job - just changed the letter head on correspondence.
Not sure about RFER but in Sept 45 same knee jerks and short lived units as per Japanese Invasion but even more so on the surprise surrender after the A-Bombs.
Mountbatten was so short of manpower to police all the previously occupied territory he even used Japanese troops to prevent local factions filling the power vacuum.
T/lul(?) is T/Cpl or Temporary Corporal eg got the rank and responsibility but not confirmed as promoted (pay thing as a Temp may be with our without pay)
ACH/MW is Air Charge Hand/MW ie lowest of the low pending training as Metal Worker
M/WKR now trade trained as Metal Worker
CSM/WKR, CS4SM (?!) as war progesses new trades are created and older trades amalgamated to suit new aircraft construction materials so he is now "Coppersmith and Metal Worker or on the record CSM/WKR" and later Coppersmith and SheetMetal Worker.
See its all written down - just needs no preconception of what we think it should mean today - just need to interpret with our 1939 to 1945 clerical heads on to prevent going down dead ends.
Seemples.
Ross
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Just had another look at your R.F.E.R. (2/9/45) in the general posting flow.
since it's back in Blighty I think this is AAEE which is Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroplane_and_Armament_Experimental_Establishment
Ross
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Thanks again Ross, for all your help!
I have forwarded your replies on to my father- he will be most grateful too!
It's a fascinating subject, once you get started :)
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Hi , It's Bill 247 here and I am wondering if someone could assist me . I have my Late Fathers RAF service record and I need a helping hand . My Fathers name was William Crawford and No 1007047.
RAF Padgate enlisted here , Was recommended for GD then sent to RAF Drem for training as Radio Operator.
RAF Drem till 27/08/1940 moved to 13 MU RAF Henlow till 9/9/40 then moved to Malta arriving 10/11/40
RAF No 504 COL AMES Dingli Cliff till 21/4/43. Moved to Ames reserve pool RAF Helwan Cairo then to No 3 Signals Unit also at RAF Helwan till 1/9/43 then home embarkation on 1/2/44
After H. E. 22/2/44 moved to No 72 wing Dollarbeg house HQ of Scottish Radar till 8/5/44.
Moved to Bunchrew house Inverness HQ of Radars covering Scotland & N. Ireland till 13/6/44.
Attached to No 2 recruits centre. Cardington took General Service Training exam here till 13/7/44
Returns to 70 wing HQ at Bunchrew house Inverness till 3/ 10/44
Attached to RAF Warden Signals Station Pembroke till 18/10/44
Back to 70 wing Bunchrew house Inverness till 10/10/45
Moved to 101 personnel dispersal Centre Kirkham Lancashire.
Mustering on his Service form are
ACH/ GD 22/6/40
ACH / Radio Op 5. 31/7/40
Radio op 4 . 15/8/40
RDF OP . 21/5/42.
Radar Op 2. 2/9/43
Rad/ op (pp1 ). 6/9/52. Dad was recalled from 6/9/52 till 20/9/52 and was stationed at Radar unit at West Beckham in G reserve. The form No 3576.
His trade column reads.
31/12/40 ACH/opt
31/12/41 R opt
31/13/42 RDF / opt 2
31/12/43 R opt
31/12/44 Rad / Op.
I would like if someone could explain as to how my Father may have been trained as I believe that there was no training facility at RAF Drem which is where I believed that he was trained to be an RDF Operator on Radar. Also I am not sure but is it possible that he was trained on site at the Radar unit in Malta.
Thank you for taking the time to try and work this all out as a lot of it is still a mystery which I don't think I will ever solve especially the area of Dollarbeg , Bunchrew house as they were HQs for Radar for Scotland / N England and N , Ireland and there was no Radar units at these locations and I can only think that my Father did some kind of clerical Duties.
I have no idea what he done at the Signals depot at RAF Helwan either.
The only part I have had success is I know where the Radar stood at Dingli Cliff Malta
Thank you again.
Bill 247
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In the early part of 1940 the RAF training mechanism was struggling to keep up with the demands of training newly inducted aviation candidates and taking over the role of OTU from the operational squadrons.
The main effort was to fix this training bottleneck and produce aircrew rather than ground trades and so a large part of trade training in Spring/Summer 1940 was undertaken "on the job".
This is evidenced in his mustering going from AirChargeHand u/t Radio Operator Trade Group 5 to trained Radio Operator Trade Group 4 within 16 days or so.
RDF crews were accomodated at a local RAF base and in this case Drem was the unit for the Chain Home Low Cockburnspath station that became operation on 26th Jan 1940.
This was used with Anstruther to cover the approaches to the Firth of Forth anchorages and Rosyth RN base.
The original name of RDF - Radio Direction Finding points to the genesis of modern Radar and that for the RAF it was a development/application of radio theory and equipment and as such needed this trade to maintain/adjust not only the main transmitters/receivers but also the associated test and calibration equipment.
The Wings supplied not only clerical function but also did bench servicing and calibration of equipment and it would be more usual for trained Operators to be used for bench work rather than purely clerical but by 1944 the service was stuffed with manpower that needed to be kept occupied so I would not fully discount it.
Ross
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Hi Ross, Thank you so much for your assistance in interpreting some of my Fathers R.O.S.
I had not came to the conclusion of my Father doing bench work possibly at No 3 Signals unit at Helwan after spending almost 3 yrs Radar op in Malta. The other part that baffled me was his movement after returning from Malta & Helwan. Dollarbeg house was the HQ of the Radars initially then it was all moved to Bunchrew House in Inverness and my Father was there on 3 occasions ranging from a few weeks to his last posting there to almost a year. I had a researcher Mr Thomaselli at Kew check it out , however unless you were above the higher ranks you got no mention and he believed that my Father possibly did a clerical job as this was a Radar HQ for Scotland & N.Ireland.
I was also baffled by them sending him to RAFWarren Signal unit for a few weeks , I can only think that he was there either for a course or as relief operator. Anyhow Ross , I can only say a Huge thanks for your time and effort to try and get my Fathers Record of Service sorted out for me.
Before I finish , don't know if it means anything but in the column marked reason a HH was marked beside RAF Drem.
I am very grateful for your assistance.
Regards.
Bill 247
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HH is Headquarters Holding.
A bod could be posted under a variety of conditions
P is posted but in most cases the clerical scribe omits this from the records - it means that the man has been posted to the unit to fill an establishment position. Within reason the unit will use him as it sees fit within his trade. They are also responsible for pay. messing, training, equipment, clothing etc.
A is attached. Here the bod has been assigned for a short time to the receiving unit and they are responsible pay, messing and training but he is not counted as part of their establishment. He can be paid from the new location but it must claim the money paid out back from the original unit.
HH is Headquarters Holding. In this case the bod has not been posted to the unit to fill an establishment post. He is there as part of the Command/Force manpower reserve and can be withdrawn and posted elsewhere as HQ sees fit. The Unit listed is obliged to provide training, pay, messing etc while they have him and to keep him gainfully employed. (not to be confused with H which is Home Force or HH/H which is usually first holding job on entry)
As Eccles from the Goon show says "everybody got to be somewhere!"
This should help you understand attachments in that he never really left the supervision of the original unit.
Ross
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Ross,
Thanks again for your time .
Very informative and a great help.
Much appreciated.
Bill.
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Bill,
Looking back over your quest to find his training location -I'm not sure your understanding of technical level is correct for that corresponding to his changing RAF role.
The RAF as a technical service was divided into trade groups where roles of similar skill level were combined. Pay was determined by not only rank but also trade group.
The most skilled trade group was I or 1 and the least skilled V or 5.
His first mustering was ACH / Radio Op 5. 31/7/40 ie Group 5
Other example trades in this group were Driver MT, Pigeon Keeper, Batman, Parachute Packer, Telephone Operator. All trades that did not have a formal training school but were instructed on the task.
His next mustering was Radio op 4 . 15/8/40 ie Group 4
Example trades in Group 4 were Teleprinter Operator, Equipment Assistant, Clerk (All types), Radio Telephony Operator (eg no Morse - voice procedure only)
Group 3 was fabric workers, cook butcher, shoe maker, balloon riggers etc.
It was not until after three years on the job training that he reached Group 2 - Radar Op 2. 2/9/43
Also in Group 2 were Flight Mechanics, Wireless/Radio Operators, armourer etc.
To complete the story in case others are wondering Grade 1 included Fitters, Wireless Mechanics, Radio mechanics, Blacksmith and welder.
To sum up his training was not formal in a class room but gradual improvement of knowledge and skill over several years moving him from repetitive action only to understanding the underlying principles and able to swap out equipment modules but not including the skills necessary for component fault finding and repair.
Regards
Ross
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Thank you to Ross and everyone who has posted here - it has really helped me begin to understand my grandfather's service records from WW2, where I believe he was involved with early radar in SW Cornwall.
Could anyone please help me decipher a few abbreviations which I have not found listed, and add some meaning to some of the phrases used?
Under 'miscellaneous' on Form 543
Med Cat - Two (I'm guessing this indicates medical limitations as he was colour blind and had a heart defect)
Qualified EVT instructor
Recat Grade III
Under the 'Unit moved to' column of the 'Unit movement' form:
1 Wg ?? school (writing partly obscured)
3wlS.S
Also, abbreviations 'DD' and 'F' in the 'reason for movement' column
Some entries are struck through and marked Cancelled P/O - what does this indicate?
And finally, he is shown as moved to Stn St Eval and then Stn Portreath, where the form suggests he spends most of WW2. However, we know that he spent most of WW2 at Chain home low / extra low sites at RAF Pen Olver and RAF Chapel Carn Brae, neither of which are shown on the form. Were these regarded as part of a posting to Portreath?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Richard.