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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Breconshire => Wales => Breconshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: JenNZL on Wednesday 22 March 17 22:20 GMT (UK)
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Hi there,
I'm trying to track down the marriage details for my GGG grandparents Thomas Davies (b. 1816 ish) Builth, Breconshire, and his wife Elizabeth ?? (b. 1820 ish.), Radnorshire, Llanfaredd, (though some census records show "Disserth")
I have them both on census records from 1851 - 1881, then Thomas as a widower on 1891.
I'm not sure if there are any traditional naming patterns in Wales, but if it helps their children were:
Elizabeth b 1841
James b 1849 (big gap, right?)
Ann b 1851
Sarah (or maybe Janet? hard to read) b. 1855 ish
Thomas b 1855 ish
Roger b 1859 ish
I found a marriage between Thomas Davies and Elizabeth Jones in 1834, but that would put Elizabeth at age 14 getting married, which seemed a bit much (though there's that big gap between the first two children ?? )
(The family has a lodger named Jane Jones living with them in 1851, also.)
Any help much appreciated :-) I had no idea Davies would be such a challenging name to unravel in Wales...they're everywhere!
Jen
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Hi Jen
there is a marriage on 6th September 1841 between Thomas Davies and Elizabeth Hamer in the church of Llanfair, Builth. Both are full age; Thomas is a glazier and Elizabeth is a servant.
Thomas' father is James Davies - a cooper.
Elizabeth's father is Edward Hamer - a farmer.
Witnesses are Sarah Davies and Abraham Bound
Hope this helps
Mar :)
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Thank you! That's fabulous - I'm inclined to think it's him. He's a glazier on all the census records we have, and the dates work well.
I wonder why this one didn't come up in any of my ancestry or familysearch searches? Do you have any particular suggestions for searching for records in this area of Wales? I'd love to trace both families back further if I can.
Thanks again, that's broken down a long-standing brick wall :-) For a while there it seemed like everyone in Builth was called Thomas Davies, and they all married an Elizabeth ;-)
Jen
PS is there a site on which i can view a scan of the original document for this?
**edited to add...I just did another search on familysearch.org and it came up. Weird....wonder why it didn't the first time. Probably user error ;-)
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Hi Jen, the original image is in the Powys marriages of FindMyPast; it may be on other sites as well but I only have access to this one site.
I'm afraid I can't share here as it will infringe copyright :-\
I can see a possible baptism for 9th July 1815 in the parish of Llanvair, Builth for a Thomas Davies son of James and Anne, abode - Bank, occupation of father - cooper
Mar
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Just to confirm marriage, the GRO index shows mother's maiden name as Hamer on the birth registration of Roger Davies dec qtr 1858 Builth vol 11b pg 90. He was baptised 15 Dec 1858 in Builth, son of Thomas, glazier, & Elizabeth.
;)
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There's a baptism in Llanfair in Builth 25 Dec 1838 for Elizabeth Hamer aged 18 and a servant, daughter of Edward & Elizabeth.
There are also baptisms at Horeb Congregational in Builth for
James Hamer born 19 may 1832, bp 24 Jun 1832 son of Edward, labourer, & Elizabeth, address Cwmprofit, Disert
Mary bp 18 Nov 1823 daughter of Edward address Penwain, Llanvareth
1841 census Penddole, Llanelwedd, Radnorshire HO107/1453/9 folio 6 pg 7
Elizabeth Hanmer 45
Elizabeth 19
James 9
Sarah 5
all born in county
1851 Bank, Bulth HO107/2488 folio 261 pg 13
Elizabeth Hanmer head widow 56 laundress b. Llanyre, Radnorshire
Mary dau 25 b. Llanfaredd, Radnorshire
Mary 3 grand dau b. Llanelwedd, Radnorshire
Edward Bardeley lodger 83 gentlema b. Nottingham St Peters
Possible marriage of Edward Hanmur of Llandrindod and Elizabeth Bound of Llanyre 25 Dec 1815 in Llanyre, witnesses Hugh Prichard & Moses Bound, Edward's signature look more like Hammar.
Also a baptism in Llanyre 25 March 1816 of Moses Hamer, son of Edward & Elizabeth.
And a burial of Moses Bound aged 67 28 Jan 1830.
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forgot to give you the death reg for Edward Hamer june qtr 1838 Builth vol 26 pg 217 aged 48 on GRO index.
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Hi Jen, the original image is in the Powys marriages of FindMyPast; it may be on other sites as well but I only have access to this one site.
I'm afraid I can't share here as it will infringe copyright :-\
I can see a possible baptism for 9th July 1815 in the parish of Llanvair, Builth for a Thomas Davies son of James and Anne, abode - Bank, occupation of father - cooper
Mar
Hi,
Thank you - That sounds likely too. Thomas is living in Bank Square (though at different street / house numbers) throughout all the census records that I have.
These Welsh records seem to be rather variable in their availability - despite putting in the exact parameters of Thomas / Elizabeth's marriage, nothing comes up at all in Ancestry, nor in MyHeritage, where I also have a subscription. (and familysearch.org links through to findmypast. Wonder why the docs are there but don't appear to be elsewhere?)
Thanks again for your help :-)
J
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There's a baptism in Llanfair in Builth 25 Dec 1838 for Elizabeth Hamer aged 18 and a servant, daughter of Edward & Elizabeth.
There are also baptisms at Horeb Congregational in Builth for
James Hamer born 19 may 1832, bp 24 Jun 1832 son of Edward, labourer, & Elizabeth, address Cwmprofit, Disert
Mary bp 18 Nov 1823 daughter of Edward address Penwain, Llanvareth
1841 census Penddole, Llanelwedd, Radnorshire HO107/1453/9 folio 6 pg 7
Elizabeth Hanmer 45
Elizabeth 19
James 9
Sarah 5
all born in county
1851 Bank, Bulth HO107/2488 folio 261 pg 13
Elizabeth Hanmer head widow 56 laundress b. Llanyre, Radnorshire
Mary dau 25 b. Llanfaredd, Radnorshire
Mary 3 grand dau b. Llanelwedd, Radnorshire
Edward Bardeley lodger 83 gentlema b. Nottingham St Peters
Possible marriage of Edward Hanmur of Llandrindod and Elizabeth Bound of Llanyre 25 Dec 1815 in Llanyre, witnesses Hugh Prichard & Moses Bound, Edward's signature look more like Hammar.
Also a baptism in Llanyre 25 March 1816 of Moses Hamer, son of Edward & Elizabeth.
And a burial of Moses Bound aged 67 28 Jan 1830.
Thanks so much! That's fabulous :-)
That's old for a baptism, isn't it? Or did that sort of thing happen all the time? Maybe they forgot to get around to it, then realised when she was approaching marriageable age? We can but wonder...
J
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it could be that she'd also been baptised like her siblings in a non-conformist church but she chose to be baptised in the Anglican Church. As not all non-conformist records survive or are online, there's no way to be sure.
FindMyPast has many parish records from Wales, they have the contract. They are also indexed on FamilySearch.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01js1/
There's an amount transcribed on FreeReg as well, including some non-conformist. That's where I found the Horeb records.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/
But there isn't one site which has everything.
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it could be that she'd also been baptised like her siblings in a non-conformist church but she chose to be baptised in the Anglican Church. As not all non-conformist records survive or are online, there's no way to be sure.
FindMyPast has many parish records from Wales, they have the contract. They are also indexed on FamilySearch.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01js1/
There's an amount transcribed on FreeReg as well, including some non-conformist. That's where I found the Horeb records.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/
But there isn't one site which has everything.
Ahh...fascinating. So does that mean that the marriage between Thomas and Elizabeth in 1841 was also in an Anglican church? Or just her baptism?
Interesting if so...would be the first bit of C of E I've encountered in any branch of our family tree to date - they all seemed to be Presbyterian through and through for generations back.
Thanks for your help too re. location of Welsh records - I had no idea the contracts for them were held by different places. Will keep findmypast in mind if I need to go looking further.
Thanks again for your help, everyone :-) I thought I wasn't going to get any further with the Welsh side of the family so it's really exciting to see these discoveries.
Jx
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the 1841 marriage was in the parish church, so anglican.In England & Wales, from Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1754 until civil registration started in July 1837, marriages had to take place in a parish church except for Quakers & Jews. From civil registration, marriages could take place in a non-conformist church but a registrar had to be present. This was the case until the 1890s.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/nonconformists/
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Thank you :-)
Excuse my ignorance, but are you saying that if something is called a "Parish Church" then it's necessarily Anglican? I didn't realise that, if so. (or perhaps I've misunderstood your comment.)
Thanks also for that informative link - super helpful.
I've been up to my elbows exploring the Scottish side of the family, so I'm not so familiar with the English / Welsh system of documentation. This is all great stuff to know :-)
Cheers,
Jen
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in Wales at that time, a parish church would be Anglican/C of E as that was the established church. The Church in Wales was disestablished by the Welsh Church Act 1914
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_in_Wales