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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: JosiahS on Tuesday 07 March 17 15:47 GMT (UK)
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Hello there
I'm trying to find a William Wells who, according to his naval records, and a number of censuses was born in 1835 (25 July) in Boscastle. He married twice and each time said his father was called George, who was a carpenter, marked as being deceased on the second marriage in 1889. He was clearly quite an imposing chap for the day at 6'1".
I can find William in the 1861 for the first time - he is on board HMS Imperieuse in Hong Kong. In that and the next two censuses he states his place of birth as Boscastle, but then in 1901 he states it as Padstow.
As it happens I can't find a baptism in either parish and I can't find him in the 1841 or 1851 censuses - he served on naval vessels from 1854.
Can anyone help with either of the censuses or a baptismal record please?
Thanks in advance
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Hi Josiah,
This is a stab in the dusk - but perhaps worth looking at.......
When one looks up "Boscastle' on Genuki
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/indexpars#B
It doesn't have it's own Parish page; rather we are directed to Forrabury"
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Forrabury
A lack of anyone called "WELLS" popping up with a pob around 1835 in or around Boscastle/Forrabury or even Padstow - makes me think: name change. From illegitimate birth to another surname on a marriage of the WELLS mother, or by a widow WELLS mother remarrying and her children's name assuming stepfather's name....that sort of thing.
Search for a "William", born about "1834", father named "George", living in "Forrabury*". A number of hits come up of folk who live in "Boscastle, Forrabury". Then take the search to just the 1841.
Take a look at this 1841 Census:
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
HO107 - Piece 140/ Book 5/ Page 5
Dunn Street, Parish of Forrabury, Hundred of Lesnewth, Cornwall
George JENKYN 35, Joiner
Mary JENKYN 30
John JENKYN 9 (born about 1832)
William JENKYN 7 (born abt 1834)
George JENKYN 4 (born abt 1837)
All born Cornwall
Then take a look at this marriage in 1856:
familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJHB-6C3W
(Image available to view)
10th April 1856, in Parish of Forrabury
John Wills JENKYN 25, bachelor, Master Mariner, of Forrabury.
Father: George JENKYN, Carpenter
Alice RUNDLE 30, Spinster, of Forrabury
Father: William RUNDLE, Butcher
Witness: Mary Ann JAMES, William GARD
The groom - whose age indicates he was born around 1831, clearly signs as John Wills Jenkyn. And definitely "Wills" too, not "Mills" !!
That's as far as I've gotten at this minute!
Just having a look now into John, where he might be in 1851 and to see if he could be the 1841 John with a brother named William.....
Cheers
AMBLY
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Yes definitely - that 1841 Census is that of John Wills JENKYN who married in 1856.
Off to the Cornwall OPC - this is the baptisms of that same family:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database
BAPTISM : On 22 Feb 1832, Parish of Forrabury
John Mills JENKYN (sic)
Father: George
Mother: Mary
Residence: Boscastle
Father's profession: Carpenter
BAPTISM : On 27 July 1834, Parish of Forrabury
William JENKYN
Father: George
Mother: Mary
Residence: Polly Cellars
Father's profession: Carpenter
BAPTISM : On 15 Sep 1836, Parish of Forrabury
George JENKYN
Father: George
Mother: Mary
Residence: Polly Cellars
Father's profession: Carpenter
BAPTISM : On 29 Mar 1839, Parish of Forrabury
Honour JENKYN
Father: George
Mother: Mary
Residence: Bridge
Father's profession: Carpenter
BAPTISM : On 1 Sep 1841, Parish of Forrabury
Honor Maria JENKYN
Father: George
Mother: Mary
Residence: Dunn Street
Father's profession: Carpenter
Now off to the GRO index, who index MMS on most of the Births:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro:
1839: Honour JENKIN, registered Jun Qtr Camelford, mms: WILLS
1841: Honor Maria JENKIN, registered Sep Qtr Camelford, mms: WILLS
Hmm.....I'm feeling fairly confident this family may be that of your William?
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY - this piece of research is a thing of beauty.
It is tempting to wonder if William had a major disagreement with his father and changed his name as an act of revenge. Such things do happen.
Philip
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CORNWALL OPC:
The marriage of George JENKYN and Mary WILLS at Forrubury on 23 November 1831 - so looks like all their children were legitimate JENKYN births.
CENSUS 1851: Village of Boscastle, Parish of Minster
HO107 / Piece 1898 / Folio 49 / Pg 8
Head: George JENKYN 46, Carpenter, b Minster
Wife: Mary JENKYN 41, b Lanteglos
Son: William 16, Carpenter, b Forrabury
Son: George 11, Apprentice to Cordwainer, b Forrabury
Dau: Honor 10, b Forrabury
Dau: Mary 7, b Minster
Dau: Elizabeth England 3, b Minster
Dau: Celia 5mths, b Minster
1861: Boscastle Town, Parish of Forrabury
RG 9 / Piece 1515 /Folio 9 /Pg11
Head: George JENKYN 52, Joiner, b Boscastle
Wife: Mary JENKYN 51, b Camelford
Dau: Honor 18, b Boscastle
Dau: Elizabeth 8, b Boscastle
Boarder: Mary JOLLOW, 70, widow, Sailors W, b Boscastle
Your William WELLS first married Amelia LONG in 1863 in Kent?
familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NN6T-FFV
Who were the witness' to this marriage?
Looking for a key clue to tie your William to the JENKYN's ;D
Will follow through and see if George JENKYN Snr is deceased before 1889.
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY - this piece of research is a thing of beauty.
I'm blushing ;D what a lovely thing to say - thank you! I hope it pans out. My intuition says it may well do!
PS: I agree, about the potential reason why there may have been a name change, too.
Cheers
AMBLY
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John Wills JENKINS is here:
1861 CENSUS: Vessel "INDUSTRY", in Hayle, Cornwall
RG 9 - Piece 4494 / Folio 29
Master: John W JENKYN 28, married, b Boscastle
Mate: William RAW 23, married, b Boscastle
AB Seaman: Edwin RICHARDS, 51?, married, b Boscastle
AB Seaman: Thomas CALLAWAY, 19, unm, b Boscastle
Boy: Thomas FOORD 16, in, b Boscastle
His wife is here, in the household of one of her marriage witness':
1861: Boscastle Town, Parish of Forrabury
RG 9/ Piece 1515 / Folio 8 /Pg 10
Head: William GARD 65, widower, Corker & Glazier, b Forrabury.
Cousin: Alice JENKYN 35, married, Sailor's wife, b Loswithiel, Cornwall
(Her JENKYNS in-laws, George & Mary, are 7 households away, on the next page)
This JENKYN daughter married in 1865 - in Padstow:
Honor Maria JENKYNS 24, spinster, resident of Padstow
Father: George JENKYNS, Joiner
to: Samuel LANDERY 23, a Ships Carpenter of Padstow
Witness Henry HARDING, Mary RANDALL
The JENKYNS parents are here:
1871: Dunn Street, Boscastle Parish of Forrabury
RG10 / Piece 2218 / Folio: 7 / Pg7
Head: George JENKIN 67, Builder, b Minster
Wife: Mary JENKIN 61, b Langelos
1881: Dunn Street, Boscastle Parish of Forrabury
RG11 Piece 2272/ Folio 9; Pg12
Head: George JENKIN 77, Builder, b Minster
Wife: Mary JENKIN 71, b Minster
Boarder: Sarah Louisa ROWLETT 20, unm, Schoolmistress (Board School)
The Cornwall OPC, has
BURIAL: of Mary JENKYNS of Boscastle, in 1882, Minster, age 73.
BURIAL: of George JENKYN of Boscastle, in 1887, Minster, age 77.
Cheers
AMBLY
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George JENKYN died 1887 age 77, & Mary JENKYN died 1881 age 73
Buried in Minster Saint Merteriana Cemetery , Boscastle
(Picture of Headstone)
So is their son, John Wills JENKYN , died 1869, age 37, Lost at Sea.
And his wife Alice who died 1874, aged 48.
(Picture of Headstone)
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&GRid=144336146&CRid=2572907&
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly
I agree that is a fantastic and compelling piece of research. I had already gone down the illegitimacy root but what you have pulled together is a brilliant narrative which fits perfectly with the dates.
William's first marriage was in Folkstone and the witnesses were Henry Brushwood and Eliza Griffiths, on the second in Fulham they were James Collins and what looks like (much crossed out) Hope Martha Andrew.
If this William Wells was William Jenkyn (and I am persuaded that he was) then he clearly still had contact with some of his family as he knew his father was dead when he married the second time.
Thank you so much for your help with this - you clearly know what you are doing!
All the best
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Hi,
You're most welcome - happy I could help, hopefully it's can be proved to be your man ;D
I agree, if he is JENKYN, he must have been in touch with some family at least.
Perhaps following through all the JENKYN children to see who were witness to any marriages, might throw up William? Even the deaths of George & Mary, in case he is informant.
Did your William by any chance leave a will when he died (I'm presuming between 1901 & 1911 somewhere in Middlesex or Surrey?)
George JENKYN who died 1887.
He left a Will - or there was at least an Admin as a Probate was granted:
George JENKYN of Boscastle, Cornwall, Carpenter, died 23 Feb 1887
Probate London: 26 April 1887 to Mary JOHNSON (wife of Alfred JOHNSON) Effects £25
(I wonder if Mary JOHNSON is his daughter, the one on the 1851 Census?)
John Wills JENKYN who died 1869.
He left a Will - or there was at least an Admin as a Probate was granted 14 Jan 1870:
John Wills JENKYN, late of Boscastle, Parish of Forrabury, Cornwall, Mariner (not in the Royal Navy), deceased who died 10 Sep 1869 at sea was proved at Bodmin, on the oath of Alice JENKYN of Boscastle, widow the relict, Sole Executrix, Effects under £600
Might be a bit to far-fetched - but another reason I've seen for a name change, was due to a legacy & part of the conditions of someone's will requiring the legacee to change their surname - albeit the times I've seen it was I think around a substantial inheritance... food for thought in any case?
As an aside, I came across a John England JENKYN in my travels, whom I think is probably a brother of George. He (John) was apparently born 1795 in Boscastle, married Elizabeth Mules on 25 Jan 1820. Died 12 April 12, 1867, in Launceston, Cornwall. He was a carpenter, joiner & a businessman. A number of trees on A**y, possibly had a brother or father named Christopher.
Best of luck with your continued research!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thank you for the additional information Ambly
As it happens I have William's date of birth from his naval records - it was marked as being 25 July 1835 - could he have been a year out? I suspect so, as if it were 1834 it would fit perfectly with the baptism.
In response to your question there was no will as far as I can see.
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Josiah,
Very surprised to chance upon your email. I have posted a very similar email on sites as I believe William Wells is my great great grandfather and I could not find his birth record.
What is your interest in William? How does he fit into your reasearch? Is there other information about his line you have available to share?
Regards
David Wells
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Hi David
I'm researching the family as a surprise for the 70th birthday of a friend. Hr is descended from Albert Alfred Thomas Wells, William's son, and his mother was Edith Beatrice Wells, Albert's daughter.
Have you found a death for William's wife Amelia?
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Let me check my notes - I've delved a little with some dead ends and I think the wives deaths are one of them.
Regarding the suggestions others have made, which I am yet to digest fully, I think you need to consider his naval record, regarding where he was and when. Here are the ships he served on with a bit of history about the ship's where I've gleaned it from various sources. "WW Service..." shows the dates he served on each vessel:
William wells naval service
Tortoise WW service 23 May 1854-28 April 1859
Dec 1844 - Nov 1859 store ship Acension, finally scuttled.
Megaera WW service 29 April 1859 - 24 June 1859
launched 1848 Millwall, gunfire experiments on iron hull. Maiden voyage June 1851 bound for Cork to embark troops. Towed back to Sheerness due to engine crank failure jan 1852 left with 800 aboard from Dover to Cape Good Hope via Madeira (jan 24-27), Freetown (6-7 Feb) to Simons Bay near Cape Town (23 March). 15 April home bound with 200 invalids, stopped Ascension (29 April - 6 May), St Vincent, cape Verde (May), MOB end May, Plymouth reached mid June, Woolwich 19 June. End June to Sheerness for overhaul. 30 August to Mouse Light for trials. Bow to quay collision on return to Sheerness. Woolwich 27 sept to embark Royal Artillery. 30 sept 1852 to West Indies. Several round trips to Crimea with troops inc 42nd highlanders. Summer 1854 based Black Sea. Supply ship at various ports incl Sinope. Sept 1854 part of 600 invasion ships Varna. Sept - Dec 1855 defending Eupatoria. Came under direct fire in Oct. Crimean war ended 1856. Returned for Portsmouth overhaul. Feb 1857 sailed with troops bound cape good hope. (1858 Australia?) Early 1859 ordered back to Portsmouth for cement lining of hull. From Feb 1860 spent 3 years transporting troops UK to Med. Out to Jamaica may 1863 delivering troops between islands. 1864 at Spithead for major refit. Sent to Keyham dry dock, Devonport and reengined. Turned into storeship over 12 months feb 1865 complement of 165. Two round trips to Rio and Ascension, and two trips to Med before minor repairs at Woolwich completed Nov 1867 without plate work completed. 1868 two voyages Ascension, Rio. Spring 1869 Falklands. Returned to South Atlantic Dec 1869. Coal bunker fire near equator. Sheerness March 1870. Woolwich in May opposite Arsenal boarding troops. Minor collision with brig. Mid May left for Gibraltar and Malta. Back on Thames end July 1870. aug 1870 company paid off and handed over to Steam Reserve. Feb 1871 to Maplin Sands for measured mile, returning Sheerness. An OS taken to Lewes for mutinous language. Feb depart for plymouth for coal, then bound Simonstown, cape and Sydney via madeira, cape verde, Ascension. Devonport for 30 boys for Sydney. Queenstown Cork for bowspit repairs . Officer complaints re overcrowding and lying low in water. Letter to Times, raised in parliament. Departed march. Reached Madeira. Entertainment on board during voyage, harpooning porpoises, service on Sundays - some men with choir experience. Onto St Vincent and ascension in April, reaching Simons Bay mid May. Departed end May for Sydney but Leak sprung in June 1871 in Indian Ocean and she was beached on island of St Paul
Imperieuse WW service 18 July 1859 - 21 March 1863
Canopus 26 March - 23 May 1863. Canopus served as tender to HMS Indus the Devonport guardship
Dauntless 24 May 1863 - 29 May 1870. Coastguard base ship at Southampton, then moved to Humber in 1864. From 1870 reduced to status of tender to coastguard ship HMS Wyvern.
Hector WW service prior to 19 July 1869? Record shows 30 May 1870 - 31 May 1875. Guardship of Fleet Reserve in Southampton. Served as guardship to Queen Victoria when at IOW. (how then the link to Bexhill?)
1 badge 1 apr 1860
2 badges 1 Jun? 1862
Forfeit 1 badge 20 sep 1862
2 badges 1 sep 1865
3 badges 1 sep 1867
Gunners certificate 25 apr 1866
I plan to double check my tracing of William from my grandfather, Albert Thomas Wells of Poplar who married Florence Parkinson.
Will check my notes further. If you have information on William Wells line, I would be very happy to see it.
Best regards
David
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Ashley
Here is some further information from my notes, working back from Albert Thomas Wells.
WELLS FAMILY
William Wells, Mariner marries Amelia Long in 1864 at Folkestone. She is b 1839 at Gosport. Williams father shown as George Wells, Carpenter.
In 1861 census the only George Wells, Carpenter (house carpenter) is listed as living at Bridport 76 South Street born 1811. Married to Mary Ann born 1815? at Burton Bradstock (or Bridport?). Children Caroline age 12 and Thomas age 10 both born at Bridport.
It appears that they married in 1845 in Bridport - 1841 census shows George, then a carrier living with parents John Wells b 1781 and Elizabeth Wells nee Marsh b 1771
(This Dorset connection may be a red herring but was the only George wells link I could find with a woodworking trade)
1861 census taken 6th April hong kong
William Wells single age 25 born boatswains mate on Imperieuse, royal navy. A wooden frigate with 51 guns. At time of census on duty East indies and china possibly involved in Anglo French attack on taku forts in second opium war. Many received the China medal.
from genuki coastguards:
Wells, William CON 1835 born Boscastle
1871 Bexhill SSX.
1871 - Wife: Amelia, 1839 Gosport HAM. Children: George A. & William J. & Charles T. & Amelia & Adelaide & Edwin, 1867 & 1868 & 1870 & 1872 & 1873 & 1875 Bexhill SSX, Ernest, 1877 Ashford KENt
1881 Night Watchman in Brompton LDN (RG11/0047/114) 1861 - unmarried
1891 census
William Wells age 56 born 1835 boscastle door keeper. Great GFather
Jane Wells age 49 born 1842 westbourne hants
Frank wells age 19 born 1872 London Groom
Harry wells age ? Could be 19 too London
Albert wells age 8 born 1883. London My grandfather
Sept 1908 Marriage Poplar Albert Thomas Wells Florence Parkinson
Albert aged 23 therefore born 1884/1885 Florence aged 21
Alberts father William Wells labourer living
1911 census - note Florence has become younger!
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image
WELLS, Albert Head Married M 27 1884 Labourer West Kensington VIEW
WELLS, Florence Wife Married
3 years F 20 1891 Poplar London VIEW
WELLS, Bessie Daughter Single F 3 1908 Poplar London VIEW
WELLS, Winifred Daughter Single F 0 (9 MONTHS) 1911 Poplar London VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1740 Reference:
RG14PN1740 RG78PN60 RD22 SD3 ED24 SN8
Deaths Dec 1931
Wells Albert T 47 Poplar 1c 444 therefore born 1884 - age 7 at time of 1891 census
Regards
David
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Ashley,
Back to your question of Amelia's death, I haven't pinpointed it but came up with these options:
Possible Amelia Wells Death
Deaths Mar 1873 (>99%)
WELLS Amelia 33 Lambeth 1d 285 POSSIBLE
Deaths Jun 1887 (>99%)
Wells Amelia 46 Strand 1b 378 UNLIKELY AGE c 44
Deaths Jun 1901 (>99%)
Wells Amelia 62 Godstone 2a 127 POSSIBLE But should have appeared on 1901 census
Deaths Sep 1902 (>99%)
Wells Amelia 61 Aston 6d 164 UNLIKELY AGE c63
Regards
David
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Ashley,
David
Some other information about William Wells service in the Coastguard, which someone on another forum led me to:
I have checked the Coastguard Establishment Books and found a number of entries for William. First nominated to the CG Service from HMS Imperieuse with a posting to Camber CGS on 16 May 1863 (ADM 175/10 pdf 55) followed by a posting to Kewhurst on 9 April 1866 (ADM 175/10 pdf 81). Despite looking at the CG Ships Establishment Books I was unable to find any additional information but there is a degree of duplication - ADM 175/64 pdf 67 & 175/65 pdfs 61 and 96.
Although you refer, in your list of ships he served on, to Dauntless and Hector, these were both CG HQ Ships used for administrative and training purposes, with many of the men on their books serving at landbased CG Stations. That said, your man would have undertaken a number of summer training cruises on them and in the event of a national crisis would have been expected to man the ship to form an Inshore Squadron with CG Ships from the other CG Districts.
I can confirm that according to Kevin Asplin's medal roll for the 2nd China War, William Wells, Boatswains Mate, received a no clasp medal. Born Boscastle, 25/07/35, CS number 4247A, paid off HMS Royal Adelaide 21/03/63.
It's a shame that the medal is not still with the family, as far as I know.
Regards
David
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Hi David
Many thanks for all the excellent information - I had managed to get some of William's naval records from the National Archive but the detail helps a lot.
Looking at the earlier research I am pretty convinced that William Jenkyn and William Wells are one and the same. I noticed that when he joined the navy he was illiterate so if they miswrote Wills for Wells he would not be able to correct them. Once he did learn to write he probably just copied the spelling the navy had used.
The person whose tree I am working on is also descended from the marriage to Florence Parkinson.
Looking at Albert I presume he is the Albert Arthur Thomas Wells registered in West Kensington in Q2 1882 though I have not ordered the certificate. As his father William married Lucy Jane Pullen (nee Collins) on 3 Feb 1889 at Fulham St Peter, then Albert's mother has to be Amelia, so her death has to be between Q2 1882 and Q1 1889, but I cannot find it. There is also the mystery of what happened to the younger children Edwin and James who just disappear - again I can find no deaths. Is it possible Amelia just absconded? The Frank and Harry who are there in 1891 were in fact Lucy Jane's children from the first marriage but marked with the surname Wells on the census.
Amelia is also a problem - her father is called George when she marries but the only Amelia Long who could be the right one has a father called Joseph.
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley,
I haven't cross-checked the dates for William Jenkyn from the emails but do they conflict at all with any other known dates for William e.g. when Imperieuse was away in China/Hongkong?
I have not come across a marriage between William Wells and Lucy Jane Pullen - what led you to that? I had concluded there were two marriages, one to Amelia and a later to Jane - as per the notes I shared. But I do not insist that my piecemeal research is all correct.
I take it you have not progressed further back into Williams line yet? I'm not active on this at the moment but would you be happy to share what information we both discover?
Regards
David
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Hi David
As I mentioned earlier on this thread William's father was alive on his first marriage but dead for the second. I got that marriage off Ancestry - same signature as the one in Folkstone.
There are no conflicts in terms of date except for year of birth - he says that his DOB is 25 July 1835 but the baptism is 27 Jul 1834 - he wouldn't be the first person in those days not to know how old he was.
Ashley
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That's reassuring Ashley.
I previously also found the following marriage:
1891 census
William Wells age 56 born 1835 boscastle door keeper. Great GFather
Jane Wells age 49 born 1842 westbourne hants
Frank wells age 19 born 1872 London Groom
Harry wells age ? Could be 19 too London
Albert wells age 8 born 1883. London My grandfather
I can't now locate this record on Freecen - maybe a coverage issue. Irritatingly I don't appear to have noted the census place or located Janes maiden name. I may have come across it when using FindMyPast in which case I usually took a screenshot of the entry - will have to search my archive. But unless I've had a complete meltdown on this, it does very much appear to be our William.
Regards
David
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Ok Ashley,
I found the census entry on FS:
Name: William Wells
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
County: London
Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical Parish: ST GEORGE CAMPDEN HILL
Sub-District:
Registration District: Kensington
Residence Note: Peel Street
Gender: Male
Age: 56
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Door Keeper
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1835
Birthplace: Cornwall, England
Schedule Type:
Page:
Page Number: 63
Line Number: 18
Registration Number: RG12
Piece/Folio: 19/ 184
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Wells Head M 56 Cornwall, England
Jane Wells Wife F 49 Hampshire, England
Frank Wells Son M 19 London, England
Harry Wells Son M 999 London, England
Albert Wells Son M 8 London, England
And my notes indicate the actual entry states place of birth as Boscastle.
Regards
David
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Hi Ashley,
Further to my earlier posts today, I've been exploring the theory that Mary Wills was married (and possibly widowed) before she married George Jenkyn, and that's perhaps why the Wills name was retained in some of the Jenkyn children including William (Wells).
I couldn't locate a Wills marriage between Williams birth in 1834/35 and the 1841 census however. Looking for the marriage of George Jenkyn, the only entry I find in OPC Cornwall is George Jenkyn marrying Mary Wills in 1831 at Forrabury, interestingly well before the birth of either of the children known to have used Wills/Wells. So perhaps Mary was a strong matriarchal figure wanting her maiden name to live on?
George Jenkyn also turns up as a witness at the marriage of Elizabeth Wills to a Richard Bartlett in 1936, so there definitely appears to be a connection between the two families.
Regards
David
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Hi David
Yes there is a clear link between them
Once you have accepted that the name should be Jenkyns it is quite easy to research backwards - they came up the coast from Padstow and before that from St Ives
As far as I can see the Wills family are from the Lanteglos/Advent area, but the wider family goes up into Morwenstow and also across the border into Devon
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley,
Did your research take you to:
George Jenkyns baptised Forrabury 30/3/1806
Parents Charles and Mariah nee England married Minster 1797, Charles shown as residing Lanteglos (which?)
Then there are multiple choices for Charles baptism. I favoured Padstow 1774 (right spelling, not too distant) but then checked the 'upstream' Jenkyns marriages and baptisms to find them much more southern/western Cornwall based. It sounds like you may have settled on the Padstow baptism - any significant evidence for this?
Regards
David
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Looks like the same story on the preceding generations - several candidates to chose from. What basis are you using to identify the father's line? Are you simply using best surname match, location, or are you rooting around siblings for linking information?
Great to be able to get back beyond William though!
Regards
David
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Hi David
George is clearly the son of Charles Jenkyn and his wife Maria nee England.
In the 1841 census they have a son living with them called Charles who does not appear in the local baptisms. If you search for his baptism with parents Charles and Maria then you will find it in Padstow proving the link. I have therefore assumed that the elder Charles was the son of Charles and Elizabeth and baptised 19 Sep 1773 as his first two children were called Elizabeth and Charles so he could be using the English naming system, it is also closer to his known age at death from his headstone information.
The Charles whom I have assumed to be his father also used the English naming system calling his children by Elizabeth, Charles and Honor, which ties him back to the baptism in 1752 in St Ives. His marriage to Elizabeth states that he was from the parish of St Ives.
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Thanks for that. One thing troubles me - that you make no mention of Richard.
If we accept that George was the son of Charles Jenkyn(s) and Maria(h) England, and that Charles was baptised 20/2/1774 at Padstow, OPC Cornwall has the parents at that baptism as Richard Jenkyns and "Eliza." presumably Elizabeth. There are two candidates for Richard - both in St Ives, one baptised 23/1/1749 and the other (Jenkyn) baptised 31/12/1747. But a burial of Richard, son of Charles is recorded in 1748 so I have favoured the later Richard, adooting the dead son's name. The Elizabeth I take to be Elizabeth Flamanke with the marriage on 18/11/1771 at St Ives.
Both these Richards appear to stem from the marriage in Phillack 30/3/1747 of Mr Charles Jenkin of St Ives and Margery Hicks.
There are three St Ives candidates (and some non-local outliers) for this Charles Jenkin: Charles Jenkyn baptised 17/1/1719, Charles Jenking baptised 2/3/1721 and Charles Jenken baptised 25/3/1724. One of these Charles was buried in 1720 which suggests the 1719 birth, although the transcriber has the parents of the buried child as Charles and Amy, and they are the parents of the 1724 birth.
Regards
David
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Hi David
I don't accept that it is the 1774 baptism at all. I think it is the 1773 baptism in Padstow with parents Charles and Elizabeth
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley,
My apologies for not responding earlier to your post - arrival of a new Wells grandson has proved rather distracting....
I think I misinterpreted your earlier post. You said that in the 1841 census Charles and Maria Jenkyn nee England have a son with them called Charles who was baptised in Padstow. Are you referring to the census entry for Dunn Street of Charles Jenkin, Innkeeper? That's the only one I could find with a son Charles listed.
The difficulty I then have is that the younger Charles is shown in the census as age 35 which means he was born c. 1806 but I find no matching baptism in Padstow or the Boscastle area, on either FindMyPast or on the OPC Cornwall site, so I am at a loss to find the link you refer to. Also, if Charles is 35, is he definitely a son? Or could he be a relative working for the family in the Inn?
If you could kindly shed some light on how you established the link I would be grateful.
Thanks
David
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Hi David
Congratulations on the addition to the family.
I'm not sure why you can't find this one - I've just checked on the Cornwall OPC
Charles age in the 1841 suggests a birth between 1801 and 1806. The baptism in on 30 Dec 1802 in Padstow - Charles Jenkins, son of Charles and Maria.
All the best
Ashley
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Thanks Ashley,
I had thought that was too big an age discrepancy. I guess now I'm further back in time I must expect more uncertainty re ages!
I will try to carve out some more time to progress back farther.
Regards
David
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Hi David
The 1841 census rounded ages to the nearest 5 downwards. Also most people were not literate so could not spell their own names and some often did not know their year of birth
At least you have broken the barrier between Wells and Jenkyn. Enjoy the journey
Ashley
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Thanks Ashley,
I wasn't aware of the 1841 rounding down.
Regards
David
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Dear Ashley (and all),
Could I ask for a lead please on the Wells/Jenk(yn) Family Ashley and I have both been researching. I’ve just picked this up again after an enforced break and I’m a bit stuck.
Working backwards, this is what I have in the main line:
William Wells (Jenkyn) b 1834/35 Forrabury
George Jenkyn b c.1806 m Mary Wills 1831 Forrabury
Charles Jenkyn (Jenkins) b 1773 Padstow m Maria(h) England 1797
Charles Jenkins of St Ives b 1752 m Elizabeth Cooper, widow of Padstow 1772
Charles Jenkyn (Jenken, Jenkin) b 1724 St Ives m Honor Paynter 1743
Charles Jenken b ???? m Amy Quick St Ives 1718
Charles Jenken b 1695 St Ives, wife?
Charles Jenken m Grace Richards? 1685 St Ives
Now, if we concur on that, I have difficulty with the next generation back. Charles and Grace I believe had 4 children in this order: Thomas, Honor, Grace and Charles. I’m therefore thinking that the first son’s grandfather may also be “Thomas” which leaves many possibilities, none of which appear to be at St. Ives.
Could you help me get unstuck please?
By the way Ashley, how far did you get back? Did you resolve the riddle of William Wells’s two wives?
Thanks for your help.
David Wells
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PS. And none of the candidate Thomas’s seem to have baptised a child named Charles! So I may be barking up the wrong tree!
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Hello David
You have got back as far as I have. Two notes though:I believe Elizabeth Cooper to be the Elizabeth Hellyar who married James Cooper at Bristol St Peter & St James 12 Jun 1766. Her age at death matches pretty much mathces up with the baptism of Elizabeth Hellier in Padstow 10 Jul 1741 and would explain why she would return there after her husband's death.
Rather than the Charles J born 1724 I have the one bap 17 jan 1718 to Charles J and Ann unknown. Charles senior bap 29 Sep 1695 so of Charles J and Grace Richards
As regards William Wells' two wives the first was Amelia Long b 1840 Gosport, d Q2 1887 Strand Registration District, the second was a widow Lucy Jane Pullen nee Collins b 1844 Westbourne Sussex whom he married 3 Feb 1889 Fulham St Peter
I presume you have William's naval records which are available online? Was in China for the second Opium War. If you go to http://www.wattis.com.hk/gallery yu can find contemporary paintings of HMS Imperieuse lying off both Hong Kong and China.
I hope that helps
Ashley
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Hi Ashley,
I thought you might have got back further, but I see St Ives records dry up around that time.
Yes I’ve seen the Naval records and the Wattis drawing...I even asked about its price...over £1,000 as I recall...I took a screenprint! I believe I shared information with you about 2nd China War (medal awarded, no clasp, probably long since pawned) and the boats William had served on.
So you don’t have Charles J and Amy Quick in the direct line? What led you to favour Charles and Ann instead? I asked about Williams’ two wives in case you had concluded if it was bigamy or a death had slipped past the records!
Thanks
David
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Hi Ashley and all,
Hope you are keeping safe and well in these challenging times!
I’m just picking up my research again with the benefit of some Christmas downtime and looking at siblings and their marriages etc. I’ve gone back over something I’d missed in one of your replies to me Ashley re William Wells b Boscastle 1834 having sons James and Edwin who trails had gone cold.
I don’t have a son James in my tree and was wondering where you found him?
Also, regarding Albert Thomas, husband of Florence Parkinson, I was wondering if you too had come across him as a member of the Cheshire regiment, Machine Gun Corps then Tanks Corps? It seems to fit and has “Florence” as next of kin but I just question why the Cheshire Regiment?
Some other details I’ve found which you may be interested in, if you don’t already have them:
George Jenkyn b 1837 Boscastle appears on Royal Navy Reserve Service records 1861 (Nat Archive) I haven’t ordered the papers as yet.
William Wells (Jenkyn) was actually born and baptised 1834. Navy record slightly out. (Ambly had called this out).
Williams first wife Amelia d 1887 at Charing Cross Hospital. Buried in common grave in Brompton Cemetery
Williams second wife, Lucy Jane Pullen nee Collins b 13/4/1844 Westbourne Sussex (Father James Collins Dairyman, mother Lucy) previously married Henry Francis PULLEN at St. John the evangelist Notting Hill 30/3/1872
Williams Son George m? Anna (Annie) Ryder b. 1866 Froxfield Wilts (before 1891) police constable lived at Princes Square St. George’s in the East - I haven’t yet found the marriage
William John Wells was also a Constable lived at 126 Manchester Road, Poplar m Sarah Esther Burt bc 1865 Bury St Edmunds lived at 23 Stadium St 20/9/1891 St John’s Chelsea
Sarah May have died 1924 in Chelsea.
Daughter Florence Esther started Cubitt Town School 20/9/97 lived at 26 Seyssel (St) d? 1976 Wandsworth
Florence Esther, dressmaker m Harry Frank Saunders 9/9/1916 Christ church Poplar. Harry, a clerk enlisted at start of WW1 to serve with 4 London Field Ambulance, RAMC, medical discharge d 1977 Havering, residence 316 Green Lane SW16
Son Eric Raymond Saunders b 21/10/1917 Wandsworth bap. St Peter, Acton Green, Ealing. d 9/4/1993 54 Mountview Crescent St Lawrence Southminster. Probate not exc £125k. Wireless operator, was 1st Radio Officer on MV Gloucester arr New York 1944
Williams daughter Amelia b 1872 was employed as a Domestic servant in 1891 living 154 Notting Hill High Street
William’s Son “Earnest” lived at Stoke, Devonport in 1911, Gov dockyard labourer m Elizabeth Jane Bath 25 June 1904 Forrabury bc 1883 Boscastle both living in Plymouth in 1939
Children:
Olive May b 1905 Stonehouse, Devon
Earnest bc 1908 Millbrook Cornwall
Olive May m Albert T Bath b 1900, lived with Earnest and Elizabeth at 8 Bickham pk rd, Plymouth
Bessie Wells b 1908 married Mar 1940 Southwark Frederick Arthur Chettle, photographic finisher b Walworth Jun 1907 d Bromley Mar 1995
Florence Parkinson died (in fact was buried at) Epping 1965
Best regards
David
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Hi David
Sorry just spotted this one!
Going back to the 1881 census I realise that I misread Ernest b 1877 for James - the final 't' is very light on ancestry and I missed it. Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you also for the additional information.
Ashley
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Hi Ashley,
I am close to concluding my Wells family tree. I have tentatively progressed back beyond Charles and Grace, through the Jenkins of Wendron and St Columb Major back to John Jenken alias Pendyne of Columb St Major d. Before 12 Dec 1504 (when will proved). This tentatively leads to some baronets in a side branch including Sir John Cary of Clovelly where his Jenkins wife is commemorated in the church there.
I also found the account of William Wells brother John being lost at sea in the Royal Cornwall Gazette. He was sailing on the Schooner T.P.C. from Boscastle to Saltash and lost in a gale. I found him also on the vessels Enterprise of Hayle and the smack Peneley.
Happy to provide further details of any of this if you are interested,
One thing I haven’t located is the death of William Wells b. 1834 Boscastle. I found him witnessing daughter Adelaide’s wedding to James Osborne in 1902 and I have a note that he was still around in 1911 at 34 Pitt Street Notting Hill, though due to an iPad dying I can’t retrieve the image of that entry I saved to verify this.
Did you pinpoint Williams death by any chance?
Thanks and regards
David