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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: roly on Friday 10 March 17 12:15 GMT (UK)
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I've asked about this man before and have since amassed material that gives a time-line; but I'm stuck at two points - interconnected.
Firstly, Oxlade had married a Sarah Sheldrick in 1794 and there were children of the marriage. I can find no death notice for Sarah. Can anyone help?
Secondly, two girls of the marriage died in 1812. It's possible that Sarah died at that time as well. It's also possible that this was due to an epidemic - there was a whooping-cough epidemic in London that year.
At any rate, John Oxlade moved to Portsea where he married again (1813). Had he moved, I wonder, i consequence of tghe deaths of membes of his family?
I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
roly
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When/where were the children born. Where were the 1812 deaths
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The only Sarah Oxlade I can find buried in 1812 was at Mitcham, Surrey and I note that the various online trees have their children baptised in London and Mitcham - are you sure this is the same family?
Aside from that, the Sarah Oxlade buried at Mitcham 12/1/1812 was aged 73 years so neither mother or daughter. Cannot find another Oxlade burial at Mitcham in 1812.
Annette
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Yeah. Got that 1812 death and the coincidence with the death of the children but, altogether, it all seems so very unlikely (John Oxlade was born in 1770).
Birth of Sarah Sheldrick? Can't find anything as yet.
roly
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John Oxlade married Sarah Sheldrick in December 1794 St. Botolph Aldgate, London
Are these their children
Baptisms at Whitechapel
Frances Susanna born 17 Dec 1793 christened 19 March 1802
William Thomas baptised 6 December 1795 (abode Church Lane)
Who are the children that died 1812 and where were they buried
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Oh. This knocks me sideways. However, I've been following the growth of a substantial Oxlade family website that would appear to suggest or confirm the following details - that add up...
JO's first family consised of Richard, b. Mitcham, c. 1793; d. Camberwell c. 1841 George, b. Mitcham 1795 and dyingin the same year
Saqrah, b. Mitcham 1796 and dying in 1812
Ann, b. Mitcham 1797 (no date of death so far)
Eliaberh, b. Mitcham 1798; d. 1812
JO himself, it seems, worked as a shoemaker in Finsbury after removal from Portsea up until 1841 and died in 1850.
In between, his family with Mary Ann Oxlade was as follows:
Henry, b. Finsbury c. 1820
John Thomas, b. 1824
Sarah Elizabeth, b. 1825
Mary Ann, b. 1829
Given the names Sarah Elizabeth and Matry Ann, there would seem to be a stgrong connection. In the end, then, your findings may have been of a different family.
Onwards and sideways
roly
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The 1841 date given above might suggest that John Oxlade was included in the 1841 census but I can't find him (my ineptitude, I suppose). I've got the date of death in 1850 in Greenwich.
roly
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Just for clarification is John the son of William & Lettice baptised London 03 Jun 1770
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Yes- son of Wm. and Lettice and born 1770.
roly
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Are you sure he was a shoemaker, there seems to be another John Oxlade born around the same date in London who was a book binder?
Jennifer
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According to my sources - chiefly the Oxlade family archive online - JO began working life as a bookbinder and only became a shoemaker after he left Portsea for London in c. 1820.
I confess that this has puzzled me too. In fact, there are quite a few possible anomalies in his life history. But they are, so to speak, another story.
roly
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Sorry I'm getting into this a bit late :'(
John Oxlade and Sarah Sheldrick marry in 1794 - Aldgate - witness is William Oxlade
Baptisms - no mother's name given, nor occupation:
Frances Susannah - 1793 (baptised 1802) - Whitechapel - so born before they married
William Thomas - 1795 - Whitechapel
Richard - 1793 - Mitcham - possibly buried 1805 :-\
George - infant son of John - buried 1795
Sarah - 1796 - Mitcham
Elizabeth - 1798 - Mitcham
Henry - 1820 - Islington - John is a Shoemaker and married to Mary Ann
John Thomas - 1825 - Islington - John is a Book binder and married to Mary Ann
Sarah Elizabeth - 1828 - Islington - John is a Bookseller and married to Mary Ann
I can't readily see a Mary Ann in 1829. I haven't attempted to look for him in Portsea.
My view is that you have more than one John Oxlade here.
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Witness at the Sheldrick marriage is quite likely to have been John's father.
Most everything else could 'fit' although the two children born in Whitechapel are the two that I was doubtful about.
My info. is, as I wrote before, that Richard was a cheesemonger...
Oxlade definitely married Mary Ann Terry in 1813 in Portsea and he definitely worked out of Portsea, producing broadside ballads. He moved back to London from Portsea after a downturn in trade at the end of the Napoleonic wars.
The new stuff for me - many thanks - are the continued references to Mary Ann and the fact that Oxlade's his son Henry was a shoemaker (an element of confusion, perhaps, in my source of info.); and the, absolutely relevantly, that JO worked at his old trades as bookbinder and bookseller...His first qualification, incidentally, was as an attorney but he was imprisoned in 1798 for three years - he was involved with the London Corresponding Society and the times that were in it meant that such organisations were suspected of sedition. JO later wrote an account of his imprisonment...
My initial thoughts were that after imprisonment he found it difficult to work again as an attorney; and the deaths of two children in the same year (1812) represented a final straw and may have precipitated his removal to Portsea.
There is a blank period between his release from prison in 1800 and 1813 - what was he up to?
Interestingly, so far, there appear to be no records of the deaths of either Sarah or Mary Ann (?).
roly
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Oh, dear...Misreading. John it was, as you write, who was the shoemaker. This, all the same, confirms the direction in which the story is going.
Finsbury? Islington? Both mentioned in respect of births...What's the geography?
Still the nag about Sarah's (Sheldrick's) death.
roly
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Finsbury? Islington? Both mentioned in respect of births...What's the geography?
Very close, try g*gle maps ;D
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From a tree on Ancestry - with image
St Giles, Cripplegate - Ann, daughter of John Oxlade (Bookbinder) and Ann - born 18, baptised 21 December 1798
From the same tree: John Oxlade
Born 1770
1789 - entered apprenticeship as a "Clerk to Thomas Lewis in the practice of an Attorney, Solicitor and agent for the term of 5 years."
1791 - joins a Masonry Lodge as an Attorney aged 21
1792 - Masonry Lodge as a Gentleman
1796 - Freedom of the Company of Stationers - by Patrimony
1798 - Gaoled as a member of the London Corresponding Society
Am I missing something here :-\
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BumbleB...I don't think so. ' Your' Ann matches 'my' Ann as set out previously, born 1797, baptised 1798...But I'm not quite sure who your second Ann is. 'My' mother of 'my' Ann was Sarah...Make sense?
I have all the details of JO's life that you added.
Really, the only family details that I'm missing (still) are the dates of death of Sarah and Mary Ann; and then, outside the family, what JO was doing immediately after his imprisonment (released c. 1801)...and up until 1813.
This would complete a portrait of sorts.
Many thanks to all contributors so far.
roly
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See for yourself ;)
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Have you discounted this as you mentioned Islington earlier :-\
OXLADE, MARY ANN age 65
1863 Sept Quarter
ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 230
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Sorry, this could be more hassle for you :'( William Oxlade, father of John. Compare these signatures!
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Mary Ann, 65 in 1863, would have been fifteen when she married JO - certainly not impossible. Is this a date of death?
No problem with William and his various marriages. His father, be it said, was William also. It's no 'hassle' but doesn't answer my questions.
roly
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BumbleB - is this a
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BumbleB - is this a marriage notice?
roly
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The three signatures are taken from marriage entries - the first was for John's marriage to Sarah, and the other two are for William's marriages to Ursula and Eleanor. I can't readily find an image for William and Lettice's marriage - I wish I could. I was trying to point out, without saying so, that the signature on John's marriage entry bears absolutely no resemblance to the other two.
The tree on Ancestry says that Mary Ann is the widow of John Oxlade - Bookbinder - of 17 Frog Lane, Islington, and she died 28 September 1863. aged 65. BUT that can't be right - the attached is the transcription of the Marriage Licence entry for John and Mary Ann in 1813. He is 21 (and possibly older) and a BACHELOR, whilst Mary Ann is also 21. :-\
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Evidently, at this time, the age of 21 could mask a series of of circumstances: a way of 'escaping' parental control or a way of disguising one partner's much older age. This is why I suggested that the Mary Ann in question could have married at the age of 15!
Thanks, anyway, for the date of death. I'll peruse the signatures at length.
If, though, Mary Ann was the widow of John Oxlade, how do we acocunt for the 'Ann'...in question.
Curioser and curioser.
roly
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As pointed out to me (!) there seems to be no doubt that an Ann Oxlade was born to a John Oxlade and his wife Ann in 1798 in Cripplegate, London.
Previous information had indicated that an Elizabeth Oxlade was born in 1797 in Cripplegate to a JO and his wife whom I thought to be Sarah (as discussed here).
I wonder: did Sarah die in 1798? Did Ann take her place immediately? And how long were John and Ann married? John's marriage to Mary Ann Terry in 1813 posits an end and a beginning...
Alternatively, was my previous information re. Elizabeth wrong and that she was born to a second wife, not to Sarah? Speculatively, perhaps the daughter was actually named Elizabeth Ann (there are records of such a birth).
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Apropos John Oxlade's imprisonment, there are records that show him paying overseers for his wife's maintenance at this time; and between 1802 and 1904 he owed rent on his lodgings. Things could not be worse - except for those deaths in 1812.
What, though, was JO doing between 1804 and 1813? We have to assume that he was working at his trades as bookseller and bookbinder. Surely, after imprisonment, he could not have taken up work as an attorney again.
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As a sort of side-issue, serial marriages were not unknown - William Oxlade's trio help to confirm this. And one would expect them to be matters of economic need. Thus, William married Eleanor Waller when she was 17. Thus, JO appears to have married Mary Ann when she was but 15 - the anomaly of registered ages of spouses has been noted already.
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With respect to the signatures kindly provided for me, it is interesting that JO signed himself 'Oxlad'.
The puzzles continue. I'm grateful for contributors' patience.
roly
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Sorry to have caused you so much confusion.
I'm wondering whether we do have more than one John Oxlade here, and indeed more than one William Oxlade. Reasons:
As we have seen from John and Sarah's marriage entry, both John and William sign themselves as Oxlad in 1794, and William's signature does not match with the other signatures.
William Oxlade signs as Oxlade on the marriage entries for Ursula and Eleanor. Do you have the actual marriage entry for William and Lettice to see whether that matches, or not?
Do you have the actual marriage entry, and Marriage Allegation for John's marriage to Mary Ann Terry in 1813 - not just the transcriptions? Again to see how that matches with anything else.
Land Tax records show that John Oxlade was paying this tax in St Leonard, Shoreditch 1808-1817, plus in 1813 Tower of London area. - Ancestry
Old Bailey - 31 October 1810 - John Oxlade, fruiterer in City Road. - www.londonlives.org
St Martin's Workhouse - John Oxlade pauper, admitted 11 December 1805, discharged 27 January 1808 (died) aged 61. - www.londonlives.org
So a number of John Oxlade personnel around in London at that time. Sorry :'(
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I've only just joined this thread, so may well have missed something.
After a quick run through, I get the impression that your John Oxlade was not the John Oxlad who married Sarah in 1794.
I think Your John was a batchelor when he married in Portsea in 1813.
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The William Oxlad signature, for the witness to John and Sarah's 1794 marriage, is the same as the signature of the William Oxlad who married Frances Davie in 1788 at St.Botolph Aldgate
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Right! So (a) the 'Oxlad' pursuit can be curtailed in favour of 'Oxlade (?). This sets up yet more problems
(b) My infos, from the online Oxlade family archives, may actually lead in a direction other than to Portsea. How, then, do you explain a John Oxlade printing all broadside ballads under the imprimateur of 'W. Oxlade' in Portsea when there's never a mention of a 'W. Oxlade' in Portsea at the time? (PS this is not a challenge, but a genuine question). Maybe I put two and two together but JO's previous life, including prison sentence, the deaths of children in 1812 and the fact that printers and other tradesmen frequented Portsea during the Napoleonic wars only to encounter a decline in trade immediately afterwards that sent them back, sometimes, from whence they came, are all, surely, of note and, perhaps, matching up. I'm not the only one to find out that the family (involved in printing) of Brian Blessed, the actor, did exactly this.
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Hmm. This needs a lot more time. Looks like BumbleB is carefully chipping through to the facts.
Do you already have this?
1841 Clerkenwell - Peter Street
John Oxlade 65 Bookbinder No
Mary Ann Oxlade 40 Bonnet maker Yes
John Oxlade 15 Bookbinder Yes
Possibly not your Oxlades, as Mary Ann was born in county, but John wasn't.
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Lily - I note that Clerkenwell details. I knew that Mary Ann was born in Midlesex so these dtails might fit, especially given all the other dates that have been assembled.
But I didn't quite finish (technology)...
I was going to say that it might seem that my invesigations have taken several wrong turns - but, then, so did the Oxlade family archives.
I'll chuck another one in. JO worked out of the same Queens Street, Portsea, as did James Willimas, printer, a radical who was himself imprisoned along with William Hone. I wonder if he helped JO settle in Portsea (if, indeed, JO did).
roly
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I'm not dismissing your other queries, but just to address one -
Are you sure that the children who died in 1812 were John's? According to the transcript of Winchester Marriage Licences, John was a bachelor when he married Mary Ann.
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Well, they seem to have been the children of 'my' JO (double/treble checking in progress); and even if the JO who married Mary Ann was a batchelor, it's possible that this was, so to speak, a legal convenience in description as was '21' the proper age to marry. And I have to come back to one of bedrock points: how did he suddenly come to print ballads with the name 'W. Oxlade' on them? I've never found an instance of aprinter taking up somebody else's stock unless the legend on copy states that certain ballads were printed 'for' a printer. I can only think that JO was connected to 'W. Oxlade' in some way.
roly
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Well done Lily :)
roly - I think you have to get the image of the marriage entry and Allegation for John and Mary Ann. I'm assuming that John is part of your family tree, which is why I think you should confirm that you do in fact have the right marriage.
From your other post related to Oxlade, you were given this connection:
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~oxladefamilyhistory/occup_printers_booksellers.html
And in there there was reference to William Crawford in A List of London Bookbinders 1648-1815 by Ellic Howe: In 1815 his son Alexander was apprenticed to John Oxlade of Union Street, Hoxton. This is the John Oxlade who was imprisoned without Trial because of his membership of the London Corresponding Society.
If this is correct, then John is certainly back in London by 1815
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Do you know what happened to John's brother, William? (Bap.1768 s.of William & Lettice).
Maybe he was the one printing in Portsea.
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This relates to earlier enquiries that now have yielded a life history for John Oxlade. However, I can't locate his narrative (1837) describing his imprisonment as a result of his connections with the London Corresponding Society (c. 1798 - 1800).
I have seen it online; but have no reference. I've tried the Oxlade Family History Group webpage without luck; and have tried several times to contact Susan Rogers who has done such sterling work on the Oxlade family sagas. No luck there either.
Can anyone point me back in the direction of the narrative?
roly
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I have seen it online; but have no reference.
It's in the British Library, in Add. MS 27809. See the catalogue extract below.
I can't see the actual text of the Narrative online anywhere.
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Thank you for the reference; but I certainly did read John Oxlade's Narrative online. Where is it, I wonder?
roly
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Hello Roly,
My mum found some papers kept by my Great Uncle from the Oxlade Family Tree Webpage. Since she has shown them to me, I am keen to get in contact with other Oxlade members.
I would like to offer information to help expand the Oxlade family tree & learn about my lineage. If you know of anyone who is currently active in expanding this or still working on the Oxlande Family History, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thanks
Jennie
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Apologies for coming late to the party, so to speak, but I have been tracking down the forebears of my ancestor Mary Oxlade wife of William Crawford, saw this thread and thought I could contribute.
It seems to me that the Oxlad references belong to a different family - the 1788 marriage of William Oxlad does not match either William Oxlade b 1743 (then married to Eleanor Waller) or his son William Oxlade b 1768 (William Oxlad was already a widower according to marriage record). Likewise the baptismal records from Mitcham are almost certainly from other branches of the Oxlade family (there are other records for Oxlades in Mitcham dating back 50 years or so). Also, if William Oxlad is unrelated to William Oxlade, bookbinder, then the 1803 burial for William Oxlad is almost certainly not that of William Oxlade, bookbinder. Furthermore, there is no reliable record for the death of his son, William, born 1768 - although there is a burial in Dulwich College for 1769, this is more likely to be William, son of Richard Oxlade, baptised in Dulwich 1768.
So, William Oxlade of Portsea could be either William, b 1743 or his son. It is not necessary to assume that John Oxlade was printing in his father's name. Other than his marriage to Mary Ann Terry in 1813, there may be little to connect John Oxlade to Portsea. One point of interest, though, is that John and Mary Ann were living in Peerless Row when their children, Henry, John Thomas and Sarah Elizabeth, were baptised. Peerless Row was also the address of William and Mary Crawford.
I am, however, a little perplexed by John Oxlade presenting himself as a bachelor at his wedding to Mary Ann. In 1798, John Oxlade, bookbinder, and his wife Ann, baptised a daughter, Ann, a couple of months before his arrest. So why present as a bachelor ( unless it is a simple mistake)?
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I'm glad that you did to the pa
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I'm glad that you did get to the party. I'd almost given up trying to reconcile all the dates that I'd previously put together. I would just say that I was guided, initially, by the Oxlade Family Tree, as compiled by Susan Rogers in Australia. I haven't heard from her for some years now...
Anyway, I'll ponder and respond as soon as I can. Thank you for your interest.
roly
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Something else that might be of interest and which I haven't seen noted anywhere else.
John Oxlade appears to be referenced in the 1794 trial of Robert Watt in Edinburgh for high treason. This trial followed the arrest of organisers of a Scottish convention, supported by English Corresponding Societies. The charge against the defendants was based on a supposed plot "the pike plot" to arm thousands of supporters with pikes and violently overthrow the government in Scotland. The accused were all found guilty; Robert Watt was executed and the other defendants transported to Botany Bay.
One of the witnesses for the prosecution, John Taylor, a government spy, reported that at a meeting of the LCS he had seen a walking stick designed to be converted into a pike by screwing a dagger to it. Also that an altercation had arisen from a man in the name of Oxlade who was wearing red clothes. Some members objected on the basis that red was a mark of aristocracy. Oxlade said that "he had been in a military line, and held a place in the society ... in the same situation. That the London Corresponding Society was not without places of a military resort".
The same year John Taylor was a key witness in the prosecution of John Thelwall of the LCS. This time his evidence was discredited as unreliable by the defence barristers and John Thelwall was acquitted (along with Thomas Hardy, founder of the LCS, and all other defendants).
When John Oxlade was arrested in 1798, a key point of evidence against him (according to his narrative) was a pike found in his house. He explained that "he had held a commission in the London Militia and had been a member of the Artillery Company". This seems to confirm that John Oxlade was the earlier Oxlade and at least partially corroborates John Taylor's evidence at Robert Watt's trial.
So, how close did John Oxlade come to a treason trial? Could there have been enough evidence to prosecute based on the physical evidence of a pike (and also, according to John Oxlade himself, a musket) and John Taylor's testimony at Robert Watt's trial? Or was John Taylor too discredited by the Thelwall trial to be asked to testify again? Does this perhaps explain why John Oxlade was amongst a group of prisoners treated more harshly than other LCS members arrested the same time?
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I apologise for a very tardy response...
This note is to extend the evidence for John Oxlade's presence in Portsea after he married Mary Anne Terry in 1813. There is a Hampshire Telegraph advertisement in 1813 noting Oxlade's extensive stock. In 1816 there is a case of the alleged theft of books from John Oxlade - though, in this case, the name of the complainant is given as 'W. Oxlade'.
There is no sign elsewhere in directories of any 'W. Oxlade during the period of John Oxlade's residence in Portsea (ending in 1820) and no sign of any Oxlade thereafter.
Yet John Oxlade's ballad stock was issued under the name of 'W. Oxlade' - which is why I suggested that he may have taken over his father's business.
Printers' ballad stocks at the time tended to follow a pattern - reference to historical events (tho' often retrospectively); sometimes a comment on the times; a similar concern for politics; 'borrowing' from popular stage presentations and from opera; extensive sharing of material with other printers; lyrical compositions of varying hue; and, now and then, specific reference to the locality.
Two ballads in Oxlade's stock exemplify the last-named. Rime's Alley concerns a well-known as a haunt of certain ladies; and there is a ballad about Portsdown Fair. Again, ballad-printers often took the theme (in this case of a fair) and set the ballad in their own locality. No other ballad-printers seem to have referenced Portsdown Fair.
In addition, ballads do mention an 'I Woolfe' as progenitor and performer of ballads and it appears that such a person had a long and successful career...It may be that he was actually a 'J. Woolfe'...
This is scant coverage of a multi-complex industry; but there seems to be no doubt that, aside from his marriage, John Oxlade can be placed in Portsea.
This makes it all the more difficult to be certain about the provenance of his ballad-stock and, what is more, his personal pedigree.
I'm still working on it!
roly
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Hi im decended from the above people my Gr grt Grandfather who lived and had the. Bookbinders in Peerless row
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The John Oxlade and Mary Anne (née) Terry that I've been researching apparently moved from Portsea, where they had married in 1813, to London at some stage around 1820. John's trade, at that time, was 'shoemaker' although later references have him as a bookbinder. There is a confused record of a son, Henry, born at that time. The couple went on to have other children - John Thomas, for instance, who followed his father's trade as bookbinder.
Does any of this 'fit' what you know? I'd be delighted if you have more information and if you felt it necessary to correct anything I've written.
roly
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I'm sorry, Time Keeper. I'd overlooked your contribution - to your gr.gr.grandfather who had the bookbinding business in Peerless Row. Any more information would be very welcome.
Currently, I'm thinking that 'my' John Oxlade, when he moved from Portsea to London in or around 1820, can be located in Peerless-row - perhaps at the family home of Alexander Crawford (brother-in-law).
roly