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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: alison300 on Tuesday 04 April 17 20:11 BST (UK)
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I’m trying to find the diary for 1st July 1917 when Pte. 2523 Frederick Morris, 1st/4th Bn., formerly 2nd/4th Bn., London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) died.
I’m confused by 1st/4th - is this the 1st or 4th Battalion?
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My Grandfather was in the (City of London Regiment) 25th Battalion Royal Fusiliers. I too was interested to find out what he was doing on January 4 1917, when his Captain Frederick Courtney Selous was killed in action. Was he with Selous at the time of his death ?. Apparently their war diaries were destroyed due to enemy action in WW2. Whether some survived I do not know. As for 1/4th problem I looked it up on Google and could not understand the explanation. On Frederick's burial details he is in the "1st London" Regiment". Commonwealth War Graves Commission site.
My Grandfather - Peter Donaldson, Private No. 13512, 25th Battalion Royal Fusiliers. Survived the war.
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if you post your grandfather's name and no. on this site someone on here will be able to check if his Battalion's war diary has survived. i'm currently searching those listed on a war memorial and most of the diaries have survived and are on Ancestry. I just struggle getting my head around the London Reg/Royal Fusiliers!
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Before the outbreak of WW1 the battalion would be the 4th (City of London) Battalion, London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers).
After the war started the Territorial Force was authorised to form two or more separate battalions which became 1st/4th and 2nd/4th etc.
See War-formed battalions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Regiment
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Good morning,
Sorry tonepad but thats wrong. Before war started it would have been 1st (city of london) battalion (royal fusiliers). Previously 10th middlesex volunteers until 1908.
At the start of the war they raised extra battalions, so 1st/1st up to 1st/28th. 2nd/1st up to 2nd/28th and so on. Not all the london regt battalions had that many but you can check on the "long long trail".
So he started in 2nd/4th and was transferred to 1st/4th
John915
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Back again,
Sorry tonepad, ignore my last. Not reading it correctly as I should quite obviously be in bed getting some sleep.
John915
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Maybe a typo, but the actual date of death is 1 July 1916 according to his medal card and grave information.
Most war diaries are available on ancestry or at the National Archives.
Service Records were nearly all lost during WWII due to enemy action.
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1/4th served initially in 3rd Indian (Lahore) Division, the war diary for Jan 1915 to Oct 1915 is at the National Archives at WO 95/3923/3.
The remainder of their service is covered in WO 95/2954/1. Both downloadable for £3.50 (new price!).
If you have Ancestry I'll provide a link.
maxD
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A general thought for those confused by the London Regiment and the Royal Fusiliers (City of London) Regiment - an indispensable reference for the Great War is the Long Long Trail which explains clearly more aspects of the Great War than most of us can think of. This page http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/?s=london
has the entries for both regiments among others - just be careful with those with Fusiliers in the title!!
maxD
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barryd
For war diaries and more info, see http://www.25throyalfusiliers.co.uk/formation.html, click the war diary tab.
As is normal, officers were mentioned, other ranks only exceptionally. The entry for 4 Jan 1917 records the death of Capt Selous.
maxD
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The 1/4 London Regt. were at Hebuterne France on 1/7/16 which is just south of Gommecourt which is the name of the battle they were involved in. This was of course the 1st. day of the Somme offensive.
They started the day with 32 Officers & 890 OR's. By the end they had just 7 Officers & 356 OR's.
Most were killed by shelling.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101465221
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Thank you EVERYONE.
I'm still bit confused ... so 1st/4th is actually 4th Bn., if I'm looking on the Long, Long Trail?
where it says in Aug14 they were on Isle of Wight; and were attached to 3rd Division on 1st July 1917? Just want to make sure i'm looking at the right division.
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Not quite!
the Isle of Wight was where 4th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London) Regiment was in Aug 14
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-fusiliers-city-of-london-regiment/
1/4th (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers) of the London Regiment is the one you are after, in London in Aug 14
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/london-regiment/
Head hurt yet? :)
maxD
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Thanks MaxD - I think I've finally got it! :)
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Thank you MaxD and for your personal message. It's my own fault. I should have asked my grandfather about his service in German East Africa. I knew little about the subject, certainly nothing about Selous and his death there.
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You are not alone in wishing you had asked more! While not the same as personal memories, the very detailed war diary transcripts on the site give a clear picture of what his battalion was doing and where and it would be fair to assume that the diaries are telling the story of grandad's war.
maxD