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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Stanwix England on Sunday 19 March 17 23:14 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I'm looking to the experts for help in finding a 3rd Great Aunt of mine.
Her name at birth was Isabell or Isabella Harrison, she was born December 1853 in Leeds and baptised in Potternewton in Leeds. The family are often recorded as being in Chapel Allerton, Leeds (which is walking distance away).
I have records of her on every census from 1861 to 1901 but I can't find her in 1911. As far as I am aware she spent her entire life in the Leeds area.
I believe that in January 1875 she married a Benjamin Newill in Leeds. According to what I have gleaned from census and baptism records between them they had at least 10 children.
- Walter Newill b 1875
- Hannah Newill b 1876
- Mary Elizabeth Newill b 1878
- Percy Newill b 1880 died 4 months later
- Ethel Newill b 1882
- Benjamin Newill b 1886
- William Newill b 1887
- Herbert Newill b 1889
- Mabel Newill b 1895
- Maud Newill b 1897
It seems that at some point before 1901 her Benjamin Newill dies, because on the 1901 census she is listed as a widow.
Now this is the bit were it diversifies off and it could be that I've made a mistake.
I think that on 16 May 1906 she marries again, to a Albert Elliott in Buslingthorpe, Leeds (again walking distance to Potternewton and Chapel Allerton). The age fits and father's name (William Harrison) all fit. The only difference is that they describe him as a builder, when he was at various times described as being a stone mason or stone delver, but I don't think those two things are that dissimilar.
The next time I found a record of her was in 1912, a burial record for Leeds Beckett cemetery where it says an Isabella Elliott wife of Albert was buried in November of that year. Apparently she died in the Union Infirmary.
Try as I might I can't find her on the 1911 census. I've tried under all her possible surnames, but with no luck.
My only clue was when I researched her second husband, Albert Elliott. On the 1911 census there is an Albert Elliott in prison in Armley. The age is about right.
I searched the papers and found mention of 2 Albert Elliotts involved in court cases in November/December 1910. One of these men was involved in a court case accused of assault against a step-daughter, but I can find no further details about what happened, whether it went to trial and what the outcome was. I have no way to prove that was or wasn't him. So that is possibly a factor, but it might be a totally different person and completely unrelated.
I've followed Isabella's children as far as I can. I've found about half of them on the 1911 census but Isabella is not with any of them. Her youngest daughter Maud appears to have ended up at a Barnados in Essex, of all places.
The only children I haven't followed to 1911 are Mabel Newill, Herbert Newill, Mary Elizabeth Newill and Hannah Newill, so it's possible that she is with them, but I'm having trouble determining where they ended up.
Thank you for reading.
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Can you find Isabella Harrison in 1911?
Wasn't she Elliott by 1911?
Sorry - 1911 lookups are not allowed
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355486.0.html
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Hi Ilona
as mentioned, Rootschat poicy hasn't changed with regards to the 1911 census, but it might be worth looking to see if you can find the Union Infirmary records for her admission and discharge and do an address search from those details.
It might also be worth contacting the Friends of Beckett Road cemetery and ask if plot 10094 is a private or public grave and if private who else might be buried in it.
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Hi,
Sorry I totally forgot about the 1911 rule. :-[
Thanks for the help anyway everyone, all useful advice.
Thank you,
Ilona
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Could you get to your local library to use Ancestry/ FindMyPast there perhaps? I wonder if she might possibly be in the workhouse/ hospital in April 1911, esp if husband is is banged up in Armley.
Stitch
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Residents of the WH - both hospital and other areas - were recorded in 1911 under full names. However - if she were possibly in a mental institution, she would probably be recorded under her initials only
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Thank you both.
Luckily I do have an ancestry subscription, I've just had no luck finding her. I've tried all sorts of combinations and tricks, missing out names, all her different married names and so on, but no luck.
I'm currently wading through the Leeds Union Workhouse census for 1911. There are pages of it and some of it is really badly transcribed even though the handwriting is pretty good. For example one person I think might be a Sarah is transcribed as 'Seesaw' so I'm hoping that she's in there and her name just hasn't come out well.
It seems likely she was there given when she was buried.
I shall keep pressing on!
Thanks again everyone. :)
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It might also be worth contacting the Friends of Beckett Road cemetery and ask if plot 10094 is a private or public grave and if private who else might be buried in it.
10094 is unfortunately a common grave with no other Elliott buried there
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I searched the papers and found mention of 2 Albert Elliotts involved in court cases in November/December 1910. One of these men was involved in a court case accused of assault against a step-daughter, but I can find no further details about what happened, whether it went to trial and what the outcome was. I have no way to prove that was or wasn't him. So that is possibly a factor, but it might be a totally different person and completely unrelated.
It was definitely the same Albert Elliott. The charge was "unlawfully and carnally knowing a certain imbecile girl named Mabel Newell, under circumstances that do not amount to rape but which prove that the defendant knew at the time of the commission of the said offence that the said girl was imbecile, at Leeds, on 15 July 1910 and on divers (sic) former days". Sentenced to 12 months hard labour. Previous offences include 22 times drunk, assault police etc from 1882.
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It might also be worth contacting the Friends of Beckett Road cemetery and ask if plot 10094 is a private or public grave and if private who else might be buried in it.
10094 is unfortunately a common grave with no other Elliott buried there
If you find out where in the cemetery the plot is, I don't mind tootling down and taking a photo for you. If she's in one of the "guinnea graves" she'll be on the headstone - with a couple of dozen others.
Stitch
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The only children I haven't followed to 1911 are Mabel Newill, Herbert Newill, Mary Elizabeth Newill and Hannah Newill, so it's possible that she is with them, but I'm having trouble determining where they ended up.
Search for Mabel under Newell, aged 18
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Herbert Newell (sic) may possibly be working as a miner near Llanelly?
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Looking at my copy of Leeds burials, no headstone listed.
Brian
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Common or public graves rarely, almost never, have individual headstones.
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Morning everyone,
Well what a sad story this is turning out to be. :(
Thank you for all of your help and hints.
I'm Leeds based too Stitch so I will be able to visit the guinnea graves myself to see if she is included, but thank you for the offer. :)
I'm sorry to have brought you all such a depressing story. I've been a member of this forum for a few years and I've brought you tales of bigamy and spousal abuse in the past, and now this! :o
Most of my family are lovely, honest!
I suppose this could explain why Isabella drops of the radar. I'm wondering that if she wasn't already in the workhouse by 1911, as I can't seem to find her, if she may have started going by a false name to avoid association with all of this?
I don't really know what to say, it's just deeply sad all round.
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Have you seen the actual death certificate - who registered the death? If it was one of the Workhouse staff and she was registered under the name of Elliott, then I guess she hadn't changed her name.
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No I haven't seen the death certificate. I think that will have to wait for a while, just bought a few and can't really justify it this month. I'll update when I do get it.
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Following up from this, can anyone help me find her daughter Mary Elizabeth Newill in 1901? Are you allowed to do that for 1901?
From marriage banns later in that year where she marries a William Dobson in November 1901 in Potternewton, it appears that she is living at 3 Wellhouse Square (or that is my reading of it) and working as a domestic servant. I don't know if she is living with the people she works for, or if Wellhouse Square is another place.
I've found this list of Leeds streets. There is no Wellhouse Square on there (nor can I find one on a modern map), but there is a Wellhouses, so that seems to make sense.
I can't seem to turn that up on the 1901 census though. I've tried searching for just that street name and I can't find that either.
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Well Houses is near Marsh Lane goods station.
In the Richmonds area of Leeds.
Brian
As you say - No Wellhouse Square listed on the 1891 map of Leeds!
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The 1901 address is where Isabella was living - 3 Well House Square, RG13/4248/98/5
Isabel Newill 47
Ether Ethel 18
Willie 14
Mabel 6
Maud 4
Nellie Harrison 22
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Well House Square is/was in Potter Newton, Leeds, just off Potternewton Lane. The impression I get is that it was somewhere behind no 40 (ish). That number doesn't exist any more. The old Shoulder of Mutton (now Inkwell Arts) is no 31, but the property opposite is 74. I'm guessing therefore that Well House Square was on that side of the road, towards the traffic lights. Probably where those little courts of new houses are.
Isabel Newill is at no 3 in 1901, with the Ethel, Willie, Mabel and Maud plus a visitor, Nellie Harrison. No ME that night. Could Mary Elizabeth be living-in in service anywhere? I've tried a lot of variations and sneaky tricks but I can't find her. What address does William give for the banns?
Stitch
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Well Houses is near Marsh Lane goods station.
In the Richmonds area of Leeds.
Brian
As you say - No Wellhouse Square listed on the 1891 map of Leeds!
Except for the more recently-built (just) ones backing onto Roundhay Rd between the Astoria and Tesco's.
See my other post - searching the 1901 by address turned up Well House Square in Potter Newton.
Stitch
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See my other post - searching the 1901 by address turned up Well House Square in Potter Newton.
Perhaps my earlier post giving the same information was invisible ;) ;D
What address does William give for the banns?
William gives 43 Sackville Street, but the only William Dobson at that address in 1901 is enumerated as aged 66.
ADDED: The witnesses to the marriage are Thomas James West & Mary Ann West, and going back to 43 Sackville Street shows the head as Thomas J West & his wife... not Mary Ann but Sarah Jane :-\
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Well Houses is near Marsh Lane goods station.
In the Richmonds area of Leeds.
Brian
As you say - No Wellhouse Square listed on the 1891 map of Leeds!
And on the 1901 census there are fourteen houses on it, just off Potternewton Lane. I know. I've read the census pages. Do you think it might have been built between 1891 and 1901, demolished probably mid-to-late late 20th century?
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Thanks for the help everybody, you are all so good at this. :o
How do you turn up a street in your search results? I tried putting the street name into Ancestry and got nothing.
I did think she might be on the census as her in service place, but I have also failed to turn her up and I've tried a few combinations.
Oh well at least I know where the house was now.
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How do you turn up a street in your search results? I tried putting the street name into Ancestry and got nothing.
Unfortunately Ancestry doesn't have this facility.