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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: MoglieUK on Tuesday 14 March 17 13:43 GMT (UK)
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Afternoon everyone
I have for a very long time been trying to find out more about my great-grandmother Sarah Hennessey who married my great-grandfather Harry Taylor on 28th August 1897. According to the marriage certificate he was a Private in the British Army based in Victoria Barracks, Belfast and she lived at 124 Cupar Street. Her father was James Hennessey (coach builder). I would love to find out more about Sarah. The very odd thing is when she appears on the 1911 census living in London it shows her maiden name as Henderson and from New Ross, Ireland - but that doesn't make sense, her marriage certificate states its Hennessey.
Many thanks for any help you can give.
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Just been playing around with the names and counties on the Irish census, can't find any James Hennessey in Antrim at all , several in Wexford but none who seem to fit and one James Henderson in Wexford a farmer and lots in Belfast but none that fits.....maybe you should take a look although maybe they didn't live in Ireland/N Ireland or maybe he was not alive in 1901
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It's odd - I wonder if she changed her maiden name on the 1911 census to Henderson (despite it clearly stating Hennessey on her wedding certificate) to avoid trouble in London. If she lived in Cupar Street with her family, I'm assuming that was a Protestant area and wouldn't have been an problem her marrying a British soldier?
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Just looked again at the 1911 census, it states she was born in New Ross, Wexford in 1911 she was 32, which puts her DOB as 1879.
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It's odd - I wonder if she changed her maiden name on the 1911 census to Henderson (despite it clearly stating Hennessey on her wedding certificate) to avoid trouble in London. If she lived in Cupar Street with her family, I'm assuming that was a Protestant area and wouldn't have been an problem her marrying a British soldier?
Why do you think Cupar Street was in a Protestant area? Using the 1901 census and searching for any occupants of Cupar Street there are 613 results- subtracting R.C. inhabitants there are 247 other religions which means 366 Catholics listed.
Remember that the marriage gives the residence of bride (and groom) at the time of the marriage which may not be where they were born or where their family lived.
I can't see any reason yet why she couldn't have been born outside Belfast. Have you found her in 1901 census to compare place of birth?
Is she not listed as Taylor (her married name) in 1911? Does the number of years listed agree with the marriage year? Were there any children from the marriage? (their birth certificates will list her maiden name)
Added: New topic here-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=767362.0;topicseen
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Clearly Hennessey in the birth registration for Harry born in 1898:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02076/1792420.pdf
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Where was she in 1901?
Cupar St back in 1897 without researching I would think it was mixed ( but do check) Taking two points of Protestant/Catholic being Shakhill/Falls then it is the middle of the two of them.
However I would not assume both were Protestant (or Catholic) as there were many mixed faith marriages then as now and maybe even more likely it was mixed if they went to the mainland. People in love really put religion aside. The first marriage I went to as a little girl in NI was to a mixed marriage in the middle of the troubles I had no clue it was a mixed marriage no one said anything to me but I do remember ( the strange dust visit)to the brides parents home, leaving the house and going to a different town and meeting up with her family but EVERYONE joined together as one big family in church and the reception and it was only years later that some of those things clicked for me and they left to go on honeymoon to Canada (and stayed) so their immigration was clearly already arranged
St Anns in Belfast... St Anns Cathedral (Church of Ireland) and St Anns Kingsway, Finaghy (Catholic) I am assuming the Cathedral as it is closer and also has a history of religious partnership too
I wonder if she changed her maiden name on the 1911 census to Henderson
The census is a secondary record soooo although the 1911 was written by the head of house/signed, so did he sign it or she, was it a mistake on his part, there was no ( logical) reason to change it. Also have you looked at the image/actual census or just a transcription as the transcription may be wrong or it is scribbled and 'looks like' another name
Have you found James her father on the Irish census? I couldn't see him but you have ( hopefully) more info like his age etc.
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Clearly Hennessey in the birth registration for Harry born in 1898:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02076/1792420.pdf
Possible lead further to above, the place of birth and residence of father in the 1898 birth registration was 28 Ballyclare Street, the 1899 Belfast street directory on the PRONI website shows the following for Ballyclare Street:
28 Hennisey, Patk., coachsmith
There is a coachsmith called Patrick Hennessy living in Dublin in the 1901 census, however his birthplace is shown as Co. Wexford and the younger children born in Belfast:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Royal_Exchange/William_Street/1340448/
Edited to add: This couple are coming back as Patrick Hennessey and Mary Sweetman, eg. look at the following birth registration (likewise result for the other Belfast born children):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02054/1785834.pdf
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Birth for Timothy Henessey in Belfast (1892)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02350/1878539.pdf
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Patrick Hennessey, coach builder, in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Carrick_on_Suir__Urban_/Oven_Lane/839940
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Daughter Sarah to Patrick Hennessey and Mary Sweetman in 1876, so marriage window potentially pushing back:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGD7-SNG
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03032/2111587.pdf
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Thank you all for such wonderful help.
I'm trying to attach the 1897 marriage certificate for Harry and Sarah. I'm also attaching the birth certificate of their child Victor Edward (my grandfather) born in 1902 - this is where I saw the mention of her name being Henderson, but the marriage certificate clearly states Hennessey. Do you think that is odd. I'm optimistic that I'm on the right track, but you may have a different view?
On the 1911 census (which I'm struggling to find at the moment) it shows her birth place as New Ross, Ireland.
Image removed
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marriage certificate for Harry & Sarah 1897
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You are only allowed to post a small portion of the certificates for deciphering purposes.
Are you going by a transcription of the 1911 census record or have you seen the scanned image?
The LDS index to 1911 census gives her name as TAYLOR but I haven't seen the original.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWR4-695
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Witnesses to marriage were Edward H. Hughes & Alice Hughes. Wonder if this is the same Alice Hughes (address Cupar St.)-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Cupar_Street/979762
Possible marriage but groom is Thomas Hughes-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10505/5826159.pdf
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Clearly Hennessey in the birth registration for Harry born in 1898:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02076/1792420.pdf
Son Harry died after a few weeks:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05823/4648884.pdf
Edited to add: And buried in public ground of Belfast City Cemetery:
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7735.8386
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Son Henry born in August 1900 in Bray, Co. Wicklow:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01987/1764961.pdf
Again clearly Hennessey (likewise in the baptismal record I've seen), it's possible that 'Henderson' was simply a one-off error.
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Agree with gaffy that 'Henderson' probably just an error- perhaps English registrar didn't understand Sarah's accent when she registered Victor's birth. (if you mumble Hennessey it does sound a bit like Henderson)
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... Son Henry born in August 1900 in Bray, Co. Wicklow:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01987/1764961.pdf ...
Died after a few weeks as well, sad:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05754/4625355.pdf
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... Son Henry born in August 1900 in Bray, Co. Wicklow:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01987/1764961.pdf ...
Another lead, look at the informant - Mary Hennessey Grandmother.
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Thanks - again!
On the actual 1911 census (I have it on Ancestry but need to rejoin to get access to it!) - I think they had two girls (Eileen and Jessie) and one boy (my grandfather Victor) surviving and living in Deptford and two children deceased.
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I've found out that Harry Taylor's father, also Harry was a Chief Engineer in the Royal Navy and went through a court martial (August 1891) in Queenstown Harbour, Ireland for going AWOL for 22 hours in Sheerness (where his family lived) he was eventually discharged in 1893.
On the marriage certificate of Harry Taylor (Jnr) and Sarah Hennessey, Harry Taylor (Chief Engineer, RN) appears as Chief Engineer, RIC... I always thought that meant he was in the Royal Irish Constabulary - but never been able to find a trace for that. Can anyway help with pointing me in the right direction. I did pay a researcher at Kew to find his service record, which he did... but nothing obviously after 1893 when he is discharged. I don't even know when and where he died.
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You are only allowed to post a small portion of the certificates for deciphering purposes.
Are you going by a transcription of the 1911 census record or have you seen the scanned image?
The LDS index to 1911 census gives her name as TAYLOR but I haven't seen the original.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWR4-695
I'm going by the scanned image of the 1911 census gives her name as TAYLOR born in New Ross, Ireland.
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I'm going by the scanned image of the 1911 census gives her name as TAYLOR born in New Ross, Ireland.
This is the bit that I don't understand-
I would love to find out more about Sarah. The very odd thing is when she appears on the 1911 census living in London it shows her maiden name as Henderson and from New Ross, Ireland - but that doesn't make sense, her marriage certificate states its Hennessey.
and
It's odd - I wonder if she changed her maiden name on the 1911 census to Henderson (despite it clearly stating Hennessey on her wedding certificate) to avoid trouble in London. If she lived in Cupar Street with her family, I'm assuming that was a Protestant area and wouldn't have been an problem her marrying a British soldier?
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yes sorry - my mistake the only time I've seen Henderson is on the birth certificate for my grandfather in 1902. It shows her as Sarah Taylor (formerly Henderson) its the only time I've seen Henderson - every other document is Hennessey.
This is definitely my grandfather - right name and DOB:-
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Hello Moglie,
If you save your images as .jpeg file instead of a .pdf file the member will be able to instantly see your image with having to download and then open the image ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Thanks Sarah - bit new to all this ;D
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Well I've found the family Harry & Sarah Taylor (nee Hennessy) in London and I'm really upset... they were admitted into the Woolwich Workhouse on 24th January 1912 (destitute & ill) both parents and children Victor (my grandfather) aged 10 and two infant sisters (Jesse & Eileen)... I'm not going to tell my dad ! :(
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If both parents were ill, had little or no money and no relatives nearby then going into the workhouse was probably their only option at the time. Have you found death certificates for the parents yet? Your grandfather obviously survived but what about his 2 sisters?
It's up to you to decide what you'll tell to your father but we often come across sad things when digging into our families.
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Indeed, its tough to think of my grandfather as a little boy in a workhouse, but I guess those were the realities of the country at that time. I can not find Harry & Sarah anywhere on the 1901 census (either in Ireland or England) and after the workhouse documents for 1912, I can't find either of them nor the two little girls (Jessie(Jesse) or Eileen) after 1912. Can you suggest you anything?
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Really, really difficult with such a common surname as Taylor :-\
Have you tried to see about getting details on the family from Workhouse records? others will know far more about English workhouse records than I do but this site might be of interest- link to records at bottom of page-
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Woolwich/
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Exactly - nearly as bad as Smith! Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.