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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Anglesey => Topic started by: peony2blue on Saturday 01 April 17 13:59 BST (UK)
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Please some views on Patronymics in Anglesey
I have a baptism from Llanallgo Anglesey
1764 19 August
David son of Owen Thomas ap William Parry of Nant Bychan, tenant and fisherman.
I have 3 generations here but how did Owen Thomas get his name from William Parry?
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Seems strange to me and I've gone back through a number of patronymic lines in North Wales ancestors.
Where did you find the info?
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Hi Extract B. T. s National Library of Wales and Baptisms Llanallgo Anglesey Archives
Information double checked!
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Could be a case of Matronymic the female equivalent, were he took his mother's maiden name ???
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Hi Extract B. T. s National Library of Wales and Baptisms Llanallgo Anglesey Archives
Information double checked!
Entry doesn't seem to appear in the Llanallgo or Llaneugrad PRs. Have you got any other info on William Parry?
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No info on William Parry but have a death of Jane Parry 1741 Llanallgo.
Surprised no entry for David Owen baptisms LLanallgo 1764. Where are you looking?
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Trying to find an image of the parish entry but can't see them - may have been mis-indexed. I've checked that the Llanallgo records are extant.
Is it possible for you to put up a snip or the entry to see if there's anything else that might give a hint.
Are there any wills, etc. that might help - just trying to work around the names :-\
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Just been looking again.
This is not a real patronymic entry - iwe've only assumed it by the 'ap' If it was a full patronymic, it would be David ap Owen [ap Thomas..etc]. So it might well be that the 'ap' is really indicating that Owen Thomas was the (possibly illegitimate) son of William Parry and not a 'real' patronymic at all.
Was David known as David Thomas or David Owen?
Added
*** Sorry, meant to say that Parry is not a name that would be used in full patronymics - it's a surname derived from the patronymic 'ap harry'
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Have will of Owen Thomas. All his children given Owen surname in his will.
Could be that William Parry married Jane Thomas?
I only have marriage index in Anglesey from 1754.
Llanallgo parish records only from 1813 on FindMyPast.
Owen Thomas named his first son William and his first daughter Jane!
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Any chance of finding a William Parry will?
NLW website is often a bit iffy at weekends for newspapers and wills!
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Hi,
"1764 19 August
David son of Owen Thomas ap William Parry of Nant Bychan, tenant and fisherman."
I would read that as David son of Owen son of Thomas son of William Parry.
Ray
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Hi,
"1764 19 August
David son of Owen Thomas ap William Parry of Nant Bychan, tenant and fisherman."
I would read that as David son of Owen son of Thomas son of William Parry.
Ray
If it was full patronymic it would be ......David ap Owen ap Thomas ap William ap Harry
but it's not - it's mixed :-\
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Hi,
They didn't play by the rules, if there are any. "Ap" is often omitted as is "ferch".
Ray
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Yes, Ray, I know as I've followed mine for a good few centuries ;D
However, in my experience, what was entered in the PRs very much depended on the clergyman/clerk and it was unusual to mix full patronymics ( i.e use of ap and ferch) with semi-patronics ( missing the ap/ferch ) and surname form in a single entry.
Peony has the will of Owen Thomas but, so far, nothing on William Parry :-\
Added - I think we're all conversant with patronymics but I've just found this link which might help others.: http://www.amlwchhistory.co.uk/newdata/welshsurnames.htm
Dafydd Hayes of Clwyd FHS once wrote a very good piece on patronymics but I can't find the ref to it now - it must have been 10-15 years ago.
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Dafydd Hayes of Clwyd FHS once wrote a very good piece on patronymics but I can't find the ref to it now - it must have been 10-15 years ago.
Found it -it was 1992!
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/helachau/patronymics.htm
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Useful article thank you