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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: j-allen on Saturday 11 March 17 13:16 GMT (UK)
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I am having trouble finding any information from 1901 to 1938 for this couple.
John Henry Crisp b.1869 Lilbourne, Rubgy married Beatrice Jane Christiana Mary King in Sutton Coldfield in 1898 and had a child Muriel Annie in Dec. qtr 1899. Before he married John Henry had on 3.12.1891 joined the Royal Engineers, Birmingham aged 22yrs. 11 mths. as a carpenter.
On the 1901 census: Beatrice Crisp 25, Reservist Pay, Muriel 1, East Lynn, Boldmere Road, Sutton Coldfield, Warwks. I assume John Henry is away with his Unit.
Then all information seems to come to a halt. I cannot find anyone on the 1911 census and I know why they are not on the 1939 Register. On 2.11.1938 on the Ship Esperance Bay – Departure from Southampton, Mr. John H. Crisp – Scot’s Arms Hotel, Great Barr, Birmingham, landing in Fremantle, Western Australia – Retired aged 70. Mrs. Beatrice Crisp, same address, Housewife 63 and I have no idea what happened to Muriel as she is not sailing with them.
I am also interested in why they gave their address as Scot's Arms Hotel, Great Barr on the ship's manifest (although looking it up I see it is Scott Arms) Were they the proprietors of this establishment? Or had they sold up before embarking on their voyage to Australia and were just staying there until the ship sailed?
Any help in filling in the gaps would be extremely appreciated. Many thanks.
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Deaths Sep qtr 1949
Muriel A Crisp age 49
Solihull 9c 718
I think you can ignore that one as she appears to be married ;)
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Thanks rosie99 that could well be her.
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I discounted her as I don't think that is her as there is someone with that name in that area who is married on 1939 register ;)
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Possible relative?
Birmingham Mail
27th Feb 1939
"West Bromwich Albion players attended the funeral of Mr John Crisp, licensee of the Scotts Arms Hotel, Great Barr for the past 5 years"
He apparently played for them in his past.
Further snippets give his age as 43 and his widow as Ada Crisp to whom the licence of the Scotts Arms was transferred.
Midland Electoral rolls have a Muriel Annie Crisp living with a Henry Crisp in 1930 and 1935 at 28 Melrose Road, Handsworth.
Also a small piece in the newspaper of a marriage in 1942 of Trooper Stanley Pearson and Miss Muriel Crisp who" resides in Birmingham". No details of her family though.
Cathy
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The CRISPs seem to be in Western Australia as early as 1910. (Australia Electoral Rolls.)
Maureen
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Thanks rosie99 got what you meant now! ::)
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Possible relative?
Birmingham Mail
27th Feb 1939
"West Bromwich Albion players attended the funeral of Mr John Crisp, licensee of the Scotts Arms Hotel, Great Barr for the past 5 years"
He apparently played for them in his past.
Further snippets give his age as 43 and his widow as Ada Crisp to whom the licence of the Scotts Arms was transferred.
Midland Electoral rolls have a Muriel Annie Crisp living with a Henry Crisp in 1930 and 1935 at 28 Melrose Road, Handsworth.
Also a small piece in the newspaper of a marriage in 1942 of Trooper Stanley Pearson and Miss Muriel Crisp who" resides in Birmingham". No details of her family though.
Cathy
That makes very interesting reading Cathy and I have found John Crisp and he was John Henry's nephew. I had no idea he was footballer as well, so quite sad that he died at a relatively young age.
I will look into Muriel's marriage to Stanley Pearson to see if she is mine.
Many thanks to you for all the information, it is much appreciated!
Janice
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The CRISPs seem to be in Western Australia as early as 1910. (Australia Electoral Rolls.)
Maureen
Yes John Henry's brother Joseph I believe Maureen. Joseph's his eldest son was born on the Iberia going over there. I assume this is whom you refer to. I am researching each of my gt. grandmother Emma E. Crisp's brothers and sisters so haven't fully got to Joseph yet. In fact I have no idea whether John Henry and Joseph link up in Australia at all as I don't know where Joseph settled with his family but as he was 10 years older than his brother, by 1938 he may not have been alive by then.
Many thanks.
Janice
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I really meant John Henry and Beatrice were in WA by 1910. :)
Maureen
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I really meant John Henry and Beatrice were in WA by 1910. :)
Maureen
Ah, sorry I misconstrued that, as I knew his elder brother was already out there. In fact Maureen so glad you have pointed this out now as being John Henry, it may well explain why I can't find the family on the 1911 census here. So perhaps he and Beatrice went there to live a lot earlier than I had thought if he's on an electoral role.
I am seeing a different picture now and when he was here in 1838 he may perhaps have been back here visiting relatives as he was 70 by this time.
Thanks again.
Janice
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:) :)
That's fine,Janice. I wasn't very clear. Sorry.
Yes,they seem to have moved to Aus. quite early on. Not too many Beatrice Jane Christina Mary Crisps roaming around. :)
I'm not very good at Aus. genealogy.
Maureen
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I did find John Henry's death notice,though:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01joq/
It's in the first column. Quite a few children!
Maureen
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Thanks so much Maureen this has been a bit of an eye opener!
I see Muriel wasn't there on the death notice as a mentioned daughter. If they went to Australia sometime shortly after the 1901 census around 1902/3 surely they took Muriel who was just a baby!
Janice
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Yes,I was thinking that Muriel must have died as a child/young woman.
Maureen
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I have done my own family tree search which entailed the 'Crisp' surname being changed to 'Ingram' in the 1800's. The Crisps in my family tree all come from 'Crick' in Northampton/Warrickshire dating back to the early 1700's and ended up coming to Leicester city area as Ingram's!
The name change comes in the 1800's with a Samuel Crisp which seems to be to avoid hefty fines as was a petty criminal!
I would love to find others who are connected in my family tree of Crisp's originating in 'Crick' Northamptonshire/Warrickshire so please make contact to share trees if you wish.
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John Henry and Beatrice Jane Christiana Crisp were my grandparents. JH was not in the 1901 census as he was serving in South Africa (Boer war). After the war the couple and daughter Muriel moved to South Africa to live. I believe they had two daughters, Mabel and Ethel while possibly living in the Port Elizabeth area. They then relocated to Western Australia, where Joseph Crisp was living. They lived in the Perth suburb of Maylands and had a total of ten children. Muriel died at the age of 11.
JH and Beatrice did travel to England in the late 1930s before returning to live in Western Australia.
JH died on June 6 1944 and BJCM died on December 26 1953.
Please let me know if you would like more information.
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Thank you so much for all the information you sent Jane47. I have copied and pasted it until I can sit down with my Crisp family and fit in all the information. When I have time to do this I might get back to you.
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I have Crisps on my tree going back to my 7th gt grandfather, John, reputedly born London, 1660, died Nottingham, 1699.
The family remains in Notts until 1808 when Elizabeth marries William Sanders of Coventry in Leicester. The couple live in Coventry, where they have nine children.
Their 8th child, James Crisp Sanders, my 2nd gt grandfather, married Eliza Bidmead in Coventry, where they had a number of children before moving to Aston, Birmingham in 1863, where more children were born.
If this line sounds familiar to anyone I would be delighted to hear from them.
Regards,
Keith
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"The Scott Arms" was also used by locals as an address - I had a few relatives in the area, and the area went by that name. It may not be a connection to the hotel per se.