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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: homer46 on Sunday 12 March 17 14:21 GMT (UK)
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in the freebmd.org.uk site
marriages--dec 1905 percy george murdock marries maria sarah roffey. w.ham 4a 667
sep 1906 percy george murdock marries sarah elizabeth roffey w ham 4a 428
i know about sarah elizabeth she ended up in manjimup western australia with percy.
i have been looking for her sister maria who appears to be born in 1878 in shadwell(wapping)essex.
i have her in the 1881 census with her parents in shadwell.
i think i have her 1891 census in friern barnet(enfield) age 13 born in hackney
then i am unable to pick her up any more. can any one find her
question- is it possible that percy george married both sisters or could there be a mistake
regards homer46
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Certainly possible for a man to marry two sisters although that is a quick turnaround. Have you got a death for the first wife?
The marriage certificates would confirm if the ladies had the same fathers name/occupation.
If he married again in 1906 then you shouldn't find Maria after that date.
Are the girls together as children, what is the age difference between them?
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Sorry put the wrong name :-[
Sarah Elizabeth is down as born the same year 1878 so could it be they were cousins not sisters, are they together as little girls with the same parents?
I can't find a death for Maria between Dec 1905 and Sep 1906.
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There is a possible child MURDOCK, WINIFRED MAY mmn ROFFEY
1905 June Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 476
If the mother died shortly after childbirth it would not be the first time the husband married a sister of his late wife.
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But they weren't even married in Jun 1905 - I am ???
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But they weren't even married in Jun 1905 - I am ???
I did not notice it was December marriage - back to the drawing board ;D
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There are two couples on the 1905 marriage - can we be certain that Murdock/Roffey is the correct pairing or is it just an assumption?
Other two names are
John Carid Mitchell
Mary Ross
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I can't find a death for Maria 1905-06
Mark
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But they weren't even married in Jun 1905 - I am ???
My grandpa and his 9 siblings (1900-1920) were all registered as **** with maiden name xxxxxx but their parents never married.
Buying the marriage certificates might be the only way to resolve this.
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Checked all the online parish registers for West Ham registration district. Neither marriage there. Maybe it was registry office or catholic?
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There is a possible child MURDOCK, WINIFRED MAY mmn ROFFEY
1905 June Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 476
This little girl is on a family tree as the daughter of Horace Murdock and Louisa Roffe.
When did your Percy and Sarah go to Australia homer46?
I don't think Sarah and Maria can be sisters unless they were born very close together (1878 given for both) which is why I wonder if you have them as little girls together with the same parents?
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Don't see a birth for Sarah Elizabeth 1878 - there is a Sarah M 1878 St Geo mothers name Green but I don't see a Maria :-\
Yep totally ???
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hi everyone
could milliepedes "SARAH M" be the maria sarah we are looking for. i have maria sarah as being born 1878 at st georges in the east and her mother as elizabeth roffey nee green.
i have eliza sarah roffey as being born 1882 at st georges
maria is on the 1881 census age 3 and eliza is on the 1891 age 9 born wapping
percy and eliza roffey arrived in perth in 1907 with son jack.
winifred may is the daughter of horace and louisa murdock
i can only say again my original info came from the freebmd.org.uk website
regards homer46
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The M was to denote the March quarter, I should have made that clearer sorry.
So the family tree with Sarah Elizabeth born 1878 is incorrect and she was born 1882 as Eliza Sarah.
It's funny Maria has a middle name Sarah as well, must have really liked the name.
Can only reiterate that the two marriage certificates for Percy will solve the mystery because with less than a year gap between marriages the logical conclusion is his first wife died - but where is her death and when?
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To clarify birth Eliza Roffey (no middle name) March quarter 1882 mothers name Green.
Birth Sarah Roffey (no middle name) March quarter 1878 mothers name Green.
With Louisa Roffey born in between March quarter 1880 mothers name Green.
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I don't know which bride it was but family tree has Percy marrying in Perth Australia in 1914 - not in England in 1905 or 1906.
Again birth details for the bride are 1878 not 1882 so I really can't work out who she was. Have the names and ages been amalgamated into one person.
I wish the marriages were online so could see what they say. If you send for them please let us know what they say homer46 would love to find out.
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Checked all the online parish registers for West Ham registration district. Neither marriage there. Maybe it was registry office or catholic?
Sep 1906 W Ham 4a 428
Percy George Murdock, Sarah Elizabeth Roffey, 2 others
Sep 1906 W Ham 4a 587
Robert Eastwood, Florence Wood
married 7 July at Woodford Bridge (St Paul)
and
George William Wix, Elizabeth Whitbread
married 14 July at Woodford Bridge (St Paul)
So Percy Murdock, who has a much lower page reference, should have married in a parish church
Does the WW1 army service record of Edward Sims, of Walthamstow, who married Mary Ann Bird, possibly on 7 Sep 1906, give a specific church?
In Sep 1906, West Ham, that marriage has the reference 4a 426, so it might give a clue as to the location for Percy's just two pages later.
John
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http://slwa.wa.gov.au/pdf/mn/mn1501_2000/mn1854.pdf
Regarding son Jack Percival
The family appears to have arrived in Fremantle on the RMS Ophir
Jack Percival was born on 11.04.1907 and baptised on 19.05.1907 at St Mary The Virgin, Walthamstow. Parents Percy George and Sarah Elizabeth, he was a fish salesman and the lived at 47 Clarendon Road.
His parents were married at the same church on 15.09.1906, both were single, he 25 and she 28. A witness was an Eliza Roffey.
Sourced from https://secureweb1.essexcc.gov.uk/SeaxPAM/ViewSecureImage.aspx?&ID=1569684&DocID=1007334
Mark
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Sourced from https://secureweb1.essexcc.gov.uk/SeaxPAM/ViewSecureImage.aspx?&ID=1569684&DocID=1007334
Can't help with the 1905 marriage, unfortunately. Probably is one from the registrar's book, not pc anyway. Brilliant site, SEAX
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hi everybody
so lets refresh again since my last post
milliepede tells us---
birth sarah roffey(no middle name) march quarter 1878 mothers name green
louisa roffey born in between march quarter mothers name green
birth eliza roffey (no middle name) march quarter 1882 mothers name green
this bit of info confuses it again--jan 29 1878 at st peters london docks, maria elizabeth roffey is baptised, parents john and eliza roffey, 28 meeting house alley. john is a coal porter.
so is sarah roffey infact maria elizabeth and is eliza roffey infact sarah elizabeth.
or are the parents confused with the names of their children, after all they will be the ones suppling the childrens names
jonw65--thanks for your input
olleym--thanks for your input--try and get a copy of jack murdocks writings from the slwa, it makes a good read if you know something about western australian history. around 3 weeks ago i met jacks daughter glenys here in perth and she told some great family stories and their history on the group settlement at jardee wa.
i will now apply to get the 1905 marriage details where percy george murdock is showing with maria sarah roffey and two others. i will post the outcome
regards homer46
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His parents were married at the same church on 15.09.1906, both were single, he 25 and she 28. A witness was an Eliza Roffey.
Well that's interesting on many levels - single and witness called Eliza.
So glad you have sent for the other marriage, looking forward to (maybe) solving this mystery :)