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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: pergamond on Sunday 26 March 17 22:03 BST (UK)
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Just wondering if someone was born in Stow in 1791, would it be possible that in census records later that could be said to be Roxburghshire?
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Scotland's census' didn't officially start in 1841
also Stow is not generally in Roxburghshire try Selkirkshire and Midlothian it move back and forward over the year - currently in Selkirkshire/ Scottish Borders
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roxburghshire did spread further back in day - for instance the langlee/ ladhope areas of Galashiels were in Roxburghshire - Melrose Parish - now in Selkirkshire - basically everything north of the galawater was in Melrose Parish and South was Galashiels Parish
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Thank you Terriane. I had found a 1791 birth in Stowe, and was wondering if this might be in or near Roxburghshire as he married in Oxnam. (I found the maps quite tricky.)
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Oxnam, Roxburghshire is about 30 miles from Stow - there was quiet a bit a movement around the area when work is concerned especially in the farming community with the hiring - Oxnam is very rural - nearest town is Jedburgh
which family name are you looking for?
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Thanks Terriane. In the 1841 census for Linton, Roxburghshire, Robert Riddell (ag lab) and his wife Jane were both born in Roxburghshire about 1791. Also living there were son Peter born about 1821 and daughter Beatrix born about 1826.
In the 1851 census for Paston, Northumberland (Shotton?) it looks like the same couple, Robert born about 1792 in Scotland, wife Jane born about 1790 in Scotland, and son George born about 1829. Can't find Robert and Jane after 1851.
I found an Oxnam marriage for Robert Riddle and Jane Oliver 6 Jan 1817. So then I wondered if I could find Robert's birth. My original question about Stow was because there seemed to be only three possible births on SP - Robert Riddel born May 1791 in Ancrum, Robert Riddell born Nov 1790 in Hobkirk, and Robert Riddle born Dec 1791 in Stow. I don't think there's really any way of knowing which would be correct if any, but I was looking at the most-likelys.
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have you looked at Robert Riddell and Jane Turnbull married 1814 Southdean roxburghshire, in the census 1841 they were both 60 at Chesters, Southdean
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Posted by terianne;
have you looked at Robert Riddell and Jane Turnbull married 1814 Southdean roxburghshire, in the census 1841 they were both 60 at Chesters, Southdean.
Its strange as FreeREG has;
Marriage;
28 Oct 1803, Southdean Parish Church, Southdean
Robert RIDDELL of Southdean Parish
Jeany TURNBUL of Oxnam Parish
Baptism same Church;
Male RIDDELL, 30 Aug 1814, Parents RICHARD/JANE ( nee Turnbull)
4th Son, Fathers Occp Carter, abode Chesters
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BEATRIX Riddell Birth 2 May 1822, Oxnam, Roxburgh, Scotland, Father RICHARD
Others;
PETER Riddell 12 July 1818
ALEXANDER Riddell 17 Oct 1819
ADAM RIDDELL OLIVER Riddell 18 June 1820 (Twins or 1 person?)
GRACE PHILIP AINSLIE Riddell 17 Dec 1821
ISABELLA Riddell 8 July 1823
ELIZABETH Riddell 20 Feb 1825
GEORGE Riddell 11 June 1828
JANE Riddell 2 April 1830
(Source Familysearch.Org)
So the Robert Riddle and Jane Oliver 6 Jan 1817 Marriage looks good.
EDIT, Adam Oliver Riddell is 1 person from Census.
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This may be the Stow Robert;
1861 Census
Berwickshire
Robert Riddell, 69, born 1792 Stow, Midlothian
Agnes Riddell, 63
Hes a Doctor
The Ancrum Robert, Father Patrick, does not seem right to me as Robert/Jane dont name a Son Patrick
I tend to favour the Hobkirk Robert, Father Robert;
I just had a quick look but he seems to have Siblings;
ADAM 1798
GEORGE 1802
JANET 1804
I am no Scottish expert so others may have a better idea :)
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I found an Oxnam marriage for Robert Riddle and Jane Oliver 6 Jan 1817. So then I wondered if I could find Robert's birth. My original question about Stow was because there seemed to be only three possible births on SP - Robert Riddel born May 1791 in Ancrum, Robert Riddell born Nov 1790 in Hobkirk, and Robert Riddle born Dec 1791 in Stow. I don't think there's really any way of knowing which would be correct if any, but I was looking at the most-likelys.
pergamond,
I just want to point out that we can't always assume that the records that still exist today cover everyone we might be looking for. Some Presbyterian church records have been lost to damage or time; in other cases, some people belonged to other denominations (dissenting churches?), and therefore their records aren't necessarily available online. So, although you've found only three possible births/baptisms, there might very well have been more.
My apologies if you were already aware of this; it's something that tripped me up a bit when I was starting to research one of my Scottish families. I had to track several individuals with the same name, who were born at about the same time in about the same area, until I was eventually able to rule them out. As for my ancestor, I still haven't found a baptism for him, but I'm hoping there might be something in the kirk sessions whenever they go online. We live in hope. :)
Regards,
Josephine
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Yes nonconformist records can be a challenge - especially in the 1700s when they was still major disruptions & weather events - a lot of records are missing. back then records were not regulated and depending on the churches/parishes to keep them and split in the church of Scotland in the 1800s didn't help - the OPR is very patchy then nonconformist are concerned & official registration started 1855
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Thank you all.
I would tend to agree with you Trish that the 1790 Hobkirk Robert, father Robert, is the most likely of the three possibilities. The siblings' names are carried on in the family too.
But as you say, Josephine, records aren't always in existence. So it really remains only as a possible birth. Still interesting though.
And I've had my original question about Stow very well answered! :)
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Hi Pergamond,
Although it is vital to consider the possibility of non-conformist records and entries which are missing from the OPRs for other reasons, I believe in this case the OPRs do hold the answer to your puzzle.
I believe the parents of Robert Riddell were Peter/Patrick Riddell (Peter and Patrick are interchangeable forenames in Scottish records of this period) and his wife Betsy/Betty Scott, married on 25 May 1788 at Ancrum. This couple later moved to Oxnam and are buried in Oxnam Churchyard. (Transcriptions are available from the Borders Family History Society: http://www.bordersfhs.org.uk/BFHSMIAllVolumes.asp)
The only child found in the OPRs where both parents are named is Thomas (b. 19 Nov 1804, Oxnam). However, I believe we can add the following entries where only the father is recorded (although it would be good to check the original OPRs for further confirmatory evidence):
George, bap. 10 May 1789, Ancrum
Robert, bap. 13 May 1791, Ancrum
Margaret, bap. 9 Feb 1794, Ancrum
Peter, bap. 17 Jul 1796, Ancrum
Anne, bap. 12 Apr 1799, Ancrum
Margaret, bap. 11 Apr 1802, Ancrum
Jennet (Janet), bap. 15 Mar 1807, Oxnam
It would appear that Betty was still alive in 1841, when we can see her in the census at Cappuck, Oxnam Parish: http://www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79601011
She is still alive in 1851, where the census reveals she was born in Hobkirk Parish:
http://www.scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=80201027
I believe Jane Oliver's parents were Adam Oliver and Beatrix (Beatie) Smith, whose marriage is not recorded, but lived in Oxnam Parish. There seems to be the possibility that there was more than one Adam Oliver in Oxnam Parish, but we do have the following children where both parents' names are recorded:
Thomas, born 4 May 1784, Oxnam
Charlotte, born 6 Jun 1785, Oxnam
William, bap. 12 Apr 1787, Oxnam
I believe we can almost certainly add Jean Oliver, father's name Adam Oliver only recorded, bap. 14 Jun 1789 at Oxnam to the above list. Jean and Jane are interchangeable forenames. Hopefully the original OPR will confirm a similar occupation and/or residence for Adam, father of Jean to the other children already mentioned.
The above parents' names for Robert Riddell and his wife Jane Oliver seem to fit well with their children's names listed in an earlier post above. The match of children's names Peter (1818), Beatrix (1822) and George (1828) seem such a good match with later census records that I have little doubt this is your couple.
Hope this helps,
Graham Maxwell
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Thank you Graham for your contribution. :)
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The Ainslie Riddells were from Jedburgh originally.