RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: marcie dean on Sunday 26 March 17 04:27 BST (UK)
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if we do not know if his dna is logged somewhere how do I prove my connections to him.?
apart from coming up to scotland and checking to see if any records exist at st.cuthberts church for the birth mother of my great grandad and that is only if they buried them seperately and logged the burial, as the workhouse records no longer exist and dunrobin are not holding any journals that may have existed only the countesses journals and papers.
when searching how do you find the dna that you are lookiing for as a match.?
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I can prove my relationship to alexander forbes, I can prove my relationship to the dukes of argyll and the clan chief of the time. because there is a line of decent noted /recorded. but without the workhouse records to prove what happened, if there are no dna records then I am stumped. the current duke is not a direct decendant to me he was a cousin of the duke, not his direct decendanteither, not as if he was a son illegitimate or his direct heir. so I cannot see that it can be proven that we are related. any ideas?dna is an area that I have no knowledge nor understanding.
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The simplest way would be to post the names and details of your great-grandfather and kin, then see what Rootschatters can turn up in the way of parish records.
Philip
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The simplest way would be to post the names and details of your great-grandfather and kin, then see what Rootschatters can turn up in the way of parish records.
There are many threads on this topic
A selection here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765951.msg6179055#msg6179055
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Marcie, not wishing to be mean or unkind. I have had a look at one of your many trees on Ancestry, and I think the best possible thing you can do is scrap them all and start again. This time with proven facts and certificates to back things up.
For one instance you have a John Laidlaw b 1872 in Leith and died 1923 in Edinburgh ,but you have a source for him as George Leveson Gower living in Westminster in 1918. ???
Was your gt gt grandmother really "Marjorycharles fergusonmcdonald baron brown mcdonald baron brown" You have a WW1 victory medal for one man who was born in 1911.
Your grandparents marriage clearly says grandma was Edna May Smith dau of George Smith and Janet MS Mason, but you have her parents as George Blanchard Steele and Janet OMay Smithor/ tongs.
Instead of banging on about being related to Duke's etc, finding DNA and all the rest. Trace the real people first, I am sure many on here including myself would be willing to help.
This is not posted to be nasty, but we are all wasting our time looking for these phantoms.
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tlarkspur, the duke of sutherland lived in clermiston house colinton when he married the countess of sutherland. he and my great grandfather john met prior to my grt grandfather dying in april 1923. my great grandfather joined up and spent some time in the same army that was the dukes the scots greys, so did my grandad.he(the duke), told my great great granddad that he was prepared to acknowledge him as his grandson.obviously, I was not there, but this is what was passed down info through the family.
my grandfather's mother was marjorie or spelt marjory charles(after adam charles,ferguson, mcdonald baron brown after her mothers fathers' mother elizabeth macdonald her father being james hutcheon but clerics misheard or mis-spelt it and it was written down as hutchison margaret forbes was to marry adam charles he was injured by the boom on his weaving machines and died before the vicar and margaret managed to get there, witness was his brother.she was pregnant at the time of the accident, seems to be a theme running through our family tree. the name baron is approx. 5/6 generations back from agnes hutcheon who marred robert brown and was my great grans marjorys' mother.
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larkspur, my great gran on my nana's side of the family, janet she was born on the 17th july1885. to parents alexander smith and janet O'May.I think that I am right in saying that her mother was margaret milloy or Malloy, whom I thought originally was born in scotland but since found a reference in ireland in the name of ms kilpatrick marrying a henry Malloy, then she arrives in scotland campbeltown and marries william O'May.I am going to check this because I have her mother down as janet campbell her brother ending up as the duke of argyll through flukes of antecedents not having any male heirs and passing the titles on to cousins etc. brother being hugh
janetO'May-smith was not a very nice person, her parents were base people not very high up on the social scale, she ran away from home to join the stage she was self obsessed, she was found and dragged back home, she lived in her head, she fantasised about her background, looking for a better life which I believe is why she took up with george steele as his family were into building, and were a lot better off they had a big house in a posh area of edinburgh and a posh car which was being manufactured at that time david mason lived nearby and he was just coming into his own politically, she preferred to think of that family as her own instead of a father who had started life as a quarryman.she was a snob and a fantasist.
because of her my nan ended up in care, and because she did not seem to have any parents was down on a list of children due to be moved to australia, newzealand and/or canada, but she ran away and found her grandparents who then contacted her mother and arranged for to take her on a train to meet her mother. who by this time had taken up with sydney, whom she married bigamousley in 1928.
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llarj=kspur, I know you mean well, but so that you know ,I have researched these trees and I have where I can have obtained certs etc. but due to my condition having suffered a stroke I cannot always remember the information to re-iterate it on rootschat.always open to assistance of any kind, thank you.marjorie loquet ne laidlaw
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Marcie, not wishing to be mean or unkind. I have had a look at one of your many trees on Ancestry, and I think the best possible thing you can do is scrap them all and start again. This time with proven facts and certificates to back things up.
For one instance you have a John Laidlaw b 1872 in Leith and died 1923 in Edinburgh ,but you have a source for him as George Leveson Gower living in Westminster in 1918. ???
Was your gt gt grandmother really "Marjorycharles fergusonmcdonald baron brown mcdonald baron brown" You have a WW1 victory medal for one man who was born in 1911.
Your grandparents marriage clearly says grandma was Edna May Smith dau of George Smith and Janet MS Mason, but you have her parents as George Blanchard Steele and Janet OMay Smithor/ tongs.
Instead of banging on about being related to Duke's etc, finding DNA and all the rest. Trace the real people first, I am sure many on here including myself would be willing to help.
This is not posted to be nasty, but we are all wasting our time looking for these phantoms.
my maiden name was X born X
my mother is june X born 1930's
her mother, was edna should have been steele except she was illegitimate so her name would/should have been edna o'may smith, born before they married 13th january my nan was born 23rd december 1911, registered on 15th january two days after the marriage to george blanchard steele of her mother janet o'may smith.1928 she has left george steele and is planning to marry sydney beauchamp tongs.
her birth was 17th.july 1885 to parents alexander smith and janet o'may.
does that clarify things?
my mums dad was
robert clermiston brown laidlaw, born august 1908 not sure on date either 3/or 4thI get confused because my mums younger brother was also born in august either the 4th or 5th, their firstborn son was robert smith laidlaw born july 1932 died before may/june 1933 not far off of his first his first birthday. my mum being born the following year, my grandads father being john adopted name laidlaw, after the couple(william laidlaw and margaret anne laing) that the church agreed could adopt him, his mother an unknown servant in the dukes household father suspected of being one of his two sons.my grandfathers mother being ms brown. (maiden name) full name being marjory charles ferguson mcdonald barron brown laidlaw. : the browns had their own burial site in the local churchyard.marjorys' mother was agnes hutcheon,her father was james hutcheon his mother was elizabeth mcdonald his father was john hutcheon marjory's' and john's first child was william walker laidlaw, her next child was agnes born I think in 1904 I think she marjory, was pregnant when they married she was pregnant and he was born not long after the marriage took place, not sure of that date. I will look up the birth dates of the others but I do know that marjory, my grandads sister died aged 15 years of consumption) and william was born not long after the couple married, but he died on the anniversary of their first anniversary alexander laidlaw was born I think 1912 and james the youngest must have been born 1918 as he was 10 years younger than himself(robert). lily I cant remember, but not far off of maregaret/peggys' birthday
Post edited details of living folk removedall are dead.except my mum and myself, I am not a fantasist I am a realist and these are not phantoms, they are my brick walls.
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larkspur these are not phantoms but my brickwalls, if I had had insight about this , premonition, I would have researched this more when I was in my twenties and the records were still available, the poorhouse records of st cuthbert's are now non-existent having been destroyed because 100 year + have floated by. I cannot help who my antecedents were, thats a fact of life but it is finding the proof that is now going to be the problem if you look at the census for scotland colinton you will see that levison-gower lived there at least in 1871 census if not afterwards.levison- gower was the duke of sutherland.
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and yes my grandfathers' mother was ms brown aka marjory charles ferguson mcdonald barron brown poor soul then to marry a laidlaw on top the charles name came into play because her grandmother was margaret forbes, who was due to marry adam charles a weaver, he died in a tragic accident involving his weave machine the boom of which swung back and caught his head and killed him, so margaret forbes eventually married john hall. their daughter eventually married james hutcheonand had agnes who married robert brown
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larkspur these are not phantoms but my brickwalls
larkspur was not suggesting everything was a fantasy. The point is that some information on online trees cannot be correct (larkspur cited a person with a WW1 victory medal born 1911 - who would have been 7 when the war ended).
Information from online trees which is not supported by references to original documents, or where there is some query over dates or locations being for the same person, is not necessarily incorrect, but we cannot assume that it is proved to be correct.
I hope this clarifies matters.
Philip
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larkspur these are not phantoms but my brickwalls
larkspur was not suggesting everything was a fantasy. The point is that some information on online trees cannot be correct (larkspur cited a person with a WW1 victory medal born 1911 - who would have been 7 when the war ended).
Information from online trees which is not supported by references to original documents, or where there is some query over dates or locations being for the same person, is not necessarily incorrect, but we cannot assume that it is proved to be correct.I think the medal was john he served possibly in india as he taught my grandad some sayings which were indian for porridge.I think that the medal was johns, my grandad obtained the usual medals for the second ww just for being there nothing special he served in africa as well became unwellike a lot of soldiers did with di sentry and malaria
I hope this clarifies matters.
Philip
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janet campbell's brother was not hugh i've now remembered, but archibald campbell their father was colin campbell chief of the clan.she was also sister to robyn campbell who married into the hamilton family.archie was interesting because he was a collector of plants and trees,which in later in life with his sons' encouragement, dug them all up and transported them all down to princess alexandras palace, which is now known as kew gardens.