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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: polidor on Friday 17 March 17 22:09 GMT (UK)
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Samuel Copperwheat b 1810-- d 1860
cousin John Copperwheat b 1819 -- d 1860
Thought i'd send for a death cert for one or other of them and found that both men had the same page and reference numbers.
Shouldn't each one have their own personal page and ref. numbers or am i missing an obvious reason for the duplication or just having a 'senior moment' ::) poli
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No, it's not a page per person. If you look at FreeBMD you will see that 10 deaths were registered with those reference details. It means the deaths were registered close in time to one another.
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It is correct that they have the same numbers as they date from a time when several records would be on the same page. The best way to see it if you look at actual marriage records on a site like Ancestry and you will see there are four (sometimes more) on a page
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Thank you both for replying. Seems obvious now that you have explained the reason. I should have guessed there was a good reason---
:-[ poli
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No, it's not a page per person. If you look at FreeBMD you will see that 10 deaths were registered with those reference details. It means the deaths were registered close in time to one another.
Of course another possibility is a simple transcription error because of the repeated surname; unlikely but not impossible. You should check the reference on the recently revamped GRO website
EDIT - just done it: same reference, one aged 40, the other 50.
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Oh dear..... looks like a catastrophe for the family. :'(
Were they mariners? Or was some awful epidemic sweeping through their area?
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Were they mariners? Or was some awful epidemic sweeping through their area?
Unlikely to be mariners, as Ampthill is a long way from the sea. Possibly rivermen I suppose. But they were apparently cousins, so not necessarily living together or even close by.
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And here are their ages, from the GRO index
COPPERWHEAT, JOHN 40
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in AMPTHILL Volume 03B Page 271
COPPERWHEAT, SAMUEL 50
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in AMPTHILL Volume 03B Page 271
Josey
WHOOPS sorry Andrew, duplicated your post :-[
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Were they mariners? Or was some awful epidemic sweeping through their area?
Unlikely to be mariners, as Ampthill is a long way from the sea. Possibly rivermen I suppose. But they were apparently cousins, so not necessarily living together or even close by.
But doesn't the register suggest the deaths were close together?
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Samuel was buried at Marston Moretaine 10 January 1860
John was buried at Marston Moretaine 22 January 1860
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Really need to know the causes of deaths.
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Really need to know the causes of deaths.
I can't see an online newspaper report so it may have to be the death certificates.
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Am keen to find out if their deaths so close to each other was coincidence or not so attempted to send for a D cert. I haven't used the GRO for a while and find i now need an activation code.
I received one by email and the GRO rejected it ! I imagine i may get sent another one. ::)
How long has this been part of the system, does anyone know? poli.
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But doesn't the register suggest the deaths were close together?
Well, yes - in the same quarter and the same registration district, which will be several square miles. The burial dates given above were 12 days apart, which suggests to me a local epidemic of some sort.
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Well, yes - in the same quarter and the same registration district, which will be several square miles. The burial dates given above were 12 days apart, which suggests to me a local epidemic of some sort.
If it was a local epidemic then I would have thought there would have been probably a couple of pages between them given the burial dates.
I would be ordering one to see what it says before ordering the second in case the first solves the mystery.
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Me too.
Perhaps a small epidemic, as an interesting accident probably would have been reported in the local paper.
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If it was a local epidemic then I would have thought there would have been probably a couple of pages between them given the burial dates.
That will depend on how the original register was compiled, just as the marriage registers we see are not the very first record, but usually fair copies maybe written up weekly or on some regular basis. I don't think every reported death would be entered at the moment it came in? That being so, each batch may be entered alphabetically, so these cousins would naturally appear together.
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I have just sent for a D cert for John Copperwheat. Will let you know what it says.
poli.
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I am fascinated by this surname. Just for interest I looked at the 30 deaths for 1850-1869 - about half of them are recorded in Ampthill, two others are in Winslow and several more are in the London area. I suspect the name is a variant of Copperthwaite, of which there are two recorded alongside the two cousins we are discussing here. Maybe not surprisingly the C'thwaites come from the north of England.
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What information has been gleaned from the available census returns for these two cousins?
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In both the 41 and 51 census Samuel b Blunham 1810 is down as an Ag Lab.
In the 41 census John b Marston 1819 is down as an Ag Lab but in St Mary Infirmary.
In the 51 census John has the following written for occupation which i can't decipher !
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Dealer in Sheepskins.
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Here is a copy of J.Copperwheats D cert.
I note that he is down as a 'butcher'. In the 1851 census avm 228 says he thinks his occupation is
dealer in Sheepskins but he could well have switched trades.
I have no idea who Sophia Fells is, could be a neighbour. I am looking into that. Hope i've got the correct John Copperwheat! poli
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Have you seen this?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/boards/surnames.copperwheat/1.1/mb.ashx
Perhaps it might help?
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1861 living Marston
Ambrose and Sophia Fells, just a thought
Louisa Maud