RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Carolynn on Tuesday 07 March 17 03:39 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone. I seem to have hit a bit of a wall with my search for my gr-gr-gr grandfather who was a sea captain named John Ryan who left Ireland and came out to NZ.
Captain Ryan was married initially to a woman called Catherine Hennessey, possibly the marriage took place in Ireland. Catherine & John had several children some born in Ireland and others born in NZ including my gr-gr-grandmother Esther Ryan (1841-1928).
Catherine died in NZ and in 1848 Captain Ryan married Rose Ann Lennan a widow whose husband had drowned in June of that year in Waitemata Harbour in NZ shortly after their arrival. My understanding is that John and Rose remained married ending only with his death. Captain Ryan died in Auckland NZ in May 1892.
Does anyone have any suggestions of where to head next? All tips are much appreciated.
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Does anyone have any suggestions of where to head next? All tips are much appreciated.
Hi Carolynn ... welcome to RootsChat. :)
Can you tell us please, more precisely, what you are wanting to find out ?
~ Lu
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Burial details via this link >
http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/symondsst/sscem.html
RYAN [11 of 13 ]
Mmm ... I have a feeling we have had this query before ... especially Rose Ann LENNON [or var.] :D
~ Lu
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Hi Carolynn
Was your g/g/ grandmother, Esther RYAN m. SANDFORD ??
This thread has some information re: Captain John RYAN / Rose Ann LENNON / CONWAY / SANDFORD etc ...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=710601.27
~ Lu
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Yes indeed, Esther Sandford was my gr-gr grandmother. I know about Rose Ann Lennan and John Ryan marrying in NZ in 1848 but I've drawn a blank about John Ryan's first wife Catherine (nee Hennessey) who I'm descended from. Do I need to look at the Irish records now as she doesn't seem to have died in NZ unless her first name wasn't Catherine?
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Hi ... from memory there are other researchers of this family who have placed "trees" online.
I'll take a look and see what I can find about Catherine.
~ Lu
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.... but I've drawn a blank about John Ryan's first wife Catherine (nee Hennessey) who I'm descended from. Do I need to look at the Irish records now as she doesn't seem to have died in NZ unless her first name wasn't Catherine?
Here is the obituary published for Esther SANDFORD .... it says that she came to New Zealand with her parents ...
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19280626.2.105
As Captain John RYAN supposedly re-married to Rose Ann LENNON in 1848 then it seems very likely that his first wife Catherine, died in New Zealand. 1848 and before, are very early dates in NZ's history, and recordings of BDM events existed only in church records. That will probably account for not being able to find the death registration of Catherine RYAN (HENNESSEY) on the NZ death index.
There is no point in looking at Irish records until such time as you have established just where in Ireland, these people came from.
* What information to you already have for John RYAN ?
* Do you have a printout copy of his 1892 death record ??
~ Lu
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Hi ... from memory there are other researchers of this family who have placed "trees" online.
I'll take a look and see what I can find about Catherine.
~ Lu
Seems there was maybe only the one "tree" which had been published at the ancestry.com website.
It looks as though it has been removed ?? ... not able to see it now ?
And appears I'd looked earlier for Catherine's death in NZ and had no luck in finding it amongst available online records.
The family had connections to St. Patrick's (RC) church in Auckland, so you would need to access their records.
~ Lu
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Thanks for your time Lu. I'll try St Pat's and let you know.
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Update: Death certificate of John Ryan received. He died in Auckland in 1892 aged 84...occupation given as 'Firewood Dealer'....his first wife's name is confirmed as Catherine Hennessy...they were married in Sydney when he was 24...his second wife was Rose Conway...his mother's name is given as Catherine Coleman. The undertaker was 'C. Little' whose family continues the trade.
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Can you please list all the information on the death certificate.
BDM NSW marriage
376/1841 V1841376 130 RYAN John m. HENNESSEY Catherine LD
BDM NSW birth
1481/1841 V18411481 133 RYAN Esther parents John / Catherine
BDM NZ marriage
1863 / 3955 RYAN Esther m. SANDFORD John
BDM NZ death
1928/957 SANDFORD Esther 88yrs
Evening Post 5 Jul 1928 p17 Obit for Esther SANDFORD
....residence Newton, Auckland....born Sydney arrived aged 6 weeks on Sofia Pete......fourth daughter of the late Captain John Ryan.......owner of ships Esther, Bridget and Ariel.......
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Here is the obituary published for Esther SANDFORD .... it says that she came to New Zealand with her parents ...
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19280626.2.105
Obituary for Esther SANDFORD given previously. [Identical to one published in "Evening Post" - 5 July 1928 : ]
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Many thanks to Wivenhoe :D and to Lucy2. Yay. I've just ordered the marriage certificate of Catherine Hennessey and John Ryan who married in Sydney.
I grew up with stories of Captain Ryan. Is there a connection between Ariel Reef off the coast from Gisborne and the schooner "Ariel"? I was always told that the Ariel was either wrecked or ran aground on the Ariel Reef hence its name. But that could be an old story that's been embellished.
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Hi Carolynn
... seem to remember looking earlier for the 3 vessels mentioned in Esther's obituary ... will go back and check.
~ Lu
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Carolynn ... this mention of the "Ariel" , for starters >
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH18590730.2.3.1
~ Lu
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.... here's a better one >
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH18590716.2.3.1
That gives you a time frame and the nature of his work.
~ Lu
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Thanks Lu.
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I grew up with stories of Captain Ryan. Is there a connection between Ariel Reef off the coast from Gisborne and the schooner "Ariel"? I was always told that the Ariel was either wrecked or ran aground on the Ariel Reef hence its name. But that could be an old story that's been embellished.
Not really able to help with this Carolynn. "Google" might be your friend ?
[Did find that Ariel Reef had a Maori name ( - which has escaped me for now ) but when I searched further the (Maori) name didn't seem to exist ?
~ Lu
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Another search, another result ... this one tells us more. :D
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZGWS18400516.2.3.4
~ Lu
[Probably need to identify if John RYAN was the skipper of "Ariel" at that time ? ;) ]
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.... and this ... loss of the "Ariel" at Poverty Bay.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH18590820.2.3
~ Lu
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... just adding snippets as I find them. This from June 1859 (about 1/2 way down page ) :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MMTKM18590630.2.6
~ Lu
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... may have already posted this ?? ... but it is John RYAN's arrival at Napier from Auckland, (mid-July 1859, on that ill-fated voyage :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH18590716.2.3.1
~ Lu
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... and 13 June 1859 - from Hot Water Springs ... inward to Auckland - cargo of timber :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18590617.2.3
~ Lu
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... outwards - destined for Auckland ... via the East Coast - "Ariel" : RYAN - July 26 ...
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH18590730.2.3.1
That's about it I think.
But you should be able to plot his voyages with that info.
[Note: During same year 1859, two other vessels also named "Ariel" were in New Zealand waters :
"Ariel" - Brigantine - Capts. DAVIS and F.S. WHITE
"Ariel" - Schooner - Capt. R.A. GUNN
Both of these though, worked the trans-Tasman route (AUS-NZ) ]
~ Lu
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Thanks so much Lu, you're a mine of information :-)
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The other three ryan children were George (born 1830), Catherine, known as Kate (837) and Anthony (1840). John's wife, Catherine, was buried on January 6, 1846, according to St Patrick's Cathedral records. John Ryan was my g-g-grandfather; I have written a long spiel on his life, post marriage.