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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Desidog on Thursday 23 March 17 22:55 GMT (UK)
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Hi there,
Iam looking for help on finding information on,or anyone related to my step grandfather, who was Richard Arthur Elliott, (whom I never knew), born 8.2.23 Bishops Storford, died 1986 Birmingham. He was married several times, having a number of children. Richard married my nan in Birmingham in 1975. Any information on his life, from birth, would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.
Jon
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Here is his birth - with mother's maiden name of King
Births Mar 1923
Elliott Richard A King
B.Stortford
3a 1246
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Have you identified his parents and siblings, and looked for their subsequent families?
Are you in contact with any children/grandchildren from any of his marriages?
Have you found him on the 1939 census?
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Hi and welcome
You need to start with his birth registration on freebmd which shows his mothers maiden name as King www.freebmd.org.uk
Births March qtr 1923
Richard A Elliott mmn King Bishop Stortford 3a 1246
You then look for a marriage between Elliott/King but there are too many possibilities so you will need to buy a copy of his birth cert to establish his parents christian names
www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Do you have access to a copy of the 1975 marriage cert as that will show his fathers name?
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The problem is that he was born after the last available census, so as the others have said, if you want to work backwards you will need to get his birth certificate to make sure that you follow the right family. I can't see him on the 1939 register.
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Are these his parents?
Marriages Dec 1917
Arthur G Elliott London C 1c 19
Frances L G King London C 1c 19
Added:
In Somerset in 1939.
Added:
Probate for Arthur Godfrey in 1952
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It's a possibility for his parents marriage but you need the birth cert to be sure of their names
In case it is the right marriage it was 29.10.1917 at St Ethelburga Bishopsgate
Arthur Godfrey Elliott aged 38 bachelor Army officer father Robert John Elliott clerk in holy orders (deceased)
Frances Lucy Gaye King aged 36 spinster father William Affleck King Army officer (Deceased)
Witnesses George Robert Brewis & Laurie ???
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If is correct parents, she would be 'oldish' at his birth.
Probate for her in 1968.
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There are a lot of Elliott/King marriages though within a time period that would fit, so I agree with Carole, it would be dangerous to follow any without being sure. It depends whether he was named after his father or not!
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Think it is correct family, unless there is another Richard Arthur born in 1923
Richard Arthur Elliott Born February 1923
Christened 3rd March 1923 at Thorley, Hertfordshire
Father Arthur Godfrey Elliott
Mother Frances Lucy Gaye Elliott
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Think it is correct family, unless there is another Richard Arthur born in 1923
Richard Arthur Elliott Born February 1923
Christened 3rd March 1923 at Thorley, Hertfordshire
Father Arthur Godfrey Elliott
Mother Frances Lucy Gaye Elliott
Now you've found that I tend to agree, well done.
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There are 6 trees on Ancestry which include this couple and none show that any children were born to them so well done for finding that baptism
Frances died in Oxfordshire in 1968
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According to a private tree on Ancestry, Arthur Godfrey Elliot earned the Military Cross - Awarded for Conspicuous Gallantry. So there may be something on line about him.
Added: Lt. Arthur Godfrey Elliott - Awarded The Military Cross - The London Gazette - 11 Jan 1919
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Thank you everyone for such quick replies and all the information you have provided. I have been able to establish some of his background and early life information and all that you provided is correct. Only this week we found the name of sibling of his whom we didn't know about (Elizabeth Elliott)
I didn't know Richard, as we were in different countries and I was too young to know what was going on. Now both my parents have passed, so I don't have any living relatives to help me.
I know Richard was an Etonian, had a civil wife, Joyce, which produced a son towards the end of the war. He also later had a legal wife, Esther, which produced 3 children, which I have names for and birth dates for the 2 youngest. This family moved to Canada in 1952-3, with his family returning to the UK without him in 1957.
If anyone is related to Richard, or knows about his life with either family, and is happy to share details, I would be very interested. Also, from 1957 to 1975 (when he married my nan), I have not been able to trace Richard.
Thank you again.
Cheers
Jon
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and all that you provided is correct.
So you already had details of his parents - is that correct?
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Hang on...
Richard Arthur Elliott with DOB of 8 Feb 1923 died in Westminster in Mar qtr 1971.
So how did he remarry in 1975 ???
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Opening post says 1986 Birmingham and there is a death there with same dob - 8.2.1923
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Opening post says 1986 Birmingham and there is a death there with same dob - 8.2.1923
So I see. I wonder what the 1971 death registration is all about then.
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Maybe this birth and 3rd c/n omitted from death reg
March qtr 1923
Elliott Richard A J mmn Shrubsall Southwark 1d 168
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Yes 'my' Richard Arthur Elliott (born 8.2.23 Bishops Stortford) died in 1986 in Birmingham was cremated and laid to rest there also.
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Maybe this birth and 3rd c/n omitted from death reg
March qtr 1923
Elliott Richard A J mmn Shrubsall Southwark 1d 168
This one appears to have been named exactly after his father Richard Alfred John Elliott (d. 1929).
Death of the son: Richard A J Elliott aged 36, Mar qtr 1959 Camberwell.
Probate shows his names in full as Richard Alfred John Elliott.
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Definitely odd. No Richard A El*iot* born 1922 or 1924 to allow for an error when his death was registered
What bothers me is that the various trees on Ancestry have info on both parents but none mention any children born to the marriage.
Can Desidog confirm that the 1975 marriage cert shows fathers names as Arthur Godfrey?
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It looks as though Arthur Godfrey Elliott and Frances had a daughter Anne H Elliott - mmn showing as Kings [sic], in Kensington in 1920. She was with them pre-war.
Death as Anne Hynde Elliott, DOB 28 Mar 1920, in Oxford in 2002. She was an Emeritus Fellow of St Hilda's College, Oxford:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/gazette/2002-3/weekly/071102/coll.htm
However, as an undergraduate she seems to have been at St Hugh's:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/gazette/2002-3/weekly/141102/coll.htm
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Thanks again everyone.
The Richard Arthur Elliott we are looking for definitely had the parents of Arthur Godfrey and Frances Lucy. We have an original birth extract that has his birth as 8.2.23, Bishops Stortford. We have also purchased a copy of his original birth certificate, which confirms the parents as above.
We have just found the information on his sister Ann Hynde, so thank you for that. She was certainly was a student at St Hughes at that time, but may have been home on term break when the census was done. This week have also just found a second sister, Elizabeth, whom we know nothing more about.
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Hi Desidog
From info found - there appears to be 2 Richard Arthur Elliott's born on the same day - one died in 1971 and yours in 1986
My "niggle" is whether you are researching the right one. None of us have found a birth reg for the other Richard Arthur which is why I am being cautious.
Yes - you have a birth cert etc and obviously that gives parents names. However - are you absolutely certain you have the right birth cert? Did you already know about his 2 sisters before info on them was found here?
If your information is based solely on what has been found online then there is only one way to be absolutely certain. As asked in my earlier reply - does his 1975 marriage cert confirm his father's name as that found?
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We have an original birth extract that has his birth as 8.2.23, Bishops Stortford.
What exactly is this, where did it come from?
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Have you found Richard on 1939 census?
Arthur Godfrey and Frances Lucy are in Somerset, with 3 closed records.
As he would have been 16, and am Old Etonian, was he at school then?
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Going to Canada in 1953, from Bridgwater, Esther age 37, Richard age 30, 3 children.
Morthens was her maiden name from her children's births (one has Mortens), and this marriage to Richard:
Marriages March quarter 1949
Richard A Elliott Colchester
Esther Koren Colchester
Esther Morthens Colchester
When his wife and children returned in 1957 they were going to St Hilda's Oxford.
Added:
Esther Elliott appeared not to marry again, and died in Oxfordshire in 2003.
Is her probate under Edna Esther?
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Thank you all for the information that keeps coming in. We have certainly learnt some facts which we didn't have and had many others confirmed.
We found previously that Richard was an Etonian, but we don't know exactly when he was there.
We have also previously found that he, Esther and three children went to Canada, with Esther and the children returning alone to the Uk. We have not yet found when Richard returned, or when he and Esther divorced and what he was up to until 1975. We also have not been able to trace Esther and the children after they returned to Oxford.
We are looking into Esther's different surnames. Chempat what leads you to believe that Esther did not remarry?
Thanks again.
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This death :
Esther Elliott born 10th August 1916, died age 87 in December quarter 2004 in Oxfordshire.
Birth date as on incoming travel records in 1957