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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: wilcoxon on Thursday 30 March 17 14:38 BST (UK)
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James Holms and Martha Stewart Feb 12 1842 at Kilbarchan ,Renfrewshire
This is the date their names were put forward for proclamation on marriage; There are no other details at all.
In 1851 and 1861 Martha states she was born Johnstone , Renfrewshire
Death Registration Certificate.
Martha Holms died December 1861 aged 39. Barholm, Kilbarchan,
Her parents are named as James Stewart, grocer formerly a soldier, deceased, and Janet maiden surname Craig , deceased.
I can find nothing more on her parents, no marriage , or even a birth for Martha that fits.
Can anyone help.
Also does anyone know why it isn`t the actual marriage entry from 1842 on SP.
What is "proclamation"
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Family Search shows it as a marriage on that date
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I have the original image, there are 11 couples on one page and every one is the same except for the date.
"Male name and female name" both in this parish entered their names for proclamation of marriage.
None have any other information.
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the list of Old parish Registers on the National Records of Scotland site shows the marriage registers held for Kilbarchan for 1650-1819 and after 1694 the marriages are proclamations only.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jtx/ - gives an explanation of proclamations
Martha could be a child of this marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQD-K48
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Statutory records started in Scotland in 1855 before that for marriages what is recorded is the calling of the banns For births its is the christening records and what you see when downloading the image is what was recorded in the parish books at the time. Unfortunately there won't be any other information recorded anywhere else. Also not all the records survived so that could be why you can't find a record for the parents and not all christenings were recorded or have not survived
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Statutory records started in Scotland in 1855 before that for marriages what is recorded is the calling of the banns For births its is the christening records and what you see when downloading the image is what was recorded in the parish books at the time. Unfortunately there won't be any other information recorded anywhere else. Also not all the records survived so that could be why you can't find a record for the parents and not all christenings were recorded or have not survived
Yes, I`m beginning to find that out to my cost. However I have been lucky in other marriages before 1855 where fathers names and occupation were listed.
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Martha could be a child of this marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQD-K48
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From her age at death Martha was born about 1822, I did look for other children for this couple after their marriage but found nothing that helped.
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The only birth match for a Martha Stewart about the right time is Andrew Stewart and Janett Craig 16 Feb 1823 Abbey . Right name for mother but wrong dad.
I can`t find this couple in any census. :(
I`m not sure where Abbey is, but found this in the census.
1851 Abbey (Paisley) -Renfrewshire
Civil Parish: Abbey (Paisley) Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Johnstone, High St.
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Who registered Martha's death could they have got the name of her father wrong and is there a son called Andrew or James born to Martha and John
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Who registered Martha's death could they have got the name of her father wrong and is there a son called Andrew or James born to Martha and John
Her husband.
Andrew , James, Janet.
Martha died 12 days after giving birth to a child that was given the middle name Gardner.
This still doesn`t help.
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Sorry was trying to post whilst dealing with my daughter what I was hoping was that they had followed the naming pattern. I had a quick look on family search and found no children registered between the marriage and 1855 so they could have had other children but didn't get their names recorded in the parish book. Also found a Margaret Gardner married a James Stewart in 1840 in Paisley This James maybe a brother of Martha with Martha and James Holms naming one of their children after her
What I'm tying to say is that you have only one source of her parents and as you can find no record of them or Martha's christening it may help to go side ways and try and find siblings and look for their records
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Thanks.
The only birth match for a Martha Stewart about the right time is Andrew Stewart and Janett Craig 16 Feb 1823 Abbey .
I have found this one on an online tree, but with only her birth, I`m trying to follow this up just to see if there are any clues.
Interesting theory about Gardner and worth looking at.
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So far I`ve found nothing, no siblings for Martha, and no children of James Stewart and Margaret Gardner.
No children found on Anc , SP or Family Search with a match for names.
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Had another look found Martha and family in 51 and 61 and apart from their first daughter being called Martha if they followed the naming pattern then I would say Martha parents were Andrew and Janet and James were Robert and Jean/Jane Or as they haven't had the children born prior to 1855 recorded in the parish books Martha and her siblings may not have been recorded in the parish books either
Also looked for James and Margaret in the census but couldn't see any that looked possibles
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I may have found something, but proving it is another matter.
Martha Stewart parents Andrew Stewart and Janet Craig 1823 Abbey .
This is on SP but can`t find it on Family Search.
Other children of this couple Family Search / SP
Mary Stewart 1820 1820 Abbey Paisley
Samuel Stewart 1825 Abbey Paisley
1841 Johnston
Samuel Stuart 16 no occ b Renfrewshire
He is with John Cameron cotton spinner and Jane Cameron.
Samuel Stewart married Isobel Alexander 1848 Greenock, Renfrew,
1851 , Greenock
Samuel Stewart 26 ships carpenter b Johnstone
Isabel Stewart 25 b Port Glasgow, Renfrewshire
Jane Stewart 1 b Greenock, Renfrewshire.
By 1861 Samuel is missing, this may be his death
Samuel Stewart aged 31 died 1856 Greenock East
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just checked the death reg, parents noted as Andrew Stewart & Janet ms Craig. Death registered by William Alexander brother-in-law, leading to this marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQM-G2X
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Thanks. If only there were details of Andrews occupation, if he was a grocer then that would be a match for Martha`s father.
I think this is the other child, and may be where the Gardner name fits in.
Margaret Gardner Holms, born 1861 daughter of Martha Stewart
Mary Stewart married James Gardner 1837 Kilbarchan Renfrewshire
1841 Kilbarchan.
James Gardner 25 silk hand loom weaver b Renfrewshire
Mary Gardner 25 b Renfrewshire
James 5
Jean 2
Now it gets messy.
1851 Kilbarchan , all children born Kilbarchan.
James Gardner 39 handloom weaver b Kilbarchan
Agnes Gardner 24 b Ayrshire
James Gardner 16
George Gardner 14
John Gardner 9
Mary Gardner 5
Back to 1841 Houston and Killellan Renfrewshire
George Gardner 4 b Renfrewshire
He is with a Wilson family.
So has Mary died. Agnes it too young to be the mother of all these children.
If she has then there will no details of her parents to check occupation .
I can't see any way to confirm Andrew Stewarts occupation
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May be no link, but The Scotsman in September 1843, has mention under its Bankrupts section, a James Stewart, Grocer, in Paisley.
Several mentions of an Andrew Stewart, merchant, associated with Greenock, Paisley and Glasgow in timescale, but his wife seems to have been an Ann (referred to in 1844 as being widow of Andrew).
update:
ruled out this Andrew as Ann was a McGregor. They married in 1820.
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possible for Martha aged 18 in 1841 in Barrholm Street, Kilbarchan, occupation cotton factory
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VYC1-J39
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possible for Martha aged 18 in 1841 in Barrholm Street, Kilbarchan, occupation cotton factory
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VYC1-J39
I agree, I did find her and her future husband also in the same Street, he remained there till his death.
1841 Barrholm Street. Kilbarchan
Robt Hohm 50
Jean Hohm 45
*** James Hohm 20
Ander (Andrew) Hohm 15
Alexr Hohm (Alexander) 13
Mary Hohm 9
Archd Hohm ( Archibald) 4
Jean Hohm 15 silk hand loom weaver
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May be no link, but The Scotsman in September 1843, has mention under its Bankrupts section, a James Stewart, Grocer, in Paisley.
This is the only grocer I can find, but too young and I`m not sure about the area.
James Stewart Age:30 Where born:Renfrewshire, Scotland
Civil Parish:Houston and Killellan County:Renfrewshire
Address:Houston Village
Occupation:Grocer & Sp Deal
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the second wife of James Gardner looks to be Agnes McQueen from birth of son Matthew
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQXR-5YF
so marriage 6 Sep 1850
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQ7-7XN
I wonder if there any other siblings who may have lived until civil registration or who may have records that help? Mary probably the oldest the child as marriage of parents 26 June 1819
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY31-9L9
I wonder if Samuel followed his father's occupation? If Andrew was also a ship's carpenter, he may have died at sea.
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Thanks,
This is my problem. Was her father James, or could her husband have made a mistake with his name. I doubt he would get his other details wrong.
Was her father Andrew, and is she the same girl born to Andrew and Janet, and was he a grocer.
James Holms and Martha Stewart Feb 12 1842 at Kilbarchan ,Renfrewshire
proclamation of marriage; There are no other details at all.
In 1851 and 1861 Martha states she was born Johnstone , Renfrewshire
Death Registration Certificate.
Martha Holms died December 1861 aged 39. Barholm, Kilbarchan,
Her parents are named as James Stewart, grocer formerly a soldier, deceased, and Janet maiden surname Craig , deceased.
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What you have now point the more to Andrew being her father
Martha states she was born Johnstone which you found is part of the parish of Abbey which is where the christening record for Martha daughter of Andrew and Janet Have you viewed this on Scotland's People it may have more information than what is in the index
According to the census it looks like that James and Martha followed the naming pattern after the birth of their first daughter 1st son called Robert after his paternal grandfather 2nd son Andrew 2nd daughter Janet after her maternal grandmother 3rd daughter Jean after her paternal grandmother
If you haven't downloaded the christening of Andrew and Janet children that would be my next step as it may give Andrew occupation
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Just spent some more credits.
Martha legitimate daughter of Andrew and Janet, residence Johnston.
Sadly no occupations on any of the entries.
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At least that's another fact that matches up the 2 Martha's were born Johnstone Pity it didn't also state father's occupation if it had said grocer then I would feel pretty confident that they were the same one
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It`s a pity that there wasn`t more info on the death reg of Samuel Stewart that Osprey found.
just checked the death reg, parents noted as Andrew Stewart & Janet ms Craig.
Martha`s parents were both dead by 25 December 1861.
SP NO, Parents / other details.
The only death in the Abbey district for Andrew Stewart is aged 80 on 11/03/1853.
4 Janet Stewart`s of varying ages in Abbey
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the parents weren't noted as deceased on Samuel's death reg, but that doesn't mean they were alive. No occupation listed either.
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Thanks.
I`m searching for Andrew and Janet Stewart in 1841/51. Not easy when we don`t know how old they were ::)
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I found a few trees on Anc.
Janet Craig born 27 Dec 1798 Abbey ? Renfrewshire
married Andrew Stewart 1819.
Only Martha and Mary are on the tree.
Janet Craig / Stewart aged 83 death 09 Apr 1883 Lanark, Ontario, Canada
No death for Andrew.
Mary Stewart marries Joseph Neilson
Birth 10 APR 1818 • BLACKDYKE, L, RENFREW
Death 25 NOV 1884 • JOHNSTONE , Renfrew,
I don`t take notice of trees though unless everything matches what I can confirm
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according to the extracted baptism record, Mary was born 6 Aug 1820
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY49-DTY
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Mary Neilsen, widow of Joseph, died in Johnstone 7 Nov 1888. There are no names of parents on the cert, death was registered by a neighbour, possibly didn't know their details.
Her age as given on census does tie in with her date of baptism.
The L in Joseph's baptism details could be Lochwinnoch as that is what he gave as place of birth on 1861 cesus, 1881 he gave Howwood.
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according to the extracted baptism record, Mary was born 6 Aug 1820
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY49-DTY
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Sorry if this was confusing, it was Joseph Neilson born 1818 .
Mary Stewart marries Joseph Neilson
Birth 10 APR 1818 • BLACKDYKE, L, RENFREW
Death 25 NOV 1884 • JOHNSTONE , Renfrew,