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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Tom 23 on Tuesday 28 March 17 11:50 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am hitting a lot of brickwalls in trying to research my GG Grandmother who was born Isabella Baxter.
Here is what I do have.
Marriage Certificate - Marriage to William Scott on 22nd January 1875 age given 21 years old.
Address 35 Maitland Street, Glasgow - parents John Baxter deceased and Mary Baxter (nee Wilson)
On her daughters marriage certificate (Isabella Scott b.1891) dated 10th March 1915 William Scott is deceased and Isabella Baxter has remarried and her surname is Whiteford.
I cannot find Isabella Baxter on either the 1861 or 1871 census (or her parents on any census).
I cannot find Isabella Scott on the 1881 or 1891 census.
I cannot find the date of death of William Scott or her marriage to Mr Whiteford so therefore do not know if she was Isabella Scott or Isabella Whiteford in 1901 census or 1911 census, either way no candidates.
Thanks in advance.
NB:- There is a family recollection that Mr Whiteford was Chief Steward on the Cutty Sark but I cannot validate this.
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Looks like her death on SP & downloadable;
BAXTER
ISABELLA
63
1925
644/18 257
Pollokshields
WHITEFORD
ISABELLA
63
1925
644/18 257
Pollokshields
For the benefit of others, both indexed will contain exactly the same info. i.e. no need to view both.
Annie
Added, You may have this already as your post didn't mention you didn't have her death?
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Marriage William Whiteford / Isabella Scott( or Baxter ) , 1905 , Kinning Park , Lanark(shire) 644/14 23.
Maybe........
ev
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The 1911 Census index has -
William Whiteford 48
Isabella Baxter Whiteford 50
Plantation , Lanark(shire)
Ref. 646/1 18/28
Has Isabella "lost" some years ?
ev
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Marriage Certificate - Marriage to William Scott on 22nd January 1875 age given 21 years old.
Address 35 Maitland Street, Glasgow - parents John Baxter deceased and Mary Baxter (nee Wilson)
What was William Scott's age & occupation on marriage please?
Annie
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I do not think the marriage year is correct. This looks to be likely details on siblings/parents http://host-92-19-214-26.static.as13285.net/fam43657.htm
Census details would help in locating her birth by confirming her birth place hopefully.
Monica
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Possible marriage for Isabella's parents https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTYJ-9XB
Monica
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A possible for 1901 although young Isabella is 16 not 10 (could the '0' have looked like a '6' to the transcriber) ???
William Scott (47)
Birth abt 1854
Waterproof Cutter
Spouse Isabella Scott
Born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
74, Paisley Road
Glasgow Govan, Lanarkshire
RD; Kinning Park Landward
Registration Number: 644/14A
ED 31
Schedule no. 14
Line 18
Roll CSSCT1901_323
William Scott 47
Isabella Scott 45
Isabella Scott 16
David Alexander 28
Annie
ADDED Think we can eliminate this as young Isabella has an occupation 'Home Duties'?
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Not at home so can't easily check, but hopefully the birth cert of daughter Isabella in 1891 should include parents' marriage details https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTXG-V6X
The 1891 census was on 5 April but can't easily see them so far...
Monica
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(Isabella Scott b.1891)
When & where was Isabella born please?
This should help where they may be in 1891?
Depending on her D.o.b she may be on the 1891 census & what was her father's occupation on her birth cert?
Annie
Added, Monica, Thanks, was typing when you posted ::)
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Thank you very much everyone, I am very grateful.
To answer some questions in the previous posts:-
1) I did not have Isabella's death details until this post was answered!
2) 'William' Whiteford sounds familiar, so believe this is the correct marriage details in 1905
3) William Scotts occupation was ship's cook and his year of birth is 1848
4) Daughter Isabella Scott was born on 29.4.1891, so that is her on the familysearch link showing birth in Kilmore and Kilbride.
I am about to go onto SP and view the above certs including Isabella Scott's birth.
Kind regards
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for filling us in with some info.
Occupations can make the difference in a lot of cases.
Do you know if Isabella had siblings?
Father's occupation may have changed which would be given on each birth.
Annie
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Hi
Just viewed Isabella's death certificate, its 100% her and has provided some very useful and interesting information. In a complete contradiction to her marriage certificate (which is 100% her), the parents names are different - on the death certificate the parents are named as William Baxter and Elizabeth Baxter, maiden surname Wilson.
Isabella sadly died of breast cancer.
Add - I had not found siblings for Isabella but had been searching under wrong parents names, as had only previously seen her marriage cert with parents named John Baxter and Mary Wilson.
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Hmm,
Difficult one.
Isabella was giving her own details on marriage but the info. on her death would be from a 3rd party who may not have known the correct details?
However, there are known to have been discrepancies e.g. someone with forename & middle name preferring to be known by middle name among other things :D
Annie
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Hmm,
Difficult one.
Isabella was giving her own details on marriage but the info. on her death would be from a 3rd party who may not have known the correct details?
However, there are known to have been discrepancies e.g. someone with forename & middle name preferring to be known by middle name among other things :D
Annie
Yes of course, the wind has just left the sails! ;D
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Does Isabella state parents the same on both marriages?
Annie
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Just finished checking and on her marriage certificate to William Whiteford the parents are William Baxter (Seaman) which is same occupation as death certificate and Elizabeth Baxter (nee Wilson), so it does seem John and Mary Baxter as her parents was incorrect..
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I wonder....
William Baxter and Elizabeth Wilson.
&
John Baxter and Mary Wilson.
Could they have been siblings marrying siblings (I haven't searched) &/or....
Is it possible Isabella was born to John & Mary but a possible tragedy with parents & brought up by William & Elizabeth i.e. naming them as her parents & possibly not finding out before her marriage that they were not her 'real' parents?
Again, anything is possible.
Annie
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I would probably check the birth cert now Tom, for Isabella b. 1891, to get a marriage date from it to try and find the Scott/Baxter marriage. It could be that Isabella was born in Ireland perhaps? What was her father's occupation?
Monica
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Just finished checking and on her marriage certificate to William Whiteford the parents are William Baxter (Seaman) which is same occupation as death certificate and Elizabeth Baxter (nee Wilson), so it does seem John and Mary Baxter as her parents was incorrect..
Sorry,
Missed this post!
Annie
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Sorry from me too! You mentioned that father William is showing as a seaman in both the 2nd marriage reg (Whiteford) and also Isabella's death cert.
Monica
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I would probably check the birth cert now Tom, for Isabella b. 1891, to get a marriage date from it to try and find the Scott/Baxter marriage. It could be that Isabella was born in Ireland perhaps? What was her father's occupation?
Monica
Hi Monica
I have the William Scott / Isabella Baxter marriage certificate (Jan 1875) , this is the one that she gives her parents as being John Baxter and Mary Wilson.
On her first marriage certificate, John Baxter (already deceased) has the occupation as being a Power Loom ...(something after ineligible).
There is something not adding up with her age though as on the 1875 marriage certificate her age is 21 years old born 1854. The second marriage certificate has her age as being 44 in 1905, therefore born in 1861 and death certificate in 1925 has her at 63 born therefore in 1862.
If she was born in 1861 this would make her 14 years old at the time of her first marriage so think the 1861/1862 dates are the incorrect ones.
I like the theory of her being raised by 'Uncle' William and 'Aunt' Elizabeth!
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These are possibles?
Edited Sorry...forget below births.....helps if I do a timeline with different names & dates when jumping back & forth in between other things ::)
BAXTER
ISABELLA
1890
651/2 124
New Monkland Landward
WILSON
ISABELLA BAXTER
1890
401/ 42
Aberdour (Fife)
WILSON
ISABELLA BAXTER
1890
405/ 201
Auchterderran (also Fife)
If she was illegitimate? it would be common to use her father's surname which I have found in the past & caused me a lot of confusion in my early research ::)
Annie
Edit Disregard above births!
Added Have you found Isabella (Snr) in 1911 which Ev provided as this will state her place of birth & hopefully a correct one :-\
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"On her first marriage certificate, John Baxter (already deceased) has the occupation as being a Power Loom ...(something after ineligible)."
Most likely Power Loom 'Weaver'?
Annie
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Just incase it's missed, I have edited Reply #22 :-[
Annie
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Been having another go at trying to find something on this family group...
Think I have Isabella now in 1901. The original as always will help as I think young Isabella's age is mistranscribed as are other pieces of info:
Isabella Scott 45 b. Hargate, Aberdeen
William Scott 16 Assistant Draggist b. Glasgow
Jane Ann Scott 7 b. Arbroath, Aberdeenshire
Bella Scott 1 b. Oban, argyleshire
William Whiteford 46 boarder Steam Ship Cook b. Paisley
Address: 43 Plantation St, Govan
Although Isabella's age is all over the place, she also gave her birth place as Aberdeen in the 1911 census. Birth places for Jane Ann and Isabella Jnr also match.
Monica
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With the reference to Hardgate, Aberdeen for Isabella Snr in 1901, how about this entry in 1861 for her:
Robert Stewart 24 distiller
Christina Stewart 27
William Stewart 5
Charles Stewart 1
Widow Stewart 65 boarder
Isabela Baxter 9 boarder b. Aberdeenshire
Address: Hardgate, Old Marchar Aberdeenshire
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Sure looks good Monica,
Well done as usual! ;D
Isabella's birth yr leaves a lot to be desired but of course as we know, typical for many reasons.
Annie
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She is so hard to find details on for sure :-\
If it is her in 1861 showing as a boarder with the Stewarts, will be hard to trace her back to family. Specially with the different names we have for parents and her age variations.
Monica
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Monica,
You're right, especially when recorded as 'Boarder' which is far harder than having a relationship tag e.g. G/daughter, Niece etc.
Annie
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I would probably check the birth cert now Tom, for Isabella b. 1891, to get a marriage date from it to try and find the Scott/Baxter marriage.
Monica
In view of everything so far, Monica has mentioned the most important cert. you need, the birth.
This one is crucial!
This may state if father was deceased?
I have a birth (my g g/mother) who's father died prior to her birth.
They married Jun 1870, father died Jan 1871, my g g/mother was born Aug 1871.
Annie
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Hi
Thank you v much for the additional information, I viewed the 1911 census and as already mentioned discovered Isabella Baxter was from Aberdeenshire, this also showed a previously unknown sister for my G-Grandmother Isabella Scott, named Jane Ann Scott. The 1901 census is looking spot on and looks like a previously unknown brother named William Scott!
I have got Isabella Scott's birth cert from 1891, she was born in Oban and her father is not shown as being deceased.
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So far we have a son William born in Glasgow, Isabella in Oban in 1891 and Jane Ann in Arbroath around 1893-4. The original image of the 1901 census would let you confirm whether Isabella was a widow by then. Having William Whiteford in the household boarding doesn't mean that William Scott was deceased by then.
Monica
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SP show a likely birth in Arbroath in 1892 for Jane Ann Scott.
Monica
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Just found Isabella on the 1891 census in Oban, just her and son William (b.1884 Glasgow). Isabella gave her year of birth as 1857, Aberdeenshire.
Thanks for the Jane Ann Scott birth on SP.
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This 1851 was looking a possible but age is way out from the rest & she's still with mother Elizabeth in 1861 aged 12 although there's no sign of a father on either which did make me wonder with the different names for parents.
This would make her age 27 rather than 21 on marriage in 1875 ???
I think Monica's 1861 find looks more likely with age but.....
Will post anyway.
Isabella Baxter
3
Daughter
Mother Elizabeth Baxter
Born Aberdeen
Parish No. 168A
Civil Parish Aberdeen Greyfriars
County Aberdeenshire
Address 76 Gallowgate
ED 3
Pg 32
Schedule no. 154
Line 4
Roll CSSCT1851_38
Household
Elizabeth Baxter 37 (Born France, Occ. Broker)
Wm Baxter 16 Dau, Born Aberdeen?
James Baxter 11 Son “
Alexandren Baxter 9 Dau “
Alfred Baxter 5 Son “
Isabella Baxter 3
Margarett Baxter 39 Servant, born Edinburgh, Occ. Drep Maker (sic)
1861 has Elizabeth Baxter born British Salgest, France, Occ. Broker Furriture (sic)
1861 has Alexandren as Alesandema Baxter
1861 also has;
Alesandrma Fraser
69
Grandmother
Where born British Subject, Spain
Annie
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Thanks again, I feel that I know Isabella a lot better now, I have attached the William Scott / Isabella Baxter marriage, it's definitely looks like a 21 for her age, this was Jan 1875.
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Hi Tom,
I do realise there was a big gap in age differences with all so far.
When I found it I had only been searching surname of Baxter to see what came up?
It's always useful for others too.
Isabella is a real mystery though!
Annie