RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: rainy on Tuesday 07 March 17 01:12 GMT (UK)
-
Helping a friend find family of his grandfather he didn't know anything of.
John William Gray son of John and Frances Mary/Mary Frances GRAY nee SATCHELL.
Westland area. Born 1880.
His WW1 Attestation Service says he born Wanganui, which I do wonder at.
But is there a Wanganui in Westland??
Haven't got a definite marriage as several men with same name.
But he was single in 1917 on his Army record.
Also in his Army records there is a death record 23.9.1968 Hamilton.
Have looked re cemeteries but did not find him.
Looked at Archives and wonder he is the one re Maori Hamilton files 1968.
He would not be a Maori.
But maybe his wife could be.
Just need some help trying to finish off this man family sheet.
His great nephew knows nothing at all of him.
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
rainy
-
His WW1 Attestation Service says he born Wanganui, which I do wonder at.
But is there a Wanganui in Westland??
Hi ... there is a place "Little Wanganui" in Westland (or West Coast).
Will look to see what else I can find for this man.
~ Lu
-
Hi Rainy,
A John William GRAY was a pupil at Arahura Road School on the West Coast in January 1885. Contact the Westland Genealogy Group for (hopefully) more information.
Could the date of death in his Army Personnel file be '1963' rather than '1968'? There is a probate (including a Will) for a John William R. GRAY, a Company Manager who died at Hamilton.
I suggest you check NZBDM online for a matching death record which might provide an exact date of birth.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
Spades
-
This may his death registration.....
1968/46256 Gray John William 87Y
Minniehaha.
-
Hi rainy
The John William R. GRAY is not your man. :(
[John William Rangitauwaru GRAY - d. 14 June 1963 - aged 53 years (bc 1910) at Newstead, Waikato
Reg. # 26469 - 2nd Lieut. 18th Battn. Armed Regiment - 2nd NZEF
Buried : Hamilton Lawn Cemetery, Waikato :]
~ Lu
-
Thank you Lu.
I did think that maybe the case.
I also found a John William GRAY d.1977 Retired Laborer at Te Kawa.
Now I did look where that was in the North Island.
But wondered whether what newspaper would be for that area.
I also found a John William Gray in Oamaru Cemetery RSA but 11 July 1968 at 89 years which is a maybe also???
It was by reading the Probate for their father John Gray of Hokitika 1908 that names of the John William Gray and Frances Gray came up that he knew nothing of.
Appreciate your help. Thank you.
rainy.
-
His birth.......
1880/1082 Gray John William Frances Mary John
Exact date:31.1.1880
Minniehaha.
-
Two snippets from West Coast newspapers about a John William Gray..........
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19320305.2.23?query=john%20william%20%20gray
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19241227.2.105?query=john%20william%20%20gray
Minniehaha.
-
Thank you , that's great.
Now can you find his sister's birth date.
I have looked and looked. Must be not doing something correctly.
Frances Gray.
Married 1900 to Patrick James Monahan.
Maybe died Nelson 1954.
Appreciate your help.
Thank you.
rainy
Now that's interesting. No wonder the family didn't know perhaps.
Thank you had looked at paperspast re funeral for their father.
Just shows how easy it is to miss something.
Thank you appreciate your help.
rainy
-
Thank you Spades for checking for me.
I wonder if Department of Internal Affairs Notification of Death to Army records had the wrong death for him???
The rest of the form has his army number, birth etc.
Was it usual that they even notified re deaths.
As hadn't done that for other two brothers in the family, who have been able to find info for.
Its stamped 1968 as well.
Yes have searched bdm nz several times. Used the calculator to work out births etc from deaths.
And unfortunately there are several.
Appreciate your help.
rainy
-
See reply #3 re possible death.
Only sibling found:
1881/4795 Gray George Stephen Frances Mary John
What was the name of the sister?
Minniehaha.
-
I also found him in 1925 on Electoral Roll at Arahura.
Think he is still there 1928, then I am not sure.
As several with that name.
Thank you for the School record Minniehaha .
These friends do not have computer and are interested Orally in their family history.
Many thanks.
rainy
Yes that's one brother and is named as his next of kin in Army record.
Other brother is Charles James Gray but found it under Grey. born 1883.
Frances Gray is their sister. Marries Patrick James Monahan 1900.
Patrick dies up Collingwood/Takaka way.
But think Frances maybe Buried in Nelson???1954.
Yes that other 1968 death that could be is the Oamaru one I found in their cemeteries.
But don't think friends will buy certificates???
which of course would possibly confirm if correct person etc.
Thank you all.
rainy
-
Hi rainy
The "John William GRAY" death registration showing on NZBDM (online), has a date of death of 8 July 1968. He will be the man buried at Oamaru on 11 July 1868.
The cemetery record online at the Waitaki District Council website, notes "RSA plot".
Good idea to check with the District Council to see if you can ascertain the Regimental number for this man (surely they must have a note of it ... I'm surprised it isn't given in their listing ;D.)
[Your John William GRAY's number was > 56428 > ]
Here's the link to make an enquiry.
http://www.waitaki.govt.nz/our-services/do-it-online/cemetery-search/Pages/default.aspx
~ Lu
-
"But don't think friends will buy certificates???"
Purchasing printouts is the better option. They are cheaper than certificates, may contain more information and can be e-mailed.
Minniehaha.
-
Yes that other 1968 death that could be is the Oamaru one I found in their cemeteries.
But don't think friends will buy certificates???
which of course would possibly confirm if correct person etc.
... see my suggestion about contacting Waitaki District Council. ;D
-
Thank you Lu hadn't thought re Council would have his Army number.
Will do that in a few moments.
Minnyhaha yes agree copy of certificates is best.
But just the way they think don't think it will happen.
So we can only do what is possible for us to do.
Think it is just they don't understand what is required.
Thank you both for your wonderful advice and help.
rainy
-
Also in his Army records there is a death record 23.9.1968 Hamilton.
Hello...
Has the following been mentioned yet (can't see it)...
BDM NZ Deaths
1968/47304 - GRAY, John William - 52 - d.o.d 23 Sep 1968
Either BDM NZ have the age at death wrong or the army file has the wrong date of death or it may be a namesake who died on the same day...
Regards
Beg
-
Thank you Beg.
Yes it has made me wonder whether something not correct.
The 23 Sept 1968 at 52 years would be quite some years out, but did they know when he was born???
Its another maybe.
Have emailed the Council to see if they have Army number, since he is buried in Oamaur RSA plot.
So await reply.
Thank you for your help.
rainy
-
You could email BDM NZ and ask them to check the age. Tell them you think they've transcribed it wrong. They'll definitely look into it and get back to you within a day or two.
1968/47304 - GRAY, John William - 52 - d.o.d 23 Sep 1968
23 Sept 1968 at 52 years would be quite some years out
Technically it's not 52 years. It just says 52. Could be seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or years...
Regards
Beg
-
Yes will do that also.
Will see if Council answer tomorrow.
I had asked bdm nz today re the sister Frances Gray's birth.
So hoping they may answer that soon as well.
Its the advice other researchers give that make you rethink over dates etc.
Thank you all for the advice and help.
rainy
-
Yes will do that also.
Will see if Council answer tomorrow.
The Oamaru-born John William GRAY's army service number is 24/766. His service record file is at NZ Archives. His d.o.d (8 Jul 1968) is on page 6 of the file.
Regards
Beg
-
Hi rainy
The "John William GRAY" death registration showing on NZBDM (online), has a date of death of 8 July 1968. He will be the man buried at Oamaru on 11 July 1868.
The cemetery record online at the Waitaki District Council website, notes "RSA plot".
Good idea to check with the District Council to see if you can ascertain the Regimental number for this man (surely they must have a note of it ... I'm surprised it isn't given in their listing ;D.)
[Your John William GRAY's number was > 56428 > ]
Here's the link to make an enquiry.
http://www.waitaki.govt.nz/our-services/do-it-online/cemetery-search/Pages/default.aspx
~ Lu
Hi rainy
Yes, as beg says, the Oamaru burial is for the Oamaru-born John William GRAY (father: John GRAY, Till Street, Oamaru ) ... I didn't look far enough into his record. ;D
~ Lu
-
Looked at Archives and wonder he is the one re Maori Hamilton files 1968.
Well worth asking for a look-up I reckon as this particular file is related to an estate (so someone called John William GRAY who died in Hamilton in 1968, which pretty much fits the bill).
Just taiho on the Maori angle for the moment :-)
From Archway...
The Maori Trustee administered estates, the estates of protected persons, soldier's funds, and leases and sales.
Regards
Beg
-
Hi All.
Well emailed Oamaru, Hamilton, Waikato re Hamilton rural cemeteries and bdm.nz re Frances Gray.
They are all wonderful and have replied this afternoon.
Unfortunately with no found records that fit and Army numbers that match.
But at least have covered those areas now.
Just not sure where to try now, but will search again and give it another try.
Will let you know if I do find anything.
Many thanks for your help.
rainy.
-
Did mean asked those place re John William gray and www.bdm.nz also Frances Gray his sister.
Thanks
rainy