RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: caitcarl on Sunday 26 March 17 19:01 BST (UK)
-
Hello fellow researchers, this may be a bit long-winded, so I do apologize in advance.
I have been recently corresponding with a third cousin in regard to our 4-3x great-grandfather, William Houlder, Jr.
He was born 20 Jun, 1790 in Southwark, Surrey, to a William Houlder (1757-1807, glazier) and his wife, Sarah nee MacCulloch (1752-1826). He had two siblings, a brother and sister, who both died by 1791. William Jr inherited his father's glazing company, and appears to have held a stall at the Borough Market. The Houlder glaziers were commissioned to do work on the Surrey Sessions House and County Goal from 1803-1829.
William Jr. married an Elizabeth Ellis (b. ~1792 in Heathfield, Sussex) on 6 May 1813 at Saint Saviour, Southwark. The pair had seven children:
William Houlder (III) - b.1814, Southwark
Elizabeth Hannah Houlder - b.1818, Southwark
Henry Houlder - b.1819, Southwark
Sarah Ann Houlder - b.1822, Southwark
Alfred Houlder - b.1824, Southwark
Augustus Frederick Houlder - b.1826, Streatham, Surrey
Edwin Savory Houlder - b.1829, Streatham, Surrey
By the 1841 Census, William is listed as living in St. Mary Newington, Lambeth, Surrey:
Willm Houlder - 50 - Agent [occupation] - Y [born in county]
Elizth Houlder - 45 - - No
Alfred - 15 - Y
Augus's - 14 - Y
Edwin - 12 - Y
Now, Edwin Savory Houlder and his brother Alfred Houlder, had a very successful shipping company called Houlder Brothers & Co. based in London. My cousin has a book entitled One Hundred Years of Houlders, which was written about 50 years after Edwin's death, but includes several pages about Edwin's life as the book is about the shipping company and the many people, and ships, involved. The 'real' mystery is in a short paragraph of the book:
"...Mr. Edwin Savory Houlder was born on the 19th December, 1828, and was the seventh child of William Houlder (born about 1780 this is off 10 years of my research). William Houlder is believed to have lived at Heathfield in Sussex (I have not found any records indicating this), and his wife was formerly a Miss Savory of Irish descent (this also does not match our research). William Houlder was a landowner and amused himself with hunting and sport. He spent much of his time in good living, and bad gambling, with the ultimate result that he eventually found circumstances far beyond his control. He thereupon settled the problem in a manner which was easiest for himself by sailing away abroad with what moveable property he could take, and nothing more was heard of him from that time. His wife was left with the responsible task of bringing up his family of seven children, aided only by her daughter Sarah Ann."
In attempting to research the validity of William Jr. having "sailed off", I have found the following record at Old Bailey Court: https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-614-18440205&div=t18440205-614&terms=William|Houlder#highlight
This William Houlder, a clerk/agent, was transported for 7 years to Tasmania for punishment after being found guilty of embezzlement. Records found in Tasmanian archives indicate that this William Houlder's origins were in St. Saviours, Southwark, that he was married with seven children. One of these record indicates that his wife's name is Elizabeth Walworth. I cannot find any marriage of a William Houlder and an Elizabeth Walworth during this time period, anywhere in the world.
Curiously, the 1851 Census (Surrey, Camberwall, St. George), shows the following:
Elizabeth Houlder - Head - Marr. - 56 - [blank occupation] - Heathfield, Sussex
Sarah A Do. - dau - single - 28 - Governess - Surrey [illegible]
Alfred Do. - son - single - 26 - Merchants Clerk - Do.
Edwin S. Do. - son - single - 22 - Do. - Surrey, Streatham
No William, though Elizabeth is married.
With all of that said, I can find nothing about William after 1841, until I found a William Houlder, who passed away at the Clapham Workhouse on 25 Mar 1856. He was buried in Norwood Cemetery, which leads me to believe this may be the same William as mine, as I am descended from his eldest son, who at the time lived [quite well of, I'll mention] at Norwood Green.
I would love to hear other genealogists thoughts, findings, etc. on this matter. Have I got the right William Houlder, glazier? Where does the Savory come in? Do you think it's possible the convict is also my William? Looking forward to discussion! ;D
-
The 'real' mystery is in a short paragraph of the book:
"...Mr. Edwin Savory Houlder was born on the 19th December, 1828, and was the seventh child of William Houlder (born about 1780 this is off 10 years of my research). William Houlder is believed to have lived at Heathfield in Sussex (I have not found any records indicating this), and his wife was formerly a Miss Savory of Irish descent (this also does not match our research).
William Houlder, a clerk/agent, was transported for 7 years to Tasmania for punishment after being found guilty of embezzlement. Records found in Tasmanian archives indicate that this William Houlder's origins were in St. Saviours, Southwark, that he was married with seven children. One of these record indicates that his wife's name is Elizabeth Walworth. I cannot find any marriage of a William Houlder and an Elizabeth Walworth during this time period, anywhere in the world.
My feeling is that SAVORY as the mother's maiden name is an incorrect assumption by the book author. None of Edwin's siblings had the name Savory. It is possible that Edwin had a godfather named Savory, or was given the name in tribute to a friend or relative.
Walworth is a district of Southwark and it is quite possible that it was incorrectly assumed to be a surname rather than a location.
For the benefit of other Rootschatters:
WILLIAM HOULDER, Theft - embezzlement, 5th February 1844.
Reference Number: t18440205-614
614. WILLIAM HOULDER was indicted for embezzling 40l.; 2s. 3d., the monies of his masters, Webster Flockton and another; to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 53.— Transported for Seven Years.
The prosecutor stated his loss at 230l.;
If William returned to England after his 7 year sentence in time to die in the Clapham workhouse he would have to have voyaged c1851-56 - there may be a surviving passenger list. If the two Williams are the same man, we could surmise that the well-off family were embarrassed by their "black sheep" and perhaps disowned him when he returned.
All the best.
Philip
-
I found a William Houlder, who passed away at the Clapham Workhouse on 25 Mar 1856. He was buried in Norwood Cemetery, which leads me to believe this may be the same William as mine, as I am descended from his eldest son, who at the time lived [quite well of, I'll mention] at Norwood Green.
Just worth bearing in mind that Norwood Green is in Middlesex, near Hounslow, to the west of the metropolitan area. Norwood Cemetery is in Lambeth, then in Surrey, now in south London, and a completely different place.
-
Walworth is a district of Southwark and it is quite possible that it was incorrectly assumed to be a surname rather than a location.
I think this is very likely. The address where they're living in 1841 is Westmoreland Place, which is in the very heart of Walworth. At that date Walworth came within the parish of St Mary Newington, which is why the census page is headed that way.
ref: HO107/1064/4 folio 11 page 14.
I suspect that someone who doesn’t know London has misconstrued the Tasmanian convict record.
-
For deciphering purposes, this is how the wife is shown in the convict indent CON14/1/22. Houlder is the last entry.
-
phillipsearching & Bookbox: Thank you so much for your input! I live in New Hampshire, USA, so don't have a full understanding of all the small districts of London. So glad I've found this site, and fellow genealogy enthusiasts, to help with my research.
All of this is extremely helpful. I'm feeling more and more confident that the convict sent to Tasmania is my William.
Now to determine if the William in the Clapham Workhouse was him or not. It would make sense to me that if he returned, it would be to the same area of the city, whether his family still lived there or not. Off to ship manifests!
-
Have you considered the 1867 death in Hobart of William HOLDER aged
71 81 & born England? The age is a little out but he died as a pauper of old age & debility at Brickfields Depot.
A little info here about Brickfields: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brickfields_Hiring_Depot
-
Now to determine if the William in the Clapham Workhouse was him or not.
Have you searched the 1851 census for the one who died in the workhouse in 1856, to try to eliminate him?
The man you're looking at was 68 when he died, so he is probably the William HOLDER who was already in the workhouse in 1851, aged 63, a gardener born in Dorking, Surrey.
ref: HO107/1577 folio 362 page 9
-
Bookbox: You are just one step ahead of me during a work day! :) Thank you for that; I believe your hunch is right.
Onto Australian records. My cousin and I have confirmed that the William Houlder in Tasmania was released at 4 years 8 mo on good behavior.
-
Onto Australian records. My cousin and I have confirmed that the William Houlder in Tasmania was released at 4 years 8 mo on good behavior.
Did you look at the 1867 Hobart death I suggested?
-
London Gazette
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/19965/page/880
See Houlder col 1 (abt half way down)
(Click on previous page for "Reason for Petition).
Is this "your" William?
-
Hi All,
Current progress... Jomot, I did manage to find the digital copy of the Tasmanian death record after I got out of work and home. Thank you for pointing me in that direction, I'm sorry that I appeared to overlook your original post about that!
I also found an article from 1874 describing the Brickfields Depot (Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954), Saturday 30 May 1874, page 2), and it indicates that many of the inmates were "at one portion of their careers, made acquaintance with a different kind of institution." It also suggests elsewhere that many were former convicts sent from England. Certainly seems to fit. I'm not thrown off by the age being wrong, as who knows what his state of mind was at the time he gave his age.
Looks like we could be getting closer to figuring this all out.
hanes teulu, I am intrigued by that London Gazette article. Some of those addresses seem plausible, but I will have to investigate some of the others! Thank you!!
-
Jomot, I did manage to find the digital copy of the Tasmanian death record after I got out of work and home. Thank you for pointing me in that direction, I'm sorry that I appeared to overlook your original post about that!
I was more concerned you simply hadn't seen it.
Reading the various articles about William Houlder's escapades in Tasmania it seems he was made bankrupt in 1856 and again in 1859, shortly after a court case in which he was described as nearly 70 and 'in debt and not worth a farthing'. It therefore seems increasingly likely that the London Gazette article relates to him, as well as the burial as a pauper.
-
Just following up on the London Gazette article, there is a notice in the Sussex Advertiser dated 14 Mar 1831 regarding a James Harmer of Hurstpierpoint, Plumber, Painter & Glazier having assigned all his stock, book debts etc to George Alfred Musket of Snow’s Field, Southwark, Oil & Lead Merchant, and William Houlder of Dover Road, Borough, London, Lead & Glass Merchant.
Another notice in Perry's Bankrupt Gazette dated 21 May 1831 advising that the partnership of William Houlder and William Mackenzie of Swan Street & Borough Market, Borough, had been dissolved.
Also this in 1835: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/19269/page/935 (bottom left)
In January 1840 a William Houlder of Church Street, Southwark, Glass and Lead Merchant petitioned for the bankruptcy of John Collins of Staines, Middlesex.
Taken together they all fit well with the William Houlder from 1841
Also a little more on the 1844 embezzlement case. Several articles have reported it under the name William Holder and described him as “a well dressed man, and said to be respectably connected”. He had been employed by Flockton & Co, Tar & Turpentine distillers of Bermondsey for 12 months as a traveller & collector, and was supposed to hand over any money he had collected the following day, however, it was discovered that various sums had not been accounted for and had instead been ‘converted for his own purposes’.
-
Jomot, thank you so much for continuing to help paint the picture.
Just to confirm, this the article you referenced of a William Houlder in Hobart at age 70: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3255933?searchTerm=%22William%20Houlder%22&searchLimits=l-availability=y|||l-decade=185 (http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3255933?searchTerm=%22William%20Houlder%22&searchLimits=l-availability=y|||l-decade=185)
I agree that the pre-1844 cases all seem to fit quite well. The book where we got some of the initial information that made us scratch our heads, described William Houlder as a man who "enjoyed good living and bad gambling," and inferred that he enjoyed the finer things in life. It wouldn't surprise me if he had himself well dressed and well connected. Hmmm...
-
William Houlder, Agent, age 53, height 5' 7", bald grey (hair), fresh (complexion), grey (eyes), offence embezzlement was received at Millbank prison on 1 Mar 1844 from Newgate gaol. On 19 April 1844 he was removed to the convict ship Maria Somes.
The Maria Somes sailed 25 April 1844 arriving VDL 30 July 1844.
-
Hi Caitcarl, yes, that was the article.
If you have access to Ancestry you should also find him on quite a few of the Land records, although the record set "Surrey, England, Jury-Qualified Freeholders and Copyholders" seems particularly interesting as for the years 1820-1824 William Houlder is recorded at the following locations:
Borough Market - Glazier
Dover Road - Glasscutter
Dover Road - Plumber
Suffolk Street - Painter & Glazier
Jury service was only open to men of a certain status, so that would certainly suggest he would have been reasonably 'well connected'. I'm sure others can tell you more about this, and those specific records - some of which have numbers suffixed to them - but this is helpful as a general overview: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jtm/
However, there are also some land tax entries from before he was born which presumably are his father, who you mention died in 1807.
-
The Launceston Chronicle, 14 Jun 1848 has an item about a "William Houlder, Maria Somes" being recommended for a conditional pardon.
The Courier (Hobart), 2 Jun 1849 has an item about " ... William Houlder, ticket-of-leave, my late clerk ..." where his former employer is instructing the public not to pay money or give credit to William.
-
Also a little more on the 1844 embezzlement case. Several articles have reported it under the name William Holder and described him as “a well dressed man, and said to be respectably connected”. He had been employed by Flockton & Co, Tar & Turpentine distillers of Bermondsey for 12 months as a traveller & collector, and was supposed to hand over any money he had collected the following day, however, it was discovered that various sums had not been accounted for and had instead been ‘converted for his own purposes’.
Where were you able to find the articles?
And thank you for pointing out that William had more than one location 1820-24; I had found one of the records and must have gotten distracted. I'm learning to use ancestry.com better all the time when it comes to documents outside of the state, so I'm thankful for your guidance.
hanes teulu, thank you for pointing out articles; I have found the second one, and the actually document about the pardon.
-
I was also able to find this; he would have been about 22 years old when admitted.
-
The articles are on the British Newspaper Archive, which can also be found on Find my Past.
He seems to have left quite a paper trail, which is always a bonus! Presumably you've also seen his father's will?
-
I was also able to find this; he would have been about 22 years old when admitted.
Nice find :) In case you don't know, his indenture is on the next page.
-
He seems to have left quite a paper trail, which is always a bonus! Presumably you've also seen his father's will?
Thank you! I am thrilled with the papertrail.
The will was what started me being able to track him more easily, as it confirmed his original occupation. :)
I also wonder how often it was that fathers indentured their sons?