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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mikebrunger on Wednesday 15 March 17 22:29 GMT (UK)
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My Gt.Grandfather Charles Ernest Short was born in Beddington, Surrey on March 27th 1857 to parents John & Judith Short. He married Emily Ann Gator in 1887. Researching through the UK census I cannot locate Charles in the 1861 census but can in subsequent ones. His parents are in Beddington, Surrey in 1861 but no sign of any children.There are two other children, Maria and John, who should be on the census but cannot locate them either. The whole family seems to have never drifted away from Wallington or Beddington in Surrey. Can anyone offer any suggestions please?
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There are missing pages in all censuses but 1861 has suffered most.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/census-records/ read number 8
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Funny to have the parents alone with no children especially the young ones.
Looking at the 1861 the parents are at the bottom of the last page (12) in district one. I was thinking the children would be listed over the page but can't turn the page.
I suspect they were at home and wherever the next page is they may be listed - would it be district two page one?
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No not that simple but the first page in district one has 2 unattended sons and 1 unattended granddaughter at the top of the page!
John 9
Thomas 3
Ellen Hurt (but it could be Short) 2
Unfortunately not the names you wanted :(
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Hi
District 1 page numbering runs . . . . .
page no page no
displayed actual(printed)
1 1? (hand-written) obviously not the first page
2 ? missing
3 ? missing
4 10
5 11
6 12
7 13
8 14
9 ? missing
10 16
11 ? missing
12 18
18 is obviously not the last
Ray
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Thank you to everyone who replied. It all makes sense and also explains why some other ancestors have mysteriously 'disappeared' from sight for a while.
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Just one other point: if the family was complete as shown on page 18 there would be two diagonal strokes to the left of Judith's name. The fact that there isn't anything indicates that the family must have continued on the next page.....which isn't there :-\
Looks like another casualty of the 1861 census missing pages and pieces.
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. . . . . although there is a blank line after Judith.
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. . . . . although there is a blank line after Judith.
True, but there is also a blank line at the bottom of many of the preceding pages.
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An aside . . . . .
1851 John Short's mother Sarah "Phisic Gardener of 20 acres" although that could relate to John's father John.
Later, John listed as "Herb Grower"
1851 Judith Hoare living at home with mother Judith "Grocer"
1851 John and Judith living 8 dwellings apart Hollow Road, Beddington.
They married 1852?
So he married "the girl next door"? [ Magic ]
AND
Sold ( magic ) herbs to her mother? [ Magic ]
HO107 1602 27 p5+p6
Ray
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Hi,
Here is a link that tells that definitely census pages of Beddington are missing in 1861,
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3098487
Regards,
Daisy
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That confirm it - John & Judith are on page 18 in Enumeration District 1. Page 19 of ED 1 is one of those which are missing :-X
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Thanks to all for your help. I now have one other missing ancestor but this time from the 1871 census.
Alfred Brunger, baptised in Boughton-under-Blean, Kent in 1836. Parents James & Susan. Married Sophia Brown in 1855. I can find Sophia and children in 1871 census but no sign of Alfred. I notice on the census that there is no HEAD entry prior to Sophia's entry as Wife. Does this suggest Alfred was there but was omitted from the census by mistake? I think he died n 1876 so it is a mystery that he is not found on any 1871 census.
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Hi,
Where do you Alfred died in 1876? I just can't find it.
I can see a marriage of his daughter Ellen in 1876 where it says that Alfred Snr is deceased but the marriage of Alice Sophia in 1883 gives Alfred's occupation as F?reman and in 1888 Edward's marriage gives Alfred's occupation as platelayer, neither mention that he is deceased.
I have previously seen cases where it said that the father was deceased on a marriage cert. when he wasn't and those that don't mention the father is deceased when he is ::)
Sophia says that she is a widow in 1881 but there is a possibility that this is wrong and that Alfred had left the family for any number of reasons, or that Sophia had left Alfred.
Regards,
Daisy
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Don't know how common the name Brunger is but there's a report in the Kentish Chronicle of 22 Oct 1859 of AN Alfred Brunger labourer aged 24 [so age about right] being imprisoned for 12 months after being found guilty at the East Kent Assizes of criminally assaulting a Mary Tong at Herne Hill. Perhaps he had other spells 'inside' later?
ADDED: Alfred is a railway labourer in 1861 & obviously platelayer later; maybe he was doing a night shift so wasn't actually in the house during the night of the 1871 census?
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Im making assumptions that he died sometime between 1876 and 1881 but that is based on the marriage record of Ellen to Edward Martin in 1876 and the 1881 census. I just found it odd that the 1871 census would record Sophia Brunger, WIFE but no corresponding HEAD like all other census records I have seen. Alfred Brunger seems to be a common name and Brunger is very common in Kent. Just seems odd that there is no record of him anywhere in the 1871. Even if he was working a night shift would he not be recorded on the census?
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Even if he was working a night shift would he not be recorded on the census?
As far as I know, the census forms were distributed to households & institutions to record who spent the night there; not sure how that could work for outside workers...places of employment such as offices were not included again as far as I know.