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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Ridgeback on Sunday 02 April 17 17:22 BST (UK)
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Could anyone help me please in tracing George Ernest Stevens born 1863 birthplace unknown, he married Ellen Jane Shuttleworth on the 25 Jun1906 and the address listed on the Marriage/Banns document is 16 Emmott Street, Stepney, George & Ellen also lived at this address after they were married.
There is proof as Ellen was admitted to Whitechapel infirmary/workhouse due to pregnancy (gave birth to Ernest George 4 Oct 1906) on the 26 Sep 1906 and her address on admission is 16 Emmott St. also notated is “Wife of Ernest Geo a Carpenter same address” Note that George Ernest has changed to Ernest Geo.
The baptism records for the son Ernest (28 Nov 1906)show parents as Ernest & Ellen, this time the address is 16 Hewett St. Stepney.
Nov 1910 saw another admission for Ellen due to pregnancy into Bromley House Stepney and was discharged with a newly born daughter on 21 Dec 1910, this time no mention of the father.
I have gone through the 1911 Census but still cannot trace him but have found his wife and children.
There were rumour’s within the family years ago that they think he might have ended up in prison but that line of thought again hasn’t be proven.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading
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1906 marriage gives George Ernest Stevens -bachelor -age 43 - occupation Carpenter
father Edward Stevens (deceased) tea grocer
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Hello
Yes that's the one I'm looking for, but as I say from then on nothing or before come to that, but in all fairness to prove before the marriage is quite difficult.
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There appears to be a daughter born June qtr 1912 Epson Surrey
Jane Catherine Stevens MMN Shuttleworth
Ref 2a 40, so Mr Stevens should have been somewhere around I assume!!
Louisa Maud
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That is true she died Oct 1982 in Walthamstow.
By the way the Daughter who was born in 1910 her name was Maud Louisa.
David
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Could you please give the details from the 1911 for Ellen
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This may be a coincidence but 1901 shows
George Stevens aged 38 born Windsor Berks
42 Coffee House, Clewer
occupation bricklayer, did he change his occupation by 1906?
Ref RG13/1169 FOLIO 42 PAGE 3
Louisa Maud
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Details for Ellen in the 1911 census, Named as Nelly Stevens living with father & mother at 170 Bow Rd, Bow
Registration district Poplar Registration District Number 22 Sub-registration district Bow
ED, institution, or vessel 10 Piece 1660
Regarding his occupation it's possible who knows?
Cheers
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Details for Ellen in the 1911 census, Named as Nelly Stevens living with father & mother at 170 Bow Rd, Bow
Does she say whether she is married or widowed :-\
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She is married, no children shown in columns, only 1 child listed Florrie Stevens aged 3, where is Maud Louisa born 1910?
Louisa Maud
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That's correct
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what about the children?
have you checked 1939?
LM
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She is married, no children shown in columns, only 1 child listed Florrie Stevens aged 3, where is Maud Louisa born 1910?
Louisa Maud
If the 1911 is correct where also is Ernest George baptised 25th June 1906?
Keyboard86
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what about the children?
have you checked 1939?
LM
The children we have tracked
Florence E. 1907-1979
Maud L. 1910-1962
Jane C. 1912-1982
And Ellen J Stevens (nee Shuttleworth) 1881-1979
I have tried to check 1939
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:) But the question being asked is where were at least Maude L 1910 and Ernest G 1906 in 1911?
Keyboard86
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Florence Elizabeth baptised St Matthew Limehouse Fields 30/11/1900, only mother Ellen Jane listed of Ratcliffe house, birth registration n mother's maiden name
LM
PS Ernest George born 1906
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She is married, no children shown in columns, only 1 child listed Florrie Stevens aged 3, where is Maud Louisa born 1910?
Louisa Maud
If the 1911 is correct where also is Ernest George baptised 25th June 1906?
Keyboard86
Ernest George was born 4 Oct 1906 Baptised 28 Nov 1906 and died Dec 1906
Maud, this is a strange one she is listed as adopted on the 1911 census still with her maiden name at School Lane, Radcliffe.
Registration District Number 20
Sub-registration district Shadwell and Ratcliff
ED, institution, or vessel 8 Piece 1537
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[
Florence Elizabeth baptised St Matthew Limehouse Fields 30/11/1900, only mother Ellen Jane listed of Ratcliffe house, birth registration n mother's maiden name
LM
PS Ernest George born 1906
Where did you find the baptised for Florence and should the date read 30/11/1907
David
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HUGE APOLOGIES
it is Elizabeth Agnes baptised as Shuttleworth 30/11/1900
mother Ellen Jane,
Still trying to find out about the father
LM
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Hi again ok getting there, have you researched why Maude L b 1910 was adopted, and was Florence a Florence Lilian rather than the Florence E you show for the birth 1907 you have tracked onward?
Keyboard86
PS I see the mother who "Adopted" Maud/e claims to have been "Desirted/Deserted?
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Florence Lilian Steven mmn Shuttleworth registered December qtr 1907 ref 1c 485 Poplar
Louisa Maud
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Hi,
On FindMyPast, under Crime, Prisons & Punishment there is a page that has the following:
George Stevens, alias Edward Perry, Ernest Perry, John Carruthers, John Shaw and Charles Atkinson F S a I 465 Dartmoor (this was prison no and prison). born 1864 in Cambridge, 5' 6" in height, fair skin, dk bn hair (partly bald). Sc on nose, neck and l. eyebrow; mole l cheek. Offence and place of conviction: Lar-N.L.S. (P.C. Essex, 633AQ). Sentence and date of conviction: 5 yrs ps 7-1-1908. Date of Liberation, intended Address and Occupation: 8-9-1911, Central Association, London Carpenter.
If this is your man, it would account for the reason Maude L born 1910 being adopted, as she could not be his.
Kath
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Several family trees on Ancestry have this family, one actually gives a date of birth for GEORGE STEVENS, shown as born Bethnal Green, worth a look.
LM
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Hi could well be a possible, although there is a GRO. Index birth:-
Maud Louisa Stevens December qtr 1910 Poplar mmn Shuttleworth?
Keyboard86
As a matter of interest the children Maud is living with are an Isabella Louisa Burrows b December qtr 1897 Stepney and an Elizabeth Amelia Burrows September qtr 1894 Stepney both mmn Creanbean/Creabean?
Found mother in 1901 but children?
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Florence Lilian Steven mmn Shuttleworth registered December qtr 1907 ref 1c 485 Poplar
Louisa Maud
Florence was definitely F Edith, on the Marriage Death and also England cemetery Register
PS I see the mother who "Adopted" Maud/e claims to have been "Desirted/Deserted?
[/quote]
I can only think that the word Adopted should have Fostered cause Maud was living back with the family in 1933, found on the "London Electoral Roll"
D
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In another document, it has that George was tried on the 8th Jan 1908, he was sentenced to 5 Years Penal Servitude, Wormwood Scrubs Prison. He is aged 43 and a carpenter and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
ADDED On the 1911 census there is a George Stevens, age 46, born in Cambridge in Lydford Devon.
Moderator comment: Edited for content. Full 1911 census details removed. Rootschat policy has not changed http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355485.0
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In another document, it has that George was tried on the 8th Jan 1908, he was senced to 5 Years Penal Servitude, Wormwood Scrubs Prison. He is aged 43 and a carpenter and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
ADDED On the 1911 census there is a George Stevens, age 46, married, a carpenter born in Cambridge in Dartmoor prison.
Thank you, that is one certainly to follow up and the other thing to get is Maud's Birth Cert.
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:) Accept that although I do not know why change from Lilian to middle name Edith for Florence?
Also why did Ellen look after a 3 year old not a 1 year old?
Keyboard86
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I think we should have sympathy with this poor woman, perhaps she just could not cope with all of her children, she might well have been suffering ill health herself and her mother could not cope with all of Ellen's children
LM
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:) Also why did Ellen look after a 3 year old not a 1 year old?
Keyboard86
You've lost me on this bit
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I think we should have sympathy with this poor woman, perhaps she just could not cope with all of her children, she might well have been suffering ill health herself and her mother could not cope with all of Ellen's children
LM
Accepted, although I do not think the mother of the children with Maud led a great life?
Keyboard86
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I think we should have sympathy with this poor woman, perhaps she just could not cope with all of her children, she might well have been suffering ill health herself and her mother could not cope with all of Ellen's children
LM
I agree with that and when you look back at these records it certainly make you think, we certainly have it easier these days.
Thank you all very much for your hard work this evening there are certainly some ideas to follow up on.
Cheers
David
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It is rewarding to get stuck in with some results, sadly we might not solve the so called George Ernest Stevens, although one FT online gives a birth date we may not find that is correct either, he might not have been registered as G E Stevens.
Please try 1939 with the address shown 1933
LM
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I can only think that the word Adopted should have Fostered cause Maud was living back with the family in 1933, found on the "London Electoral Roll"
What was this address in 1933 please
Louisa Maud
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Morning
Maud lived at 23 Milton Road, Poplar in 1933 & 34, she married in 1939 and moved to 48 Grove Rd, Wanstead where she worked for the Lyons Corner Co.
David
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There is a George Thomas Stevens reg Mar qtr 1864 Downham on free BDM, but he is not coming up on the GRO index?
Jennifer
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There is a George Thomas Stevens reg Mar qtr 1864 Downham on free BDM, but he is not coming up on the GRO index?
Jennifer
Maybe because it is indexed as Steevens ;D
STEEVENS, GEORGE THOMAS mothers maiden name CHAPMAN
1864 March Quarter in DOWNHAM Volume 04B Page 394
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According to a tree on Ancestry I found the following
George Ernest Stevens
birth 13/10/1863
Bethnal Green
shown as marrying Ellen Shuttleworth
I then looked at baptisms and came up with the following
George Ernest Stevens born 13/10/1863
baptised 15/11/1863
St Philip Bethnal Green
address 6 Cambridge Road
parents George and Charlotte
occ Shoemaker
Is this the right man?
LM
Louisa Maud
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Please try 1939 with the address shown 1933
LM
Who is it you are trying to find in 1939? Ellen Jane is with her dad and daughter, shown as married but no George. I do believe that we cannot give transcriptions from the 1939 register.
Kath
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We can't Kath but I thought for myself I would try to find them
Found the following, on from my previous baptisms information
1871
RG10/478 FOLIO 58 PAGE 28
21 Barnet St Bethnal Green
George Stevens 41 Shoemaker born Finsbury
Charlotte 35 Wilts
Martha 9 Shoreditch
GEORGE 9 Bethnal Green RUPTURED? WHAT DOES THIS MEAN
Mar 5 Bethnal Green
Albert 3 Bethnal Green
I do believe from memory his father wasn't George on his marriage
IS THIS HIM?
Louisa Maud
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1871 Charlotte Stevens shown as being born Wilts
1881 George Stevens aged 19 bootmaker on census with Edwin and Silvera Stevens as a cousin
Silvera possibly nee Levy
1891 Charlotte Stevens aged 55 living with Edwin and Silvera born Wilts as a cousin
Is there a connection or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Louisa Maud
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I looked at Downham 1864 as this matched up with his court records.
Jennifer
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I looked at Downham 1864 as this matched up with his court records.
Jennifer
I think the Downham one may have died young
Deaths Dec 1866
STEVENS George T age 3
Downham 4b 230
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I have done more research on George's family but will hold on to it till the originator comes back
Louisa Maud
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Thanks Rosie, saved be looking for him. :D
Jennifer
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1901 census 29 Berwick Road Walthamstow
Charlotte Stevens wid 64 born Ford Wilts
George son 36 single Tea warehouseman Bethnal Green
Albert son 31 single fishmonger Bethnal Green
Jennifer
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Could be our man as father was a Tea grocer?
Jennifer
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Just following on from this other possibility
In another document, it has that George was tried on the 8th Jan 1908, he was sentenced to 5 Years Penal Servitude, Wormwood Scrubs Prison. He is aged 43 and a carpenter and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
Moderator comment: Edited for content. Full 1911 census details removed. Rootschat policy has not changed http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355485.0
In 1901 RG13/2118 f87 p17 The same George Stevens is in Dartmoor age 39 occ Wheelwright (which ties in with some of the prison records) Single born Cambridge
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1881 Charlotte does have a son Albert shown as aged 13 along with
Martha aged 19
Mary aged 15
George aged 52 born Finsbury
Charlotte aged 45 born Wilts
1891 Charlotte aged 55 born Wilts living with Silvana and Edwin Stevens, I have not found a marriage for Charlotte to George as yet but I am wondering if the surname Goodin or Goodwin is within this family ??
Louisa Maud
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On marriage
George Ernest to Stevens to Ellen Jane Shuttleworth 1905 it is stated his father was Edward a tea grocer
LM
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What a confusing amount of information, names that don't match but occupation that do and it looks like the family finished up in Walthamstow to add to the pot!!
Jennifer
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George Stevens married Charlotte Hillier Tottenham 7/11/1858
Added Ellen Jane Shuttleworth from Tottenham on their marriage certificate!
Jennifer
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MMN Hillier ties up with all siblings on 1871 with George and Charlotte 21 Barnet St Bethnal Green
Louisa Maud
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The brother Albert Stevens on 1901 census occ. fishmonger, Ellen Jane Shuttleworth father's occ. 1901 census fishmonger!
Jennifer
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According to a tree on Ancestry I found the following
George Ernest Stevens
birth 13/10/1863
Bethnal Green
shown as marrying Ellen Shuttleworth
I then looked at baptisms and came up with the following
George Ernest Stevens born 13/10/1863
baptised 15/11/1863
St Philip Bethnal Green
address 6 Cambridge Road
parents George and Charlotte
occ Shoemaker
Is this the right man?
LM
Louisa Maud
Hello
There's been a lot going on since Sunday, just trying to catch up, Louisa this looks very promising, but it does say that George is the father where as on the his marriage cert his father's name is Edward but his name could have been George Edward and he might be known as Edward.
The family did end up living in Walthamstow Ellen and Jane died there.
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It has been quite challenge for us " chasing" George Edward but interesting, pity he had aliases
Louisa Maud
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It has been quite challenge for us " chasing" George Edward but interesting, pity he had aliases
Louisa Maud
Hello again Louisa
Can I ask what web site you used to find George's baptism
David
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Ancestry baptisms, hope I was right?
LM
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Don't think so, I've just had a look and it is the Baptism of George Stevens and not George Ernest Stevens but it could be a bit more research on my part I think.
I must thank you again for the work you have put into this.
David
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As I said, according to a family tree on Ancestry there is a baptism details as I gave you
born 13/10/1863 and baptised looks like 15/11/1863
Have you had a look at the Ancestry family trees
Louisa Maud
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Just following on from this other possibility
In another document, it has that George was tried on the 8th Jan 1908, he was sentenced to 5 Years Penal Servitude, Wormwood Scrubs Prison. He is aged 43 and a carpenter and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
ADDED On the 1911 census there is a George Stevens, age 46, married, a carpenter born in Cambridge in Dartmoor prison.
In 1901 RG13/2118 f87 p17 The same George Stevens is in Dartmoor age 39 occ Wheelwright (which ties in with some of the prison records) Single born Cambridge
Evening Katherinem
Finally got round in checking the Crime records for George and the more I study these the more convinced I am this is our man.
You mentioned and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
where did you find this?
I have ordered Maud's birth cert and it will be interesting to see who the father is cause according to these George was in prison when she was born.
Could someone explain what Lar-N.L.S and S.L.S mean in the offence column
Cheers
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When the birth cert comes you need to remember that a married woman could name her husband as father without him being present at registration. To name anyone else as father, the father should give the registrar permission to name him. The registrar wouldn't check that the husband had been around 9 months before.
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Evening Katherinem
Finally got round in checking the Crime records for George and the more I study these the more convinced I am this is our man.
You mentioned and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
where did you find this?
Hi,
It is on FindMyPast. Details are:
2 Months, Middlesex Sessions, 20th August, 1877 (attempted fraud), as Edward Perry.
6 Months, Middlesex Sessions, 3rd December, 1877 (stealing harness &c,), as Ernest Perry.
6 Weeks, Cambridge Police Court, 25th October, 1878 (stealing trousers), as John Carruthers.
3 Months, Cambridge Sessions, 2nd January 1879 (stealing cigars), as Ernest Perry.
7 Years Penal Servitude, Middlesex Sessions, 9th June 1879 (stealing books, &c), as John Shaw.
18 Months, Winchester Assizes, 9th November 1886 (stealing boots), as John Perry.
18 Months, Oxford Assizes, 24th June 1889 (burglary), as Charles Atkinson.
9 Months, Oxford Sessions, 5th January, 1891 (stealing bag, &c.) as Charles Atkinsons.
10 Years Penal Servitude, Nottingham Assizes, 17th March, 1892 (burglary, & c., 4 cases), as George Stevens.
1 Year and Licence Revoked, Clerkenwell Police Court, 5th April, 1900 (failing to report), as George Stevens.
4 Years Penal Servitude and 3 Years Police Supervision (consecutive with above sentence), South London Sessions, 9th May, 1900 (receiving) as George Stevens.
I am pretty convinced this is your man. As to fathers name and occupation on his marriage cert, it would be wise to keep a very open mind :)
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He looks as if he was a naughty boy as a teenager judging by date his first offence, what a history ?.
I would have thought someone in the family must have known a great deal about this man and most likely kept it to themselves
Louisa Maud
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Morning to you all
Thanks a lot for the details Katherinem that is a great find and something for me to have a look at this evening, as Louisa maud said such a naughty boy and at such a young age.
I have now got to start looking for the Marriage of Perry & Stevens (perhaps his mum & dad)
Thanks again what would we do without Rootschatters.
David
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"I have now got to start looking for the Marriage of Perry & Stevens (perhaps his mum & dad)"
Sorry, think I have lost the plot, where do they come in?
Louisa Maud
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It's just a thought if you look at his alias's, he used the surname Perry more than once, could that be his mothers maiden name!!!
Cheers
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So are we looking in the Cambridge area, there are a lot of marriages Steven/Perry country wide , needle in haystack
His first 2 sentences at the age of about 13 (?) were in London, are you looking for a London marriage or Cambridge, he used many alias's
LM
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His first 2 sentences at the age of about 13 (?) were in London, are you looking for a London marriage or Cambridge, he used many alias's
LM
Looking at the first punishment, it gives his age as 18, so birth date c1859. It looks like he got younger over the years.
It would be a good idea, to look at any newspaper articles for the different convictions. With any luck there might be more information.
He is certainly an interesting chap.
Kath
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He is an interesting chap , he certainly has me confused now as I thought we had "got him" born in London, he married quite late in life 43 I think from memory, don't even know if that was correct either, wonder if there was another wife or children around, just a thought.
LM
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He is an interesting chap , he certainly has me confused now as I thought we had "got him" born in London, he married quite late in life 43 I think from memory, don't even know if that was correct either, wonder if there was another wife or children around, just a thought.
LM
Looking at his convictions, he was imprisoned for 9 months at Oxford in Jan 1891 as Charles Atkinson. On the 1891 census, in Oxford prison there is a Charles Atkinson, a carpenter, aged 32 (1859), born in Nottingham and married. A possibility?
Kath
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Just following on from this other possibility
In another document, it has that George was tried on the 8th Jan 1908, he was sentenced to 5 Years Penal Servitude, Wormwood Scrubs Prison. He is aged 43 and a carpenter and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
ADDED On the 1911 census there is a George Stevens, age 46, married, a carpenter born in Cambridge in Dartmoor prison.
In 1901 RG13/2118 f87 p17 The same George Stevens is in Dartmoor age 39 occ Wheelwright (which ties in with some of the prison records) Single born Cambridge
Evening Katherinem
Finally got round in checking the Crime records for George and the more I study these the more convinced I am this is our man.
You mentioned and it gives details of all his aliases and previous convictions going back to 1877, in various places including Middlesex Cambridge, Winchester...
where did you find this?
I have ordered Maud's birth cert and it will be interesting to see who the father is cause according to these George was in prison when she was born.
Could someone explain what Lar-N.L.S and S.L.S mean in the offence column
Cheers
Hello again
I really think Christmas has come early this year, I received Maud's birth cert today (Daughter of Ellen) born 6th Dec 1910 in Stepney Union Workhouse, date of registration 13th Dec 1910, Name, Surname and Occupation of Father has a line through it (in other words George was not the father) so Ellen had an affair while George was in Dartmoor.
George was released from Dartmoor 8th Sep 1911 but was sentenced again on the 14 Oct 1913 for 5yrs and sent to Parkhurst.
Rootchatters you have really helped in cracking this Nut what a brilliant outcome.
Thanks again
David
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In that case David "happy Christmas"
Glad you are pleased with the outcome
Only to pleased to have been one of a few who helped solve at lease one problem
Happy hunting David
Louisa Maud
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Any more updates David?
Louisa Maud
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Any more updates David?
Louisa Maud
Evening
As you know George was released from Dartmoor on 8th Sep 1911 and Ellen had another daughter Jane Catherine born 7 May 1912, we have just received her Birth cert which shows George as being the father. Jane Catherine was born a month early so it looks as if George had his wicked way as soon as he was let out of prison or.!!!
Would really like to find his Birth documents so a hunting I must go.
Just one question when George got married in 1906 would he have to have shown his birth certificate for proof of ID to the Vicar?
David
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Just one question when George got married in 1906 would he have to have shown his birth certificate for proof of ID to the Vicar?
David
No he wouldn't
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I was also given the information that upon marriage it had to be proved you were baptised, but I am not so sure about that to be honest, someone with more knowledge than me might know.
If one had to show birth certs for marriage it would make it very difficult for someone trying to cover things up, like a member of my own family on 1898
Louisa Maud
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Many people who married around that time may not have had their births registered. Registration of births was not always done until they changed the system in the late 1870's.
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That is true Rosie, I have never found anything out about my husband's Gt grandfather until he married in 1869, his marriage cert was a complete mess and it wasn't till 1871 census and the birth of their first child that I discovered the correct surname. Thank goodness things are much better recorded nowadays.
LM