RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: suepearce on Sunday 19 March 17 11:35 GMT (UK)
-
Can anyone assist me with a lookup?
I am looking for the baptisms of 4 of the children of JOHN HUTTON oo ELIZABETH NORRIS.
FAMILYSEARCH gives the same baptism date for all 4, namely Adam, Caroline, Henry and Arthur, the date being 27 March 1826.
Adam HUTTON was one of the Byrne Settlers who came to the Natal Colony, South Africa in 1850. He was a passenger on the ill fated Minerva which drifted onto the rocks and was wrecked in Durban harbour - with no loss of life. He is the direct ancestor of my soon to arrive Grandchild :). Adam's brother Henry James Cooper Hutton also came out that year, but on another ship. Adams son John settled in the Creighton District on the farm he named Bedford. The Hutton family still farm there.
Thanks
Sue (Johannesburg)
-
What information are you after :-\
Some earlier Aspley Guise records are on freereg
-
I was about to ask the same question. It was a multiple Baptism so unlikely to have exact birth dates for Individual Children.
1841 John/Elizabeth are under Houlton, no Children at Home.
FreeREG has a John Hutton 1796 to James/Elizabeth, James a Farmer
-
Sue
It's not unknown for a group of children from the same family to be baptised on the same day.
Your original post did not mention birth dates?
Ray
-
I don't have these birth dates (yet) unfortunately. I have seen group baptisms but I just thought it strange as two other children were baptised before and after this date - Henry James
Cooper 28 Sept 1824 (born 4 Sept 1824) and Elizabeth Emma 28 August 1829. I don't have the date of the parents marriage either.
I'll take a look at FreeReg - thanks for that.
Sue
-
The BFHS transcripts have the same date for all 4 children and the only other detail is that John is a miller.
There's 2 other baptisms for parents John and Elizabeth, where John is listed as a farmer:
20/09/1824 Henry James Cooper HUTTON
28/08/1829 Elizabeth Emma HUTTON
Are you sure this isn't 2 different couples? It seems a bit odd to me that if they were the same couple that they'd have another son named Henry, baptised in 1826, when you believe Henry James Cooper later emigrated to South Africa.
EDIT: It's possible they could have re-baptised Henry, although being a small church you expect someone would have raised issue with this.
-
1851 we have;
Robert Bailey, 32
Caroline Bailey, 30
John Bailey, 3
Frederick R Bailey, 1mth
Lucy Fairey, 17
Arthur Hutton, 24, Lodger, born Aspley, Bedfordshire****
So born c 1827
Birth Reg;
BAILEY, FREDERICK ROBERT, Mothers maiden name HUTTON *****
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in WOBURN UNION Volume 06 Page 151
So Caroline Hutton born c 1821
-
I think 2 different couples also
-
NAME: John Hutton
SPOUSE: Elizabeth Norris
MARRIAGE: 14 Jan 1824 - Ridgmont,Bedford,England
So something doesnt add up here.
-
There's 2 possible marriages between a 'John Hutton' and 'Elizabeth':
29/05/1817 Aspley Guise - John Hutton & Elizabeth Cripps (of Cranfield)
by license; wit: Maria Cripps, John Assbee
1824 Ridgemont - John Hutton & Elizabeth Norris; lic
[I don't have access to the above records so it's inferred from the surname index and the info Sue has provided]
It may be unrelated but an Elizabeth Norris was a marriage witness in 1818:
11/07/181 Aspley Guise - Michael Wells & Mary Betts
by license
-
Thanks...
I am early in this line of research as this weekend, at the Hutton Farm in Creighton I was shown an incredible book called "William Smith, a Natal Settler of 1850". William Smith, from Bedale Yorkshire, 's granddaughter married Adam Hutton's son John. The book was researched and written by one of the Smith descendants and copies were distributed to the various the families. Beautifully typed and illustrated.
I can see I need to do more work. For a start I will order the FHL film for Aspley Guise to view here in Johannesburg.
There could indeed be two couples, though I only found one John baptised 1796 (son of Joseph oo Elizabeth). An earlier John died soon after birth in 1791.
All the input here has been a great help. Much appreciated - thank you.
Sue
As I was typing more help came in :) ... I'll take a look......
-
I got the name Norris from this Rootschat thread from 2010:
"I have been researching HJC Hutton as well, he is my great great grandfather. As far as I can tell he was born in 1824 son of John Hutton and Elizabeth Norris of Aspley Guise in the UK. He arrived in South Africa on the 18th March 1850 on the Edward. He married Mary Dickens neice of Charles who is buried in the Commercial Road cemetery in Pietermaritzburg. Henry apparently died in Pretoria but I have no details of his gravesite."
-
Two couples or even two marriages??
-
Anything is possible.
Joseph HUTTON Married Elizabeth COOPER 30 May 1787. St Botolph, Aspley Guise
(FreeREG)
The 1796 Baptism for John I mentioned on FreeREG may be mistranscribed. All other Children have Parents as Joseph/Elizabeth
-
I am totally confused now;
1841 Census
Wavendon, Buckinghamshire
Susanna Hutton, 40, Farmer, born in County
Mary Hutton, 30
Fredrick Hutton, 22
Henry Hutton, 20
ADAM Hutton, 16*****
Arthur Hutton, 14
All others NOT born in County
-
Definitely a Waverton, Bucks connection somewhere, as the Neice/Nephew of Caroline are born there;
1861 Census
Robert Bailey, 41
Caroline Bailey, 38
John Bailey, 12
Fredk Robt Bailey, 10
Betsey Sarah Bailey, 6
Caroline Bailey, 5
Walter Bailey, 1
Elizth Hutton, 11****
Wm Hutton, 9****
-
Goodness - very interesting.
Who are the parents of Elizabeth and William Hutton I wonder.
Thanks for this.
-
Parents seem to be Henry Hutton oo ? Rulton. Elizabeth b 1850 and William Henry b 1852, both in Newport Pagnell, Bucks. William baptised 24 June 1853 in Wavendon. Newport Pagnell only 8 miles north of Aspley Guise.
-
It looks like you're both right about the John's baptised in 1791 and 1796, in that the first died and the second was the son of Joseph. It looks like Joseph re-married in 1807 after his wife Elizabeth died.
As to the couple(s) John and Elizabeth, there's at least one in 1841 and 1851 census' and it looks like that Elizabeth died in 1851 and was buried in Ridgmont. There's a possible baptism of Elizabeth Norris in Ridgmont in 1801, which would tally with the other records. The GRO indexes have another, older Elizabeth Hutton dying in 1845 but it's not obvious who she is. There's no obvious death records for John Hutton either.
Aspley Guise parish records:
30 May 1787 Marriage - Jos Hutton & Eliz Cooper; botp; lic
20 Mar 1788 Baptism - Sar; dau. of Jos & Eliz; farmr
14 May 1788 Burial - Sarah Hutton; dau of Joseph (farmr) & Elizabeth
29 Dec 1789 Baptism - Sar Hutton; dau. of Jos & Eliz; farmr
19 Mar 1790 Burial - Sarah Hutton; dau. of Joseph (farmr) & Elizabeth
06 Apr 1791 Baptism - Jn Hutton; son of Jos & Eliz; farmer
20 May 1791 Burial - John Hutton; son of Joseph (farmer) & Elizabeth
10 May 1792 Baptism - Eliz Hutton; dau. of Jos & Eliz; farmer
11 Jan 1796 Baptism - Jn Hutton; son of Jos & Eliz; farmr
05 Aug 1803 Burial - Elizabeth Hutton; wife of Joseph (farmer)
02 Apr 1807 Marriage - Jos Hutton (wid) & Sar Coleman (sp); botp
11 Nov 1807 Burial - Elizabeth Hutton; dau. of Joseph (farmer)
06 Sep 1821 Burial - Joseph Hutton; 68
05 Aug 1829 Burial - Sarah Hutton; 60
Ridgmont parish records:
27 Sep 1801 Baptism - Elizabeth Norris; dau. of Roger & Elizabeth
14 Jan 1824 Marriage - John Hutton & Elizabeth Norris
12 Sep 1851 Burial - Elizabeth Hutton; age 50; of Aspley
GRO BMDs references:
1845 Q2 Death - Elizabeth Hutton 51 (est b1794) Woburn 06 82
1851 Q3 Death - Elizabeth Hutton 50 (est b1801) Woburn 06 72
Census records:
1841 Census - Aspley Guise
John Hutton 45 (est b1796); Bedfordshire; Farmer
Elizabeth Hutton; Bedfordshire
Ref HO107; Piece 5; Book 1; Folio 6; Page 6;
Writing very faint; Elizabeth's age illegible.
1851 Census - 95 East Street, Aspley Guise
John Hutton; 56 (est b1795); farmer (70 acres)
Elizabeth Hutton; 50 (est b1801); farmer's wife
Ref HO107; Piece 1755; Folio 52; Page 23;
Birth place recorded as N.K. for both John and Elizabeth
And just to make it more confusing, who's this chap? Could he be the widower of Elizabeth? He's too young though but maybe he fudged his age as his new wife was quite a bit younger....
1861 Census - White House, London Colney, Hertfordshire
John Hutton; Head 55 (est b1806); Aspley Guise, Bedfordshire; Licensed Victualer
Mary A Hutton; Wife 23 (est b1838); Aspley Guise, Bedfordshire
John E Hutton; Son 1m (b1861); London Colney, Hertfordshire
Sarah E Ellis; Daughter In Law 4 (est b1857); Aspley Guise
George Rossin; Traveller; unmarried; 45, birthplace unknown; Dealer In Cattle
Ref RG09; Piece 829; Folio 79; Page 14;
GRO BMD references:
1861 Q1 Marriage - John Hutton & Mary Ann Ellis; Edmonton 3a 129
1861 Q1 Birth - John Ellis Hutton (mmn: Ellis); St Albans 3a 287
Marriage register states John was a widower aged 55 and his father was Joseph Hutton, a farmer.
-
Curiosity got the better of me again...
By 1871 it looks like Mary Ann Hutton (nee Ellis) had remarried to Joseph Dickinson.
1871 Census - Aldenham, Watford, Hertfordshire
Joseph and Mary Ann and Mary Ann's children, Sarah and John, plus some of Joseph's children.
Ref RG10; Piece 1380; Folio 7; Page 6;
GRO BMD registrations:
1863 Q1 Death - John Hutton 67 (est b1796) Barnet 03a 81
1864 Q4 Marriage - Mary Ann Hutton & Joseph Dickinson St Albans 3a 506
So is that death in 1863 John, with his real age?
Colney Heath parish records:
29 Mar 1863 Baptism - John Ellis Hutton; son of John and Mary Anne; farmer; of Colney Heath
02 Feb 1863 Burial - John Hutton; age 67; of Colney Heath
-
Dear "Cuffie81"
Thank you kindly for your generous input. You have helped me enormously.
I have to pack up my laptop now but will look properly when I get back to Johannesburg tomorrow.
Thanks also to the rest of you for your help:)
Rgds
Sue
-
Following up trish's reference to Robert and Caroline Bailey they are often living next door to Frederick Hutton and his wife Ann, and Frederick is a master bricklayer. And Arthur Hutton, a lodger with Robert and Caroline on the 1851 census, was a bricklayer. Are Caroline, Arthur and Frederick siblings? Frederick's age fluctuates a bit but seems to be about 1820 (give or take a few years).
So looking at the various couples, and Caroline's niece and nephew, we get some possible GRO references. Obviously you'd need to look into it the further to double check the marriages are as they seem. Marriage certificates would determine whether or not these Huttons are the children of John (the miller).
GRO BMDs references:
1846 Q3 Marriage - Robert Bailey & Caroline Hutton; Newport Pagnell 5 585
1848 Q2 Birth - John Bailey (mmn: Hutton); Woburn 06 118
1851 Q1 Birth - Frederick Robert Bailey (mmn: Hutton); Woburn 06 151
1854 Q2 Birth - Betsy Sarah Bailey (mmn: Hutton); Woburn 03b 369
1856 Q1 Birth - Caroline Bailey (mmn: Hutton); Woburn 03b 386
1859 Q4 Birth - Walter Bailey (mmn: Hutton); Woburn 03b 367
1849 Q2 Marriage - Frederick Hutton & Ann Samwell; Woburn 6 177
1851 Q1 Birth - Caroline Hutton (mmn: Samwell); Woburn 06 145
1853 Q1 Birth - Frederick Hutton (mmn: Samwell); Woburn 03b 373
1855 Q3 Birth - John Hutton (mmn: Samwel); Woburn 03b 355
1857 Q3 Birth - Fanny Edith Hutton (mmn: Samuel); Woburn 03b 349
1861 Q2 Birth - Laura Annie Hutton (mmn: Samwell); Woburn 03b 391
1864 Q2 Birth - Henry Arthur Hutton (mmn: Samwell); Woburn 03b 382
1849 Q4 Marriage - Henry Hutton & Ruth Pettitt; Wellingborough 15 872
1850 Q2 Birth - Elizabeth Hutton (mmn: Pettit); Newport Pagnell 06 410
1852 Q3 Birth - William Henry Hutton (mmn: Pettit); Newport Pagnell 03a 403
1854 Q1 Birth - John Hutton (mmn: Pettitt); Wellingborough 03b 132
1856 Q2 Birth - Emma Jane Hutton (mmn: Pettitt); Wellingborough 03b 144
1851 Census - Wavendon
Henery Hutton; Head 30 (est b1821); Aspley; Farmer
Ruth Hutton; Wife 21 (est b1830); Wellingborough
Elizh Hutton; Daughter ?m (est b1851); Wavendon
James Hutton; Visitor 55 (est b1796); Aspley
John Pain; Servant 14 (est b1837); Wavendon; Labourer
Emily Garner; Servant 16 (est b1835); Wavendon; Servant
Ref HO107; Piece 1723; Folio 211; Page 19;
Also, on the 1861 census Robert Bailey is listed as a publican of Weathercock Inn, which seems to have a long connection to Huttons...
The Weathercock Inn
http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/wsc/docs/Weathercock.html
The Weathercock Public House Aspley Guise
http://bedsarchives.bedford.gov.uk/CommunityArchives/AspleyGuise/TheWeathercockAspleyGuise.aspx
-
FREDERICK Hutton
Birth Date 1819
Age 30
Spouse's Name Ann Samwell
Spouse's Birth Date 1825
Spouse's Age 24
Event Date 27 May 1849
Event Place Salford,Bedford,England
Father's Name JOHN Hutton
Spouse's Father's Name John Samwell
-
Bedfordshire archives have various documents and references to Huttons in Aspley Guise. Below are a few pertinent ones which would imply Henry James Cooper Hutton is not the brother of the Huttons baptised in 1826.
Reference: ABM1787/32a; Date free text: 29th May 1787
Allegation; Joseph Hutton of Aspley Guise a batchelor aged 21 years and upwards and Elizabeth Cooper of Aspley Guise aged 20 years to be married at Aspley Guise, with the consent of her guardians. Signed Joseph Hutton before William Aveling
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110543104
Reference: ABM1787/32b; Date free text: 29th May 1787
Bond; Joseph Hutton of Aspley Guise to marry Elizabeth Cooper of Aspley Guise. Joseph Hutton and Henry Cooper both yeoman of Aspley Guise bound for £200. Signed Joseph Hutton, Henry Cooper before William Aveling
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110543116
Reference: R6/2/8/15; Date free text: 14 Sep 1866
Declaration of George Whitman of Aspley Guise that:
- he was 44 years old;
- he knew John, father of Henry James Cooper Hutton;
- John Hutton was married twice, first to Elizabeth Norris of Ridgmont in Jan 1824 and second in May 1861 to Mary Ann Ellis of Aspley Guise;
- Henry James Cooper Hutton was born in 1824, only child of John and Elizabeth Hutton;
- John Hutton died in Feb 1863
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085138
Reference: R6/2/8/14; Date free text: 20 Jan 1866
Letter of Attorney in which Henry James Cooper Hutton, formerly of Aspley Guise, now of Nyn House, Upper Um Romas, Port Natal, South Africa nominated John Thomas Green of Woburn, gentleman as his attorney in the sale of his land in Aspley Guise.
Witnessed by John Milne and Henry H.Bird of Pietermaritzberg, Natal, South Africa, clerks
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085137
Reference: WL85; Date free text: 1875
Abstract of Title of Joseph Allen Piggott to freehold messuage in Aspley Guise; No.29 in Lot 1; abstracted by Sharman & Smail of Bedford for purchaser and T.W.& J.Pearse for vendor
See Beds. archive page for full text, it references Joseph Hutton, John Hutton and his wife Elizabeth and his son Henry James Cooper Hutton.
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110001462
-
Back home in Johannesvburg tofind some more generous help. Thank you once again. Also, the Huttons descendants at Valhalla and Bedford farms, Creighton, are amazed and very appreciative of the info!
Info from Cuffie: "Reference: R6/2/8/14; Date free text: 20 Jan 1866
Letter of Attorney in which Henry James Cooper Hutton, formerly of Aspley Guise, now of Nyn House, Upper Um Romas, Port Natal, South Africa nominated John Thomas Green of Woburn, gentleman as his attorney in the sale of his land in Aspley Guise."
The name is Umkomaas,which was/is small town/village really, on the South Coast of the Natal Colony. Ironically my Mothers grandparents were married there in 1899!
I'll start putting all this together....there must be some connection between Henry James Cooper Hutton and Adam Hutton......
Sue
-
I have spent many happy hours going through all the information received. Thanks. Very interesting.
I did find another John Hutton baptised 28 May 1794 in Newport Pagnell, Buckingham. Mother is Fanny Hutton, no father mentioned. Illegitimate? A Fanny Hutton is born Oct 1771, Newton Pagnell, father is George Hutton. Seems Fanny marries a Luke Everett in Oct 1794, a few months after John is born.
This could be the second John Hatton? who marries Elizabeth Gripps on 29 May 1817, Aspley Guise.
There's 2 possible marriages between a 'John Hutton' and 'Elizabeth':
29/05/1817 Aspley Guise - John Hutton & Elizabeth Cripps (of Cranfield)
by license; wit: Maria Cripps, John Assbee
1824 Ridgemont - John Hutton & Elizabeth Norris; lic
[I don't have access to the above records so it's inferred from the surname index and the info Sue has provided]
One of the things I am struggling with is the 1841 Wavendon Census where siblings (all baptised same day) FREDERICK, HENRY, ADAM **** and ARTHUR HUTTON are in the house with Susannah (Farmer) and Mary Hutton. In 1841 sister CAROLINE can perhaps be found in Dunstable with 4 other young women. Caroline later marries Robert Bailey and is living in 1851 at the Weathercock Inn (the Inn in two counties!), Brother Arthur(Bricklayer) is lodging there too. Brother Frederick (bricklayer) lives down the lane with his wife Ann. ADAM has sailed for South Africa in 1850.
Adam was apparently a Blacksmith. He was also divorced from his wife Eliza Ann Freshwater in South Africa in 1879. He died in 1893.
So, back to the 1841 Census: who are Susannah and Mary??? And why are these children all here? Helping Susannah on the farm perhaps? Where are the parents?
Susannah is also mentioned in connection with the Weathercock Inn in 1829, after the death of Elizabeth Hutton, wife of Michael Hutton (her mother???) she seems to be in charge of selling the effects at the auction. Huttons resided there still till 1838.
Following up trish's reference to Robert and Caroline Bailey they are often living next door to Frederick Hutton and his wife Ann, and Frederick is a master bricklayer. And Arthur Hutton, a lodger with Robert and Caroline on the 1851 census, was a bricklayer. Are Caroline, Arthur and Frederick siblings? Frederick's age fluctuates a bit but seems to be about 1820 (give or take a few years).
So looking at the various couples, and Caroline's niece and nephew, we get some possible GRO references. Obviously you'd need to look into it the further to double check the marriages are as they seem. Marriage certificates would determine whether or not these Huttons are the children of John (the miller).
.......................................................
The Weathercock Inn
http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/wsc/docs/Weathercock.html
The Weathercock Public House Aspley Guise
http://bedsarchives.bedford.gov.uk/CommunityArchives/AspleyGuise/TheWeathercockAspleyGuise.aspx
,
Seems this Elizabeth inherited the Inn, along with her children, when her husband Michael Hutton died (date?), will dated 1808. A son James Hutton (baptised in Wavendon in 1792, parents Michael and Elizabeth Hutton is also mentioned. He could be the visitor in the 1851 Wavendon Census for Henry Hutton oo Ruth. Age a bit out but born Aspley Guise.
There is a GRO for a death of Susannah Hutton, Newport Pagnell, Q2 1844 which I will order. (These certs are posted so take while to get to me).
Hope my ramblings haven't gone too far off track. Grateful for any more comments :)
Sue
-
That 1841 census record is a puzzle. Assuming Susannah (age 40-45) isn't the mother of the others then what's her relationship to them. And how is Mary related, another sibling to the younger ones or possibly a sibling to Susannah?
One thought I had was that Susannah was actually the 'Miss Susanna Hutton' mentioned in the newspaper item in 1829 re. the death of Elizabeth.
Looking at baptism records for Michael and Elizabeth in Wavendon, they did have daughters named Susaanah and Mary, and also a son named John. But the Susannah and Mary on the 1841 census are too young be be the same ones, even accounting for the rounding down of ages on the 1841 census.
Wavendon parish records:
19 Mar 1775 Baptism - William Hutton; of Michael & Elizabeth
02 Mar 1777 Baptism - Mitchel Hutton; of Mitchel & Elizabeth
17 Dec 1780 Baptism - Elizabeth Hutton; of Michael & Elizabeth
01 May 1785 Baptism - Susannah Hutton; of Michael & Elizabeth
07 Sep 1788 Baptism - John Hutton; of Michael & Elizabeth
16 Jan 1791 Baptism - Mary Hutton; of Michael & Elizabeth
09 Dec 1792 Baptism - James Hutton; of Michael & Elizabeth
08 Jun 1794 Baptism - Francis Hutton; of Michael & Elizabeth
Records from FamilySearch/IGI.
Maybe Susannah and Mary were grandchildren of Michael and Elizabeth, rather than children. Or maybe they were spinsters and fudged their ages quite a bit on the census (but the gaps just seem too large for that).
That GRO death record for a Susannah Hutton does look interesting as it puts her at about the age of the daughter of Michael and Elizabeth, 59 (est b1785).
Something to bear in mind is that the Weathercock Inn is right on the Aspley Guise/Wavendon border, and Wavendon comes under the Newport Pagnell registration district.
The death record I posted previously for Elizabeth Hutton in 1845 would put her in a similar age range as John, the son of Michael and Elizabeth. I hadn't been able to find any other suitable Elizabeths in the area who it could be either.
1845 Q2 Elizabeth Hutton 51 (est b1794); Woburn 06 82
The info on the Weathercock Inn also mentions a mill, which may be the mill seen on later maps. John, the miller, would obviously had to work at a mill, so which one? It might be worth trying to find out what mills existed in the area.
Bedfordshire XX.15 (includes: Aspley Guise; Husborne Crawley; Wavendon; Woburn Sands)
Surveyed: 1880 to 1882
http://maps.nls.uk/view/114482550#zoom=4&lat=3501&lon=4754&layers=BT
Edit: Updated as I realised Sue had already found the 1844 GRO death record for Susannah Hutton.
-
The will of Michael Hutton is available (for £3.45) from TNA. It might give some additional clues but it'd be a bit of a long shot.
There are numerous newspaper references to the Huttons of Aspley Guise. The article about the Weathercock Inn contains quite a few but you may find some clues by trawling through the actual archives (via BNA or FindMyPast).
I did have a look for Susannah Huttons and there's 2 marriages, one in 1833 to Joseph Morris Day and another in 1837 (possibly) to John Thomas Stratford.
Susannah who married Joseph can be ruled out as she's born about 1810 and the daughter of William and Ann, and the sister of Daniel. Susannah and Joseph lived in Bedford and on the 1861 census she has nieces Rebecca and Elizabeth in the same household. Rebecca looks to be the daughter of Daniel and Elizabeth (Taylor) and the other niece, Elizabeth, I suspect is actually Rebecca's daughter (the likely GRO reference doesn't have a maiden name).
I couldn't find the Susanna who (possibly) married John Thomas Stratford, so I couldn't get an idea of her age.
I also came across someone else researching the family, and their connection seemed to be Arthur, who the say emigrated to Australia in 1852. If correct it would explain his absence after the 1851 census.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/bedford/2003-01/1042429631
There's probate for an Arthur Hutton, a bricklayer, in 1898 from Foster, Australia. No age is given so it might just be a coincidence.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JVQ8-B2F
-
Goodness - thanks again Cuffie
I'll enjoy going through all this. Till later
Rgds
Sue
-
The will of Michael Hutton is available (for £3.45) from TNA. It might give some additional clues but it'd be a bit of a long shot.
.........................................
I also came across someone else researching the family, and their connection seemed to be Arthur, who the say emigrated to Australia in 1852. If correct it would explain his absence after the 1851 census.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/bedford/2003-01/1042429631
There's probate for an Arthur Hutton, a bricklayer, in 1898 from Foster, Australia. No age is given so it might just be a coincidence.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JVQ8-B2F
Thanks Cuffie
I found Michael Huttons will on Ancestry, very interesting to have but no further info as you thought.
- Bingo for Arthur Hutton though -
Fortunately I have had to order many Victoria BDMs as my rather reprobate G Grandfather came to South Africa from there.
I have Arthur Hutton's marriage Certificate: married Margaret Wisheart in Victoria AUS, 9 Dec 1858, age 27 born Bedfordshire, father John Hutton, Mother Elizabeth Crispp.....
I was mislead for awhile by his death index in 1898 which gave father as Fredrk. The probate doc only states that no will could be found.
I will order the GROs today.
Thanks again
Sue
-
I am related to the Huttons of Aspley Guise through the Sibleys of Husborne Crawley.
It seems the lineage is Kitty Hutton who married Thomas Sibley.
Sandy
-
I put this post up in 2005. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jt4/
Maybe of help.
Sandy
-
Thank you Sandy! I'll take a look.
Sue
-
I am related to the Huttons of Aspley Guise through the Sibleys of Husborne Crawley.
It seems the lineage is Kitty Hutton who married Thomas Sibley.
Sandy
Hi again Sandy
Do you have any info on Kitty's Hutton family - siblings, parents and parents siblings at all? I am trying to establish a connection between Joseph (Kitty's brother?) and Michael Hutton oo Elizabeth, connected with the Weathercock Inn.
So many Huttons in such a small area surely must be connected!
Tks
Sue
-
Hi Sue.
You can find them on familysearch.org. :)
Have you read this about the family.
http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/wsc/docs/Weathercock.html
Sandy
-
Sue I have found a tree sent to me years ago that I have added to. I will put on the Other Bedfordshire Board as we can not attach images here.
Sandy
-
No doubt Sandy has a better idea of Henry James Cooper Hutton's tree than I do but I'll post what I think it is (with a bit of a re-cap), gleaned from the parish records and the wills in the Beds. archive.
1. Henry James Cooper Hutton
Son of John Hutton (farmer) & Elizabeth Norris, baptised 1824 Aspley Guise
2. John Hutton
John son of Joseph Hutton (farmer) & Elizabeth Cooper, baptised 1791 Husborne Crawley.
John married Elizabeth Norris 1824 Ridgmont
Elizabeth Norris daughter of Roger & Elizabeth, baptised 1801 Ridgmont.
Elizabeth died 1851, buried at Rdigmont
John married 1861 at London Colney to Mary Ann Ellis.
John died 1863 and buried at London Colney.
John and Elizabeth had children Henry James Cooper and Elizabeth Emma.
Reference: R6/2/8/20; Date free text: 11 Oct 1866
Declaration of John Green of Woburn, gentleman that:
- he knew John Hutton, late of Aspley Guise, farmer, father of Henry James Cooper Hutton of Pietermaritzberg, South Africa;
- he acted as solicitor for John Hutton from 1825 until his death;
- he had spoken to him about making a will but he believed he had never made one and had died intestate
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085143
3. Joseph Hutton
Joseph son of John Hutton and Sarah Bateman, baptised 1753 Husborne Crawley
Joseph married Elizabeth Cooper, 1787 Aspley Guise
Elizabeth died 1803, buried at Aspley Guise
Joseph married Sarah Coleman 1807 Aspley Guise
Joseph died 1821, aged 68, buried at Aspley Guise
Sarah died 1829, aged 60, buried at Aspley Guise
Joseph and Elizabeth had children Sarah (x2), John (x2) and Elizabeth.
Reference: R6/2/8/7; Date free text: 1814-1822
Will of 19 Nov 1814 of Joseph Hutton of Aspley Guise, yeoman:
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085130
Joseph names wife Sarah, names only son John and names married sisters Ann (Harmsden), Mary (Bogg) and Kitty (Sibley).
4. John Hutton
John (likely) son of Joseph Hutton and Catherine Banbury, no baptism found
John married Sarah Bateman 1752 Husborne Crawley
John died 1764, buried at Aspley Guise
Sarah died 1783, buried at Aspley Guise (recorded as widow)
John and Sarah had children Joseph, Ann, Mary, Thomas and Kitty (first 3 baptised at Husborne Crawley and last 2 at Aspley Guise).
5. Joseph Hutton
Possible father of John, who married Sarah Bateman.
Joseph (of Stevington) married Catherine Banbury 1732 Husborne Crawley
Joseph died 1758, buried at Aspley Guise (recorded as Mr)
Catherine died 1759, buried at Aspley Guise (recorded as Mrs)
Reference: R6/2/8/5; Date free text: 16 Dec 1758
Copy Will of Joseph Hutton of Aspley Guise, gentleman:
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085128
Joseph names wife Catherine, names brother Henry and names sons John and Joseph.
No baptisms could be found for children of Joseph and Catherine.
-
Very well documented cuffie81.
Although this is my lineage I have yet to get it into families etc.
At the mo I am trying to do 3 trees for folk but I have tried to find some info this
morning which I posted on the Beds board for Sue, and will look further when I get home.
Thanks
Sandy
-
Excellently put Cuffie. Thanks once again for you input.
A little more on Arthur Hutton, brother of my Adam, who went to the gold fields in Victoria, Australia . I now have most of the BDMs for him, his wife and all his children. He seems mostly to be a Quartzminer/Quartzreefer there. He is definitely the son of John Hutton oo Elizabeth Cripps, (Mothers maiden name given on his marriage Cert) He is not John Hutton, son of Joseph and Sarah, who married Elizabeth Norris first, and then Mary Ann Ellis.
Hi Sue.
You can find them on familysearch.org. :)
Have you read this about the family.
http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/wsc/docs/Weathercock.html
Sandy
Hi Sandy, thanks, and yes, Cuffie pointed me to this article. Wonderful. Seems these are my Huttons.
It's the Susannah that gives the clue as 4 of my 5 hutton siblings (Frederick, Henry, Adam and Arthur) appear in the 1841 census in Aspley Guise with Susannah Hutton. I noticed they are living at Church End - which I see is a little above and between Aspley Guise and Husborne Crawley......
Adam emigrated to South Africa in 1850.
Can you point me to the board where you posted that Hutton Family Tree? Much appreciated.
Kind rgds
Sue
-
I found your post Sandy. Thanks.
Sue
-
Okay I have now found some more info.
Arthur Hutton married Margaret Wisheart in Castlemaine in 1858.
Margaret was born in Dublin abt. 1838 to Alexander Wisheart and Mary Ann Fields.
Children were
Arthur Alexander Hutton died 1860
Jessie Caroline Hutton 1861 married Lauritz Jorgenson in 1884.
Mary Ann Hutton 1863 married Frederick Pederson 1886
John Henry Hutton 1865 died 1867
Elizabeth Wisheart Hutton 1869 died 1874
Margaret Hutton 1871 died 1871
Sandy
-
I can't help but wonder whether there's a gap in the available records. As good as the BFHS transcripts are they peter out in the 1830s and onwards in many parishes. I suspect quite a few births and deaths went unregistered (particularly deaths), so combined with the limited parish transcripts, there may be deaths that are unavailable online and that getting access to the parish records may identify more and make it easier to connect the dots.
Also, if you haven't done so already, it's worth having a look through the MK Heritage website as there's all manner of information on there. You might not find anything that helps connect the dots between various Huttons but it's interesting reading never the less.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Amkheritage.co.uk+hutton&t=hc&ia=web
Sue, I've had a look through the BFHS surname index for Elizabeth Cripps and there's no obvious record for her in the area. I've checked various spellings of Cripps but no joy. There are a lot of Cripps about though so it may take someone a bit of work to figure out who she is.
PS: I hope I didn't send you off on too many wild goose chases re. Arthur.
-
Sue before you go ordering certificates I can see if I have them.
Just list whose you want, or you can message me if you would prefer too.
Sandy
-
It looks like Frederick Hutton, brother of Adam, met a sad end...
Northampton Mercury 06 January 1893
Aspley Guise
SAD SUICIDE OF MR FREDERICK HUTTON
Last Friday morning, Mr. Frederick Hutton, a builder, Woburn Sands, committed suicide by hanging himself in the stable of Westridge. The deceased had been for some months engaged in building a new wing to the house, and he had got rather behind in the time he had allowed. It was noticed that Mr. Hutton had been in a rather depressed condition for the past few years, but no one had the slightest idea that the aged and respected man contemplated suicide. An inquest was held on Friday evening at the Duke's head, Aspley Guise, before Mr. F. T. Tanqueray, and after hearing evidence from Frederick Hutton (the deceased son), Thomas Henry Hayter, Harry Sharp, John Atterbury, and P.C. Askew, the jury returned a verdict of "Suicide whilst in a state of temporary insanity." The deceased was 75 years old and much sympathy is expressed for his aged widow and family.
-
Sandy - thanks for the Aus info on Arthur and family, there were a few I had missed.
Also, thanks very much for the GRO offer - I'll sort the list and let you know. It's frustrating having to wait 4-6 weeks for them to arrive here in Johannesburg :)
I can't help but wonder whether there's a gap in the available records. As good as the BFHS transcripts are they peter out in the 1830s and onwards in many parishes. I suspect quite a few births and deaths went unregistered (particularly deaths), so combined with the limited parish transcripts, there may be deaths that are unavailable online and that getting access to the parish records may identify more and make it easier to connect the dots........................
..................Sue, I've had a look through the BFHS surname index for Elizabeth Cripps and there's no obvious record for her in the area. I've checked various spellings of Cripps but no joy. There are a lot of Cripps about though so it may take someone a bit of work to figure out who she is.
PS: I hope I didn't send you off on too many wild goose chases re. Arthur.
Hello Cuffie - yes, I agree that much is not available online. I find this every time I look at the microfilms of the actual records. I will be going on Thursday to look at the films. The film for Wavendon is here, and I can look at the film for Aspley Guise online here at the FHCentre. I'll also see about getting the film for Elizabeth Cripps.
Thanks also for the info on Frederick Hutton's suicide. How sad. I wonder if there was any contact between the brothers - so far away from each other. Adam ins SA and Arthur in AUS were both dead by this time. Not sure about Henry. Regarding the AUS records, no - no wild goose chase there. I was fascinated to be back in the Australian goldfields. So many of Arthurs children died very young. I was also interested to read,here in South AFrica, that many immgrants who came to the Natal Colony could not make a go of it and sailed on to Melbourne to make their way to the Australian Goldfields.
I'll take a look at the Bedford link in a bit.
Thanks again for the generous help.
Sue
-
Sue I have P.M. you. :)
Sandy
-
[/i]
No doubt Sandy has a better idea of Henry James Cooper Hutton's tree than I do but I'll post what I think it is (with a bit of a re-cap), gleaned from the parish records and the wills in the Beds. archive.
1. Henry James Cooper Hutton
Son of John Hutton (farmer) & Elizabeth Norris, baptised 1824 Aspley Guise
2. John Hutton
John son of Joseph Hutton (farmer) & Elizabeth Cooper, baptised 1791 Husborne Crawley.
John married Elizabeth Norris 1824 Ridgmont
Elizabeth Norris daughter of Roger & Elizabeth, baptised 1801 Ridgmont.
Elizabeth died 1851, buried at Rdigmont
John married 1861 at London Colney to Mary Ann Ellis.
John died 1863 and buried at London Colney.
John and Elizabeth had children Henry James Cooper and Elizabeth Emma.
Reference: R6/2/8/20; Date free text: 11 Oct 1866
Declaration of John Green of Woburn, gentleman that:
- he knew John Hutton, late of Aspley Guise, farmer, father of Henry James Cooper Hutton of Pietermaritzberg, South Africa;
- he acted as solicitor for John Hutton from 1825 until his death;
- he had spoken to him about making a will but he believed he had never made one and had died intestate
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085143
3. Joseph Hutton
Joseph son of John Hutton and Sarah Bateman, baptised 1753 Husborne Crawley
Joseph married Elizabeth Cooper, 1787 Aspley Guise
Elizabeth died 1803, buried at Aspley Guise
Joseph married Sarah Coleman 1807 Aspley Guise
Joseph died 1821, aged 68, buried at Aspley Guise
Sarah died 1829, aged 60, buried at Aspley Guise
Joseph and Elizabeth had children Sarah (x2), John (x2) and Elizabeth.
Reference: R6/2/8/7; Date free text: 1814-1822
Will of 19 Nov 1814 of Joseph Hutton of Aspley Guise, yeoman:
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085130
Joseph names wife Sarah, names only son John and names married sisters Ann (Harmsden), Mary (Bogg) and Kitty (Sibley).
4. John Hutton
John (likely) son of Joseph Hutton and Catherine Banbury, no baptism found
John married Sarah Bateman 1752 Husborne Crawley
John died 1764, buried at Aspley Guise
Sarah died 1783, buried at Aspley Guise (recorded as widow)
John and Sarah had children Joseph, Ann, Mary, Thomas and Kitty (first 3 baptised at Husborne Crawley and last 2 at Aspley Guise).
5. Joseph Hutton
Possible father of John, who married Sarah Bateman.
Joseph (of Stevington) married Catherine Banbury 1732 Husborne Crawley
Joseph died 1758, buried at Aspley Guise (recorded as Mr)
Catherine died 1759, buried at Aspley Guise (recorded as Mrs)
Reference: R6/2/8/5; Date free text: 16 Dec 1758
Copy Will of Joseph Hutton of Aspley Guise, gentleman:
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085128
Joseph names wife Catherine, names brother Henry and names sons John and Joseph.
No baptisms could be found for children of Joseph and Catherine.
................I'd like to add some (more) thoughts and observations to Cuffie's brilliant summary. I will continue in a separate post..............
-
Regarding Mary Ann Ellis:
Something I picked up trawling through the census records for Aspley Guise: A Mary Ann Ellis is bapt 16 April 1843 in Aspley Guise (parents William and Elizabeth). in the 1851 census she is 11 yrs old (est birth 1840) and living with her family (father is William H Ellis) at 77 East Street. John Hutton (45), * 1796, above is living with his wife Elizabeth at 95 East Street so they probably know the Ellis family. Elizabeth Hutton dies the year of the census - 1851. It appears that Mary Ann has an illigit. daughter, Sarah Eliz Ellis in 1859 in Aspley Guise - she is 16 (no father stated). 2 years later in 1861 she marries John Hutton in London. She is 18 though she states she is 23. John Hutton is 61 and states he is 55!! The marriage might have been good for both of them, despite the age gap of almost 40 years! John dies 2 years later in 1863 at 67. Mary Ann marries Joseph Dickenson the next year. *****
Regarding the "two"HUTTON Families in the area at a similar time:
JOSEPH HUTTON (oo Elizabeth Cooper) has only the one son, John in 1796 who marries Elizabeth Norris and has 2 children. Henry James Cooper (John's maternal grandfathers name is James Cooper (ABM1787/32b - Joseph Hutton intending to marry Eliz Cooper). The second child is Elizabeth Emma. Presume she dies young as I can't find any more on her. Henry James Cooper Hutton sails from London on the "Edward" for the Natal Colony in Jan 1850. He marries and settles there.
MICHAEL HUTTON ( oo Elizabeth N?) of the WEATHERCOCK INN has the following children, all baptised in Wavendon:
19 Mar 1775 Baptism - William Hutton
02 Mar 1777 Baptism - Michael Hutton
17 Dec 1780 Baptism - Elizabeth Hutton (prob dies young)
01 May 1785 Baptism - Susannah Hutton
07 Sep 1788 Baptism - JOHN Hutton
16 Jan 1791 Baptism - Mary Hutton
09 Dec 1792 Baptism - James Hutton
08 Jun 1794 Baptism - Francis Hutton (Prob dies young).
All the surviving issue above , except JOHN!!, appear in the early census records, some are married and many of their children also appear. (I am putting all this together).
I am most interested in JOHN (b 1788) who marries Elizabeth CRIPPS, from Cranfield, in 1817. (Mothers name stated at son Arthur's marriage in Australia) They have the following children-
Frederick *1819, Caroline *1821, Henry *1821 (twins?), ADAM *1825 and Arthur *1826. All the children are baptised on the same day, 27 March 1826 (just after Arthur's birth). Johns occupation is stated a "Miller". (There was a mill behind the Weathercock Inn, and one near Cranfield).
In the 1841 Wavendon Census Caroline is living in a house with 7 other young women in Dunstable, just 10 miles away and her four brothers are living in Church End (Woburn Sands) with their maiden aunts Susannah and Mary Hutton. Susannah is a farmer. There is no mention of their parents John and Elizabeth. They don't appear anywhere in the 1841 census. So, where did they go???? Did they both die sometime before 1841? perhaps even as early as 1826? hence the sudden baptism of all the children together??? I have no idea, just supposition.
Frederick, Caroline and Henry marry and stay in the area. Adam sails for the Natal Colony on the "Minerva" only a few months after Henry James Cooper above. Arthur appears in the 1851 Census lodging with sister Caroline. He emigrates to Australia in the few years and he marries there in 1858.
I think it is pretty clear who the two couples, John Hutton oo Elizabeth, are. If the two Johns are connected at all, via their fathers (Michael and Joseph) perhaps, I have not found the connection yet. Maybe it's there way back somewhere, there are so many Huttons around .....my head is already spinning! Maybe they are just two families with the same name living in the same area at the same time.
Sue :)
-
Re. John Hutton and Elizabeth Cripps they are a bit of a mystery as there's very little sign of them. I still think that death registration in 1845 is worth looking into though, as I haven't come across any other Elizabeth Huttons who it could be. If she is the wife of John (the miller) it would hopefully indicate whether John was still alive or not.
GRO BMDs references:
1845 Q2 Death - Elizabeth Hutton 51 (est b1794) Woburn 06 82
Re. Michael Hutton and Elizabeth, I think there's a likely marriage for them:
09 Aug 1774 Little Linford, Bucks; Michael Hutton (of Wavendon) & Elizabeth Teagle
As for Michael's death, his will was proved 3rd February 1808, so he could have (probably?) died in 1807 which brings us to a death/burial reference in FamilySearch that I'm dubious about.
The FamilySearch record is for a baptism of Michael Hutton in 1806 Newport Pagnell, son of Michael and Ann. The record has an associated death date of 1807 but no age. I'm convinced that this child did not die and went on to marry Jane Smart (1829 Ridgmont) so is this death reference to another Michael Hutton, possibly his grandfather (ie husband of Elizabeth, who is known to have died about 1808)? Getting access to the Newport Pagnell parish records may be the only way to determine whether this death is the child Michael, or another Michael, if it has an age recorded.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPRL-BJW
Re. sons of Michael and Elizabeth, Michael and William, there's some clear marriages for them and it appears they both had daughters named Susanna and it's possible (at a stretch) either of these could have been the Susanna on the 1841 census with Adam and his siblings.
Marriages:
01 Mar 1802 Aspley Guise - Wm Hutton (bach) & Ann Rookes (spin of Wavenden)
23 Sep 1799 Stony Stratford - Michael Hutton & Anne Grimmet
Baptisms:
22 Apr 1810 Apsley Guise - Susnh Hutton, dau of Wm & Ann; labr
29 Jul 1819 Aspley Guise - Sus Hutton, dau of Mich & Ann; wheelwright
As noted previously Susannah, daughter of William & Ann, married Joseph Morris Day. Given her age this Susanna is the best match for the 1841 census record but Joseph and Susanna were in Bedford on the 1841 census, so she can be ruled out.
Susanna, daughter of Michael & Ann, looks to have married John Thomas Stratford in 1837 and they look to have moved to Marylebone, Middlesex, so she too can be ruled out as the Susanna on the 1841 census. It looks as if Susanna was widowed quite soon and later re-married to Edward Evans; on the marriage register she names her father as Michael Hutton, millwright.
The census references which I could find for Susanna give her birth place as either Aspley or Woburn Sands. Her age fluctuates a bit but she looks a good match.
Census references:
1841 Ref HO107; Piece 677; Book 11; Folio 10; Page 15; [???]
1851 Ref HO107; Piece 1490; Folio 716; Page 47;
1861 Ref RG09; Piece 126; Folio 10; Page 18;
1891 Ref RG12; Piece 152; Folio 37; Page 28;
GRO BMD references:
1837 Q4 Marriage - Susanna Hutton & John Thomas Stratford; Woburn 6 177
1838 Q2 Birth - John Stratford (mmn: Hutton); Marylebone 01 122
1839 Q1 Death - John Thomas Stratford; 22* (est b1817); Marylebone 01 133
1850 Q3 Marriage - Susanna Stratford & Edward Evans; Marylebone 1 217
1851 Q2 Birth - George Evans (mmn: Hutton); Marylebone 01 189
1860 Q1 Birth - James Evans (mmn: Hutton); East London 01c 6
Coming back to that 1841 census record, with Adam, his siblings, and Susannah and Mary, it really does look like Susannah and Mary are the (unmarried) daughters of Michael and Elizabeth, as I can't see any other Susanna (or Mary) that it could be (despite the age discrepancy). If you get lucky death certs. for spinsters can sometimes include the name and occupation of their fathers.
I found a few other newspaper references for the Huttons. Another re. Frederick's death (with more details) and one for his funeral. A couple of references to Michael Hutton, son of Michael & Ann, re. non-support of his ageing mother and non-payment of charges for his wife (Jane?) in the lunatic asylum. There's also a couple of references to a John Hutton in Woburn in 1841 (charged with assault) and 1843 (victim of assault) but no indication of age or occupation so unclear which John. If anyone wants me to transcribe these and post them let me know.
None of this is much use in pinning down Adam's parents (sorry) but may help somewhat in connecting the Hutton dots.
-
Thanks so much Cuffie!
I'll take a little time to absorb all this and fit it in to what I have gleaned so far.
I would really appreciate transcriptions of the newspaper references you mention.
Till later
Thanks again
Sue
-
John Hutton
Northampton Mercury 29 May 1841
Woburn - Petty Sessions, May 21
John Hutton and Thomas Daniels, of Aspley Guise, were charged by Sarah Goodall, of the same place, with assaulting her on the 4th of May. Several witnesses were examined on both sides, and the complainant having been proved to have herself provoked the assault, the case dismissed. And the costs were ordered to be paid by the plaintiff in 14 days.
Northampton Mercury 02 Jul 1842
Aspley Heath:
Two poor men named Thomas and Wm. Daniel, were charged with assaulting John Hutton, of Aspley Guise. The case originated in the dispute concerning the rights of the Heath. The Daniels have for a long time past been in the habit of digging Fuller's earth from the Heath, and they were so engaged when Mr. Hutton came with two other men, and commenced filling in the pit. The Daniels accordingly flung some shovels-full of sand over Hutton, which constituted the assault complained of. Some difference of opinion was expressed by the two magistrates as to the mode of dealing with the offence. Mr. Smith thought the assault had been provoked by Hutton, for the poor had, for upwards of 50 years, been allowed to dig Fuller's earth on the Heath; and Mr. Cooper said they were not trying the question of the rights of the Heath, but an assault. - The bench ultimately fined the Daniels 1s., and costs, amounting to 9s. 6d., to be paid by 22nd of July.
Michael Hutton
Northampton Mercury 20 February 1847
Woburn - Petty Sessions, Feb 12
Before Lord Charles Russell, the Rev. E. O. Smith, the Rev. J. Vuax Moore, and Henry Charles Hoare, Esq.
Refusal to contribute towards the support of a parent:
Michael Hutton of Aspley Guise, was summoned by order of the Woburn Board of Poor Law Guardians to show cause why he refused to support his aged mother. The defendant, who was something more than a labourer, and without any family of his own, heartlessly refused to allow her the smallest trifle. Order to be served upon him.
The Bedford Times & Bedfordshire Independent
Tuesday July 5, 1859
Petty Sessions, July 1st 1859
Present: Rev. E. O Smith, W. L. Smart, and C. H. Smith, Esqs.
Michael Hutton, of Aspley Guise, carpenter, was summoned charged with non-payment of arrears, under an order made upon him to contribute 4s. 6d. per week toward the support of his wife, who is in a lunatic asylum; The defendant alleged, as a reason why he could not pay the money, that he had to help a maintain the children of a widow woman, in whose house he was living; the bench said it was a very bad case and were committing him to the house of correction for three months, when the defendant promised he would keep up his payments reguarly, and pay 1s. 6d. per week off the arrears, amounting to £8 0s. 6d., upon which agreement he was discharged.
The Bedford Times & Bedfordshire Independent
Tuesday Feb 24, 1863
Woburn - Petty Sessions, Feb 20
Present: Revs. E. O. Smith and J. V. Moore; W. C. Cooper, C. H. Smith, and S. G. Paynes, Esqs
A warrant of distress was issued against the goods of Michael Hutton, for arrears due to the union for the maintenance of his wife in the lunatic asylum.
(I'll post the others later today)
-
Very interesting. Will check against the dates etc I have. Thank you for your trouble Cuffie.
Sue
-
I thought I would take a look at the information since been posted and was surprised to see
quite a lot of it I had already given to Sue in e-mails.
It seems as if we are duplicating information, never mind two heads is better than one. :)
I found a paper family tree of the Huttons someone gave me years ago which goes back to the 1600's on 5 A1 size pieces.
Sandy
-
To confirm some of the information.
John 1796 son of Joseph married Elizabeth Cripps not Elizabeth Norris.
GRO BMDs references:
1845 Q2 Death - Elizabeth Hutton 51 (est b1794) Woburn 06 82
This Elizabeth is the wife of James and Sue has this info.
Sandy
-
Here are the dates for articles I sent to Sue from the newspapers.
01-09-1838, 19-09-1846, 04-01-1881, 08-01-1889, 07-01-1893, 20-03-1931
Sandy
-
Looking at the tree I have and the information being listed here, either I am confused
or in-correct with 2 other people.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=768263.0
Sandy
-
To confirm some of the information.
John 1796 son of Joseph married Elizabeth Cripps not Elizabeth Norris.
GRO BMDs references:
1845 Q2 Death - Elizabeth Hutton 51 (est b1794) Woburn 06 82
This Elizabeth is the wife of James and Sue has this info.
Sandy
Hi Sandy
I have ordered a lot of GRO's including this one - sadly its some weeks before I get them. I have been pondering this particular GRO. I doesn't fit somehow. I have not found any marriage for James Hutton at all, unless its elsewhere. If James had a wife I would have expected her to be on the 1841 census record and James is alone at 20 Weathercock Lane. I think you said the GRO listed him as a Publican? I suppose he was also involved with his family and the Weathercock Inn. I also haven't found any children. Of course this doesn't mean they are not there! I haven't found any death for James yet either, and I have trawled through the GRO indexes. Maybe James went elsewhere as in 1851 his is a visitor at his nephew Henry oo Ruth in Wavendon. I have also ordered the Aspley Guise films for viewing here, (there are a couple with some overlap) so I am hopeful, but its also a few weeks wait. I want to see all the burials myself. I am struggling to order the Wavendon film though...not giving up.
Regarding John Hutton *1896, I still think he married Elizabeth Norris (in 1824) not Elizabeth Cripps. Cuffie puts it all very clearly. In 1824 John Hutton *1788 and Elizabeth Cripps already had 3 children. I also have not found any link between my 5 siblings (Frederick, Caroline, Henry, ADAM and Arthur) and Henry James Cooper and his Grandfather Joseph Hutton (whose records are all nicely there online). I am not sure if we will ever be able to sort all the Elizabeth Huttons with absolute certainly, but I do hope the GROs and films will help.
I have to add that at times I really struggle with who is who, I just can't hold all this information in my head, so I do apologise for any duplication.
Someone lucky is going to stumble on these posts one day and all the work will have been done :).
I certainly wouldn't have got very far without the generous help on this forum.
Sue :)
-
Sandy I think that paper tree seems to has hit the same confusions we have. It's exactly as I had it when I started.
-
It is a shame about the certificate as I have just sent you it Sue.
Sixth of June 1845 Aspley.
Elizabeth Hutton, Female, 51 years, Wife of James Hutton, Publican, Dropsy, Informant
the x mark of Margaret Abbott in Attendance, Aspley.
On the census night Elizabeth could have been elsewhere in the village or elsewhere nearby.
I will look at the other info when I have checked my file.
Sandy
-
Okay as it seems I could be wrong by the information being given by other Rootschatters
I will not proceed with my tree unless I can see someone else can confirm it is so.
Thanks Sue for the certificates, greatly appreciated.
Sandy
-
John 1796 son of Joseph married Elizabeth Cripps not Elizabeth Norris.
Personally I think there's enough evidence to be fairly sure that John (the farmer, son of Joseph), married Elizabeth Norris, and that it was John (the miller, father of Adam & siblings) that married Elizabeth Cripps. There's the declaration in the Beds. archive that John, father of Henry James Cooper, married Elizabeth Norris in 1824 and married Mary Ann Ellis in 1861. And Sue has obtained the marriage record for Arthur, which states his parents were John Hutton and Elizabeth Crispp [typo?]. Regardless of my opinion it's up yourselves how you interpret these records.
If it was me though I think I'd like to see the original documents held by Beds archives, as it's not entirely clear to me whether the text on their website is taken directly from the records or if it's someone's interpretation of various records. Beds archives do offer a service where they scan various documents, for a small fee.
Reference: R6/2/8/15; Date free text: 14 Sep 1866
Declaration of George Whitman of Aspley Guise that:
- he was 44 years old;
- he knew John, father of Henry James Cooper Hutton;
- John Hutton was married twice, first to Elizabeth Norris of Ridgmont in Jan 1824 and second in May 1861 to Mary Ann Ellis of Aspley Guise;
- Henry James Cooper Hutton was born in 1824, only child of John and Elizabeth Hutton;
- John Hutton died in Feb 1863
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110085138
I have Arthur Hutton's marriage Certificate: married Margaret Wisheart in Victoria AUS, 9 Dec 1858, age 27 born Bedfordshire, father John Hutton, Mother Elizabeth Crispp.....
-
GRO BMDs references:
1845 Q2 Death - Elizabeth Hutton 51 (est b1794) Woburn 06 82
This Elizabeth is the wife of James and Sue has this info.
Sandy
That (kind of) answers the question who this Elizabeth was then. Assuming James was the one on the 1851 census with (nephew?) Henry & Ruth, he was listed as a widower, which would tally. I don't suppose you've found a marriage for James & Elizabeth, Sandy?
That does mean both John & Elizabeth are still AWOL though. Odd.
-
No I haven't found a marriage cuffie81, but there may not have been one or it may have been
missed of the indexes.
I remember years ago going to St.Catherine's House and seeing folk add missing folk
in pencil on the indexes.
Sue could you clarify something for me please on the marriage cert of Arthur he notes
his parents as John Hutton and Elizabeth Cripps, yet on the death cert you kindly sent
me it states his father was Frederick.
Thanks Sandy
-
My interpretation of that if his fatherwas deceased it would refer to "next of kin" which would be his eldest brother Frederick.
-
Thanks that at least would make sense, except it says name of Father and Mother.
Sandy
-
As I'm not entirely sure what newspaper references you each have, or don't have, I'll just post the others I've come across (I'm omitting the ones included on the MK Heritage website re. Weathercock Inn).
Henry Hutton
Bedfordshire Mercury
15 July 1843
At the Woburn Petty Sessions, yesterday week, Henry Hutton, son of John Hutton, farmer, of Aspley, fined the full penalty and costs, for trespassing against the game laws, and not appearing to the summons.
Rebecca Hutton
The Dunstable Chronicle
24 Dec 1859
Woburn Petty Sessions, Dec 16
Present: Lord C. J. F. Russell, Rev. E. Orlebar Smith, and Rev. I. Vaux Moore
An order for 2s. 6d. per week anc costs was made on Joseph Salmons, junr., coachbuilder, Newport, on the complaint of Rebecca Hutton, of Woburn Sands, that he was the father of her illegitmate child.
Rebecca is likely the daughter of Daniel and Elizabeth, and her child is likely Elizabeth (b abt 1859).
Susanna Hutton
Leicester Chronicle
14 July 1832
STOLEN HORSES - The crime of horse stealing appears to be on the increse. From a piece of ground at Soddor, Montgomery, a light bay mare of the cart kind, the property of Mr. Davis, Soddor; from a close in the occupation of Susanna Hutton, Wavendon, Bucks a dark brown mare pony, in good condition; from Sodbury common, Gloucestershire, a dark bay mare of the nag kind, the property of Mr. Fowler; from Gosford Green, Conventry, a bay pony, belonging to Mr. Harman, East Harrington, Somerset, a black pony mare; also fro, from near the same palce, a cheshnut pony with switch tail, the property of Mr. Cox, of Whitnell, near Wells; from Seagry, Wilts, a black stout gelding, between the nag and cart kind, the property of Mr. J. Driver; from Crowland Bank, Northampton, a two year old bay mare of the cart kind, belonging to Mr. T. Williams, Peakirk.
James Hutton
Northampton Mercury
20 April 1844
Woburn - Petty Sessions, April 12
Game Laws. - George Harris made a charge against James Hutton, a noted poacher, living at Aspley Guise, who has been convicted about 20 times. Geo. White, gamkeeper to the Duke of Bedford, proved his setting a snare on Aspley Heath, the 29th March. As he did not appear, the highest penalty was inflicted.
There's several references to James Hutton and I presume it's the younger James in the area, and quite possibly the same one who appears a few times in the Bedfordshire Gaol Register.
http://apps.bedford.gov.uk/grd/
Frederick Hutton
Bedfordshire Mercury
30 October 1875
In Liquidation
VALUABLE FREEHOLD DWELLING HOUSE and GARDEN, and Two Plots of eligible BUILDING GROUND, situate at WOBURN SANDS, BEDS, to be sold by aution, by
J. P. GOODWIN
By direction of the trustee of the estate and effects of Mr F. Hutton, Woburn Sands, Builder, on Monday, the 1st day of November, 1875, at the Weathercock Inn, Woburn Sands, at six o'clock in the evening, in three lots, subject to conditions to be then produced. - Lot 1. A freehold brick-built and slated DWELLING HOUSE and Garden Ground, situate at Woburn Sands, adjoining the turnpike road, and now in the occupation of Mr F. Hutton. - Lot 2. A valuable plot of BUILDING GROUND, at Woburn Sands, having a frontage to the turnpike road of 48 feet and a depth of 116 feet; together with the timber-built Stable and Hovel standing theron. The ground is well stocked with Fruit Trees. The purchaser of this lot to put a fence to divide lot 2 from lot 3. - Lot 3. A valuable plot of BUILDING GROUND, at Woburn Sands, adjoining lot 2, having frontage to the turnpike road of about 43 feet, including boundary wall, and a depth of 116 feet. Also a capital brick-built and Slated Workshop, Cart Shed, and Stable standing theron, together with the long lean-to Timber Shed at the back therof. - N.B. In the event of lots 2 and 3 not being sold separately, they will be offered together. - The above property is pleasantly situate in the improving neighbourhood of Woburn Sands, is within a few minutes' walk of the Railway Station, and presents a first-rate opportunity for investment, or for a site for the erection of a villa to persons desiring a residence in this salubrious locality. To view apply to Mr Hutton, Woburn Sands; and for further particulars to Messrs W. B. and W. R. Bull, Solicitors, or to the Auctioneer, all of Newport Pagnell.
Bedfordshire Times and Independent
07 January 1893
WOBURN SANDS
The funeral on the late Mr F. Hutton took place on Wednesday afternoon at half-past two o'clock in Woburn Sands Church-yard, deceased having attended that church reguarly for many years. The coffin was of oak with brass fitting and entirely covered with some splendid wreaths and crosses from his sorrowing wife and family. Among the mourners were Mrs. Hutton, widow, and Mr F. Hutton, Mr. H. Hutton, sons of deceased; and Mrs. Sergeant, daughter; Mr. Sergeant, son-in-law; Mrs. Baily, sister; Mrs. F. Hutton, daughter-in-law; Mr. B. Tomlin, grandson; Mr. F. Bailey, Mr. W. Baily, nephews; Mrs. W. Bailey, Miss Brantom, and Mrs. Emerton. Mr. Spring was the undertaker. Deceased was a member of the Old Fellows Club and several of the members attended the funeral.
-
Frederick Hutton
Bedfordshire Times and Independent
07 January 1893
WOBURN SANDS
SUICIDE OF A TRADESMAN
On Friday morning, the 30th, the quiet village of Aspley Guise was thrown into a state of unwanted excitement by the report that Mr. Frederick Hutton, master builder, of Woburn Sands, had committed suicide by hanging himself in Mr. Sullivan's coach house at Westridge. The report proved to be only too true, and people at once began to conjecture the reason for his rash act. During the summer he had contracted to build a new wing at Westridge, and the thought that he was some time beyond the date he had given for finishing the job had evidently preyed upon his mind and it was noticed that he had been rather depressed of late, but no one had the slightest idea that the genial and highly-respected Mr Hutton would die by his own hand.
An inquest was held at the Duke's Head public house on Friday evening, before Mr F. T. Tranqueray, coroner for Ampthill district, the jury being composed of Messrs. T. Day (foreman), A. J. Paxiou[?], T. Wilson, J. Everitt, T. Smith, G. Cooke, W. Caustin, and J. Shotbolt.
The first witness called was Frederick Hutton, builder, Aspley Guise, son of the deceased, who deposed that his father was 75 years old last July. Deceased had contract for building M. Mahon's house. Witness knew noting about the work. He had a conversation with his father about the work about a fortnight ago, and he told him he thought he shouldn't get out with it very well. Deceased had been very depressed in spirit of late, the sole cause of the depression being the work in which he was engaged. His father had hardly had a day's illness in his life. Witness had no knowledge of the contract but knew Mr. Mahon would be lenient to his father. His mother told him that the deceased had been depressed for some six weeks. He had never spoken of committing suicide.
Thomas Henry Hayter, gardener at Westridge, stated that about nine o'clock he saw Hutton, who passed and spoke to witness in a low kind of way. He thought there was something wrong with him then. He had noticed the depression for several days. He had seen him most days, he seemed very absent-minded, and witness could not make him out. Witness had to get to Woburn Sands by ten o'clock, and after he came back he stayed in his own garden for some time. He got back to Westridge about half-past ten, and went into the coach-house to put a barrow up. He turned round, and saw as he thought, Hutton climbing up a ladder, and the noticed what was the matter. He at once ran into the house and fetched the painters. Deceased was hanging below a trap-door but witness did not notice the distance his feet were from the ground. The shock sent him off his head a little. Two painters went back with him and found Hutton dead. Witness then fetched the police who came and cut him down. They didn't alter deceased position until the policeman came. Witness suggested cutting him down, but Sharp said there was no occasion to that as he was quite dead.
Harry Sharp, painter, of Ridgmont, deposed that he was engaged in painting at Westridge. He had seen the deceased during the morning about nine o'clock; he just spoke to him and he appeared very quiet. He noticed that for a day or two he seemed like one lost. Hayter called him about half-past ten and they went to the stable and found deceased hanging by a rope from the purloin of the loft though the trap-door. His feet were about a foot from the ground. He felt his hand and found it perfectly cold; he then put his hand under his waistcoat, but there was no motion of the heart, and he concluded he was dead, The face was placid and quite white - no discolouration whatever.
...
-
...
A Juryman thought it should be more generally known that the first thing a person should do on finding another hanging by a rope was to cut the rope and wait for a policeman.
John Atterbury, labourer who had worked for deceased, said he had seen him that morning while at work. He seemed worried about the work - nothing else. He didn't get on fast enough; it seemed too much for him. The rope was an ordinary scaffold[?] rope, there were lots of them in the coach-house.
P.c. Frederick Askew said he was called at twenty minutes to eleven by Thomas Henry Hayter, and he at once went to Westridge, where he found the deceased hanging in the stable. He produced[?] the rope found round his neck. The knot was just behind the ear. He cut him down. He was quite dead. Witness felt the body and it was warm, but the hands and face were quite cold. That was at eleven o'clock. The body was getting stiff; the arms were stiff, and the face pallid. One eye was open, and it looked like life. The eyes and tongue were not protruding, He searched the body and found a purse containing a cheque for £20 from Mr Mahon, 7s. 6d. in silver, 11d. in coppers, and two stamps. He also found various papers and plans relating to the building in his pocket.
The Coroner here read a letter found on the deceased from Mr. W. H. C. Mahon, dated Dec 24th. In this letter Mr Mahon said that if Mr. Hutton could satisfy Mr. Murray (the architect) that his estimate was too low, he would be willing to make it up to him, and he advanced a cheque for £20 on account.
This closed the evidence, and the jury came to the conclusion that the deceased was not accountable for his action at the time, and a verdict was returned that the deceased committed suicide by hanging while in a state of temporary insanity.
-
Thanks for typing up the transcriptions.
I love that John Atterbury is in the last one as he married into my Sibley line and I had already
seen that article and sent to Sue.
I am just going to clarify some information from original marriages.
1846 Caroline Hutton, father is noted as John Hutton Farmer, witness Henry Hutton (brother)
1849 Henry Hutton a Farmer, father John Hutton Farmer, no family witnessed.
1849 Frederick Hutton a Builder, father is noted as John Hutton Inn Keeper, witness Arthur Hutton.
Sandy
-
It is too nice a day to stay indoors, just to clarify more.
Parents seem to be Henry Hutton oo ? Rulton. Elizabeth b 1850 and William Henry b 1852, both in Newport Pagnell, Bucks. William baptised 24 June 1853 in Wavendon. Newport Pagnell only 8 miles north of Aspley Guise.
These children were born at Wavendon in the registration district of Newport Pagnell, hence being
baptised in the P.C. there. http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/bkm.html
Sandy
-
I did have a look for Susannah Huttons and there's 2 marriages, one in 1833 to Joseph Morris Day and another in 1837 (possibly) to John Thomas Stratford.
This Susannah was the daughter of Michael Hutton of full age marrying John Thomas Stratford
in 1837.
Sandy
-
2. John Hutton
John son of Joseph Hutton (farmer) & Elizabeth Cooper, baptised 1791 Husborne Crawley.
John married Elizabeth Norris 1824 Ridgmont
This John dies in 1791 and in Joseph's will of 1814 he says to his only son John whom
must be the one of 1796 as it mentions my relative Kitty and 2 other sisters.
Sandy
-
I am looking for the baptisms of 4 of the children of JOHN HUTTON oo ELIZABETH NORRIS.
FAMILYSEARCH gives the same baptism date for all 4, namely Adam, Caroline, Henry and Arthur, the date being 27 March 1826.
JOSEPH HUTTON (oo Elizabeth Cooper) has only the one son, John in 1796 who marries Elizabeth Norris and has 2 children. Henry James Cooper (John's maternal grandfathers name is James Cooper (ABM1787/32b - Joseph Hutton intending to marry Eliz Cooper). The second child is Elizabeth Emma.
I think we need a re-cap.
Sandy
-
Good morning
You are all far to fast for me :)
But I'm getting there - slowly.
Something just hit me!! Regarding the Gaol registers Cuffie pointed to for James Hutton from his age recorded there he was born born in Crawley 1814 or 1824) ..... so, what if this James Hutton is actually Henry JAMES Cooper Hutton born 1824??????
He got up to no end of nonsense in South Africa so it would come as no surprise to me.
I've ordered some of these docs.
I'll go back to looking at everything else posted recently - thanks.
Sue
-
I am looking for the baptisms of 4 of the children of JOHN HUTTON oo ELIZABETH NORRIS.
FAMILYSEARCH gives the same baptism date for all 4, namely Adam, Caroline, Henry and Arthur, the date being 27 March 1826.
JOSEPH HUTTON (oo Elizabeth Cooper) has only the one son, John in 1796 who marries Elizabeth Norris and has 2 children. Henry James Cooper (John's maternal grandfathers name is James Cooper (ABM1787/32b - Joseph Hutton intending to marry Eliz Cooper). The second child is Elizabeth Emma.
I think we need a re-cap.
Sandy
Just a comment here Sandy - at this early stage I had no idea there was a second John Hutton oo Elizabeth couple, the other Elizabeth being Eliz Cripps.
Sue
-
Thank you for taking the trouble to type all those Hutton articles Cuffie. Much appreciated. They are nice and easy to read here and there is a lot I haven't seen.
Re your post #48 with a marriage for Michael Hutton (I) - I am up to Michael (III). Though I can't find the 1774 Marriage on Ancestry.com, I have found his wife Elizabeth Teagle. She was baptised 21 Feb 1753 in Haversham, Bucks (now Haversham-cum-Linford), 8 miles or so North of Wavendon. Father James, mother Mary. This fits nicely with the marriage in Little Linford. Thanks for that. I'll work on her family in due course.
Regarding Michael (I)'s death - I would agree that its probably in 1807. As you posted: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPRL-BJW
The burial in 1807 associated with the baptism here for Michael (II) in 1806. There is a Michael (III) so I agree that it is probably Michael (I) whose Will you mentioned was proven in 1808. I will hopefully be able to cast light when I see the film.
I found the two cousins, Susannah (daughters of Michael & William) and their marriages you gave. Thanks.
Regarding Michael (III) and non support of his mother and his wife Jane's being in the Lunatic Asylum:
QUOTE
Northampton Mercury 20 February 1847
Woburn - Petty Sessions, Feb 12
Refusal to contribute towards the support of a parent:
Michael Hutton of Aspley Guise, was summoned by order of the Woburn Board of Poor Law Guardians to show cause why he refused to support his aged mother. The defendant, who was something more than a labourer, and without any family of his own, heartlessly refused to allow her the smallest trifle. Order to be served upon him. QUOTE
Seems he took note as in 1851 his Pauper Mother Ann is living with him & wife Jane at 59 West Street, as well as his 15 yr old niece Sarah (his sister Ann's illigit daughter). His mother died in 1858.
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in WOBURN UNION Volume 03B Page 224 age 77
QUOTE Petty Sessions, July 1st 1859
A warrant of distress was issued against the goods of Michael Hutton, for arrears due to the union for the maintenance of his wife in the lunatic asylum. QUOTE
I did come across Jane in the Asylum Admissions Registers on Anc.com but didn't make the connection. She was admitted 3 times. In 1854 for 8 mths, in 1857 for 7 mths and then in 1860 till she dies 22 Sept 1862. I find this very sad.
As I'm not entirely sure what newspaper references you each have, or don't have, I'll just post the others I've come across (I'm omitting the ones included on the MK Heritage website re. Weathercock Inn).
Henry Hutton
Bedfordshire Mercury
15 July 1843
At the Woburn Petty Sessions, yesterday week, Henry Hutton, son of John Hutton, farmer, of Aspley, fined the full penalty and costs, for trespassing against the game laws, and not appearing to the summons.
...........................
James Hutton
Northampton Mercury
20 April 1844
Woburn - Petty Sessions, April 12
Game Laws. - George Harris made a charge against James Hutton, a noted poacher, living at Aspley Guise, who has been convicted about 20 times. Geo. White, gamkeeper to the Duke of Bedford, proved his setting a snare on Aspley Heath, the 29th March. As he did not appear, the highest penalty was inflicted.
There's several references to James Hutton and I presume it's the younger James in the area, and quite possibly the same one who appears a few times in the Bedfordshire Gaol Register.
http://apps.bedford.gov.uk/grd/
I am more convinced that ever that the above Henry, or James as he sometimes calls himself, is indeed one and the same man, Henry James Cooper Hutton :) No wonder he ducked off to South Africa :)
There is a lot of extra information on poor Frederick's suicide and funeral that I will go through carefully. Poor man.
A cup of tea is needed now.
Thanks again
Sue
-
Thanks for typing up the transcriptions.
I love that John Atterbury is in the last one as he married into my Sibley line and I had already
seen that article and sent to Sue.
I am just going to clarify some information from original marriages.
1846 Caroline Hutton, father is noted as John Hutton Farmer, witness Henry Hutton (brother)
1849 Henry Hutton a Farmer, father John Hutton Farmer, no family witnessed.
1849 Frederick Hutton a Builder, father is noted as John Hutton Inn Keeper, witness Arthur Hutton.
Sandy
Great extra details here Sandy. Thanks very much.
I feel happy to think the above John Hutton (Miller, Farmer, Inn Keeper) is my John oo Elizabeth Cripps. He likely to have done all the above if his family basically had the Weathercock Inn. Also, he is not a witness, so could be alive or dead. I'd presume him dead.
The other John Hutton oo Eliz Norris has always been a farmer, and just that.
I hope you are enjoying the sunshine Sandy. I am afraid to admit that it is mostly sunny here in Johannesburg so I don't mind being at my laptop ;)
Sue
-
Cuffie, re.your link https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPRL-BJW for Baptism & burial of Michael Hutton in 1806 and 1807. I am looking at my notes. I had worked it out before but had forgotten!
It is correct. This is an older Michael who died. There is a second son named Michael baptised in Northamptonshire 22 May 1808, Parents Michael and Ann.
The census records give more light. 1841 in Aspley Guise states "not born in County". 1851 in Aspley Guise states born Whittlebury, Northamptonshire. Whittlebury is about 20 miles NW of Aspley Guise. 1861 States Crawley but maybe he is getting forgetful!
I think Michael and Ann moved around a bit as some of theother children are born elsewhere too - Bow Brickhill, Ridgmont, Eversholt.
-
2. John Hutton
John son of Joseph Hutton (farmer) & Elizabeth Cooper, baptised 1791 Husborne Crawley.
John married Elizabeth Norris 1824 Ridgmont
This John dies in 1791 and in Joseph's will of 1814 he says to his only son John whom
must be the one of 1796 as it mentions my relative Kitty and 2 other sisters.
Sandy
My mistake Sandy, I'll correct the post (if I still can) just in case anyone else comes across this thread in future.
EDIT: The post is too old by the looks of it.
-
We only have 2 days now to make amendments cuffie81, no worries.
I spent 4 hours in a churchyard doing all the graves in the sunshine Sue
for another Rootschatter who had one there and now maybe others. :)
When the one Church Warden asked if I wanted to go into the Church
(in Northants they are often locked) to look around and showed me the grave plan
I was really grateful, then the other Church Warden arrived later whilst I was still
there, she asked what I was doing and said would you like to photograph some of the
original parish records for the person I was helping. I was gob smacked but delighted.
There are so many nice folk around.
Sandy
-
There sure are some nice folks around!!! :)
-
Re your post #48 with a marriage for Michael Hutton (I) - I am up to Michael (III). Though I can't find the 1774 Marriage on Ancestry.com, I have found his wife Elizabeth Teagle. She was baptised 21 Feb 1753 in Haversham, Bucks (now Haversham-cum-Linford), 8 miles or so North of Wavendon. Father James, mother Mary. This fits nicely with the marriage in Little Linford. Thanks for that. I'll work on her family in due course.
I found the marriage on FreeReg. I would give you a link but FreeReg don't seem to allow directly linking to records. It's probably best to be a bit cautious re. Elizabeth Teagle as there seems to be quite a few about in the Bucks/Beds area.
-
I did come across Jane in the Asylum Admissions Registers on Anc.com but didn't make the connection. She was admitted 3 times. In 1854 for 8 mths, in 1857 for 7 mths and then in 1860 till she dies 22 Sept 1862. I find this very sad.
That certainly looks right but that death date in 1862 didn't tally with the likely looking GRO reference though:
1864 Q3 Death - Jane Hutton 59 (est b1805); Biggleswade 03b 221
But looking at the image I think the Ancestry transcription of 1862 may be wrong, and that it's actually 22 Sep 1864, which would match the GRO reference.
-
Something just hit me!! Regarding the Gaol registers Cuffie pointed to for James Hutton from his age recorded there he was born born in Crawley 1814 or 1824) ..... so, what if this James Hutton is actually Henry JAMES Cooper Hutton born 1824??????
He got up to no end of nonsense in South Africa so it would come as no surprise to me.
I've ordered some of these docs.
Before we start casting slurs on HJC, there was a James Hutton baptised to Michael & Ann in Newport Pagnell in 1815. He seems like a better fit for the 'noted poacher' and to the James Hutton who was in the County House of Correction in Bedford on the 1841 census (age 25, est b1816-1821). As for HJC, on the 1841 census there's a Henry Hutton in nearby Husborne Crawley (age 14, est b1827), which could be him.
The last newspaper reference to James Hutton I've found is in 1846, charged with stealing turnips tops.
-
I do apologise Cuffie. I got carried away there with HJC. And yes, I also had the Henry age 14 living in Husborne Crawley as HJC. He is more likely to be Henry, son of John Hutton, Farmer, fined for trespassing against the game laws and not appearing to the summons ( he was only 16)(Bedfordshire Mercury 15 July 1843) (your reply 65).
-
Sue.
I managed to get to Aspley, Wavendon and Woburn Sands Churches over the Easter holidays.
No luck with Hutton graves except one a much later date.
Sandy
-
I have just re-read this thread to try and work out the 2 Johns.
My lineage is through John and Elizabeth Cripps and their son Frederick
who committed suicide. Therefore my line coming down though Kitty Hutton
is correct.
I found a James Hutton going to Australia in 1848 from H. Crawley.
I also just paid £25 for the death certificate of Henry Hutton son of John and
Elizabeth Cripps, which has thrown another mystery into the pot.
I have also re-made contact with one of the researchers that I was in
contact with in 1991 (wrongly I thought he had passed away).
Sandy
-
Hi Sandy
Thanks for more input. Just got home after a 5000 km road trip. I'll respond and will be in contact as soon as I have settled................:)
-
Lovely to hear you are back safe from your trip Sue. :)
Thanks also for the e-mails also, now rest awhile.
Sandy
-
I have now been able to find out quite a bit about Adam Hutton and his family.
Although sometimes it is a struggle the family is growing daily. :)
Sandy
-
I have confirmed info for Adam Hutton and his lineage in South Africa. The main lineage is
Adam Hutton 1823-1893, Eliza Ann Freshwater who he divorced.
John Hutton 1860-1920, Edith Annie Smith.
John Arthur 1897-1978, Myrtle Irene Wood.
Although I have the 2 final lineages the folk are still living so can not be posted here.
Maybe of help to any other Huttons rellies who may join Rootschat.
Sandy
-
I was just looking through Wavendon burials and noticed a Elizabeth Hutton wife of John
aged 32 dying 1824. Interesting as said they were of Aspley.
Looking a bit further on John husband of Elizabeth died aged 45 in 1831.
This would make John born 1786 and Elizabeth 1792. Possibly John and Elizabeth Cripps ?.
-
Very interesting. I think you may have found them Sandy.
We don't have exact birth dates for Adam and Arthur, youngest children of John Hutton oo Elizabeth Cripps. Estimates from Census records puts Adam at about 1825 and Arthur at about 1827. However Adam Hutton's Death Notice in South Africa in 1893 states he is 70 and Arthur's in Australia in 1898 states he is 75. These dates 1823, and possible 1824 are a better estimate and fit with the above couple.
I always thought it possible that Elizabeth died at or soon after the birth of her last child Arthur. Which is why the children are all found living with their Aunts Susannah and Mary, daughters of Michael Hutton, in the 1841 Census.
John son of Michael Hutton oo Elizabeth was baptised in Wavendon in 1788.
Well done Sandy!
-
HI Sue.
I think we have Frederick born 1819, and Henry 1820, Caroline 1821, and Adam 1823
but what about Arthur. The death date for Elizabeth would be earlier ? Of course folk
weren't so particular about ages in the time period so maybe Arthur was 1824 ?
I don't want to say I am right as the baptisms for them all in Aspley was in 1826.
Also the 1841 census has different ages too. The fact both parents could have been
dead by 1841 is a possibility.
Sandy
-
For what it's worth I reckon you've found them Sandy.
If this isn't the same couple then it'd mean there's yet another John and Elizabeth Hutton of a similar age in the same area. It would also mean that this couple appear without trace (unless someone can find a marriage for them) and the parents of Adam and his siblings have still gone missing without trace; that seems unlikely.
I had another quick look for Elizabeth Cripps in Cranfield but there's no obvious baptism record at all in the BFHS surname index. There's a few Cripps couples in Cranfield but none seem likely parents of Elizabeth but it's not a given that she was actually born/raised in Cranfield, and could have just been living there at the time of her marriage.
Cripps couples in Cranfield:
Richard Purratt? Cripps & Sarah Chapman
Married: 1797 Bletsoe; Richard of Cranfield; (lic)
Richard baptised 1777 Cranfield to Edward and Eleanor
Richard recorded as a yeoman/farmer in baptism records
William Cripps & Mary White
Married: 1800 Cranfield, both minors; (lic)
William recorded as a yeoman/farmer baptism records
Edward Cripps & Eleanor Parks
Married: 1774 Cranfield; (lic)
It looks as if Edward died by 1782 and Eleanor remarried to John Odell in 1785.
So going by the marriage and likely deaths dates for these, none are a good fit for Elizabeth's parents. It's not much use I know but it may help to rule some possible parents out.
-
Both Adam and Arthurs' births calculated from their ages given at death (never that reliable!) are about 1823. So if Adam was born say late 1822/early 1823, Arthur could have been born early in 1824 up to when his mother died in the April.
The children were all baptised together later in 1826 in St Botolphs in Aspley Guise. William Hutton, their Uncle, and his family, seem to be the only one of Michael Hutton (the children's grandfather)'s family attending that church - I noticed that as I worked through the films of the church books. William Hutton became the Church Clerk if I remember correctly. I suspect the most of Williams siblings attended St Mary's, Wavendon.
..........I can't wait to look at the Wavendon film.
Joseph Hutton, his second wife Sarah, his son John and Grandson Henry James Cooper are all recorded in the St Botolphs church books.
-
Thanks for your input cuffie81.
I have just looked at the Electoral Registers but they don't start till 1832 :(
I am trawling the newspaper at the mo.
Sandy
-
Sue I have e-mailed you the Wavendon burials for Elizabeth and John.
-
Thanks for that Cuffie81 - I would like to follow the Cripps line sometime.
A Mary Cripps is a witness at John Hutton and Elizabeth Cripps marriage - I think you noted that before.
Sue
PS Got them Sandy. Thanks very much!
-
I didn't find out anything of interest.
I look forward to the images you send you would send me too Sue. :)
Sandy
-
Hi Sandy
Well, you've already found the best info.
Once my Huttons leave town tonight I'll be able to spend some time on editing images and sorting files.
Please email me to remind me what's outstanding.
Sue
-
Will do Sue and I can sort out some more for yourself too.
Thank you. Sandy
-
I think this story gets more complex as I find out more info on the family.
Frederick (1819) who committed suicide in 1892 in later became a member of the Primitive Methodist.
On the marriage certificate at Wavendon in 1824, James Hutton married Mary Bunting (and signed as such) yet the Vicar noted her name as Sarah Bunting.
On a death certificate I have in 1845 James Hutton (Publican) wife Elizabeth dies at Aspley.
One of Robert and Caroline Bailey's son's father-in-law ran the Station Hotel which was in competition with the Weathercock Inn.
Robert farmed land called Deeth farm beside the Weathercock Inn.
Frederick above lived in Cherry Tree Cottage so it good to know the actual place as on the
censuses it is not noted.
It all adds to the story of their lives.
Sandy
-
Just an up-date.
Imanaged to get copies of the marriages for James Tegle & Mary Walker, Michael & Eliz Teagle, Michael & Ann Grimett, Elizabeth Tegles bap and bur for Michael Hutton son of Michael and Ann at Newport Pagnell.
Sandy
-
Well done Sandy.
:)
-
Okay folks it is time for a humble apology.
I have looked thoroughly at the 5 pages sent to me years ago and other information I have found in the last week and am now certain that my lineage IS NOT John Hutton and Elizabeth Cripps.
Therefore I can only say I hope the research I did was of some help to the direct and correct lineage and not a waste of my time or in-correct on the above family.
I myself delved into the South African records and learnt how to search what I found was un-believably difficult resources to our own in England.
My friend who I met is the 3rd great grandchild of Michael Hutton and Elizabeth Teagle and I at least have a photo of us together from years ago as he passed away quite a few years ago after it was taken.
As I said to another Rootschatter the other day I have hunch if I am wrong I will eat my hat.
This time it is a large one.
Cheers Sandy
-
Hi Sandy
Well, I'd like to say here that all who have contributed to this thread following my request for information on the Hutton family, but you especially Sandy, have helped tremendously. It's been an incredible journey of discovery, full of twists and turns. Any Hutton in South Africa, descended either from Adam Hutton or Henry James Cooper Hutton, who stumbles across this thread in the future is going to be very lucky.
My soon to arrive Hutton Granddaughter, direct descendant of Adam, might not appreciate the info for awhile yet but I'll be making sure she does in the future.
It's a small world though, my husband worked with a direct descendant of HJC some years ago. He even asked me at the time if this man was connected to my son-in-law's family. He wasn't, but we only know that now.
So Sandy, your research has all been very well worth while and very much appreciated.
Sue
-
Yesterday I was very kindly given 18 pages from the Will Smith book of the lineage of Adam Hutton in South Africa. It would have saved me a lot of time if I had it first. :)
It was good to see that the genealogy report I shared with Sue was correct.
As we have both said we would carry on tracing the lines of Adam myself and Sue, Henry James Cooper Hutton although there is no known link, every link I try and make gets me no where.
I find facebook groups that could help me can not because the family in South Africa is not my direct line.
I am glad in England that family tree information is shared freely not hidden behind a closed group.
Sandy
-
I will try scan the pages at the back of the book which has the lineage of the Huttons for you tomorrow. Might be something in there you can use.
-
Thank you Derek would be much appreciated again.
Sandy
-
Congratulations on your new grand-child.
Another branch to the Hutton tree.
Sandy
-
Thanks so much Sandy!
Thought the same thing myself....:)
-
Hi, just picked up on the Cherry Tree Cottage mention, a lot of the deeds for that building are stored at Beds Archives, under X395/93 to /97. Lots of Hutton mentions....
-
Hi, just picked up on the Cherry Tree Cottage mention, a lot of the deeds for that building are stored at Beds Archives, under X395/93 to /97. Lots of Hutton mentions....
Thanks very much! I'll take a look if I can.
Sue
-
I had to look all the way through the pages to find Cherry Tree Cottage on Page 12 of 13 lol.
Depending how many pages I suppose the Archives might photo-copy them at a price of course.
Sandy
-
These seems to be the links noted by Hogsty.
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110489588
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110489590
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110489588
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110489596
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110489598
-
Just a quick up-date.
I have just ordered some of the records noted by cuffie81 (thank you) from the Bedfordshire Archives (£38.00 for an hour's research) for Henry James Cooper Hutton and Elizabeth (possibly his mother) death in 1851 besides the will mentioning my 4th Great grandmother Kitty (Sibley) Hutton. I also found a coroner's report that made sad reading about Margaret Wishart who married Arthur Hutton and her baptism in Ireland in 1836. So it goes on.
Sandy
-
Hi All.
If anyone wishes to see Durban newspapers on line for 1855-1899 they have just arrived on FindMyPast. Henry J C Hutton is on quite a few.
Sandy