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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: malijibic on Wednesday 05 April 17 17:13 BST (UK)
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Up to now I have two Palfrey Rowlands.
senior Palfrey, son of Thomas Rowlands and Mary Palfrey born 1765 Llangollen
junior Palfrey son of Palfrey Rowlands and Elizabeth ?, born around 1800 at Caernarvon.
Palfrey junior married Catherine Hughes at Llandwrog in 1830.
1851 census has the family at Llechylched Anglesey
Palffrey Rowlands 51
Cathrine Rowlands 49
Thomas Rowlands 10
James Porter Rowlands 5
Cathrine Rowlands 17
But checking GRO records for Rowlands children with mother's maiden name Hughes gave me another Palfrey Rowlands born 1844 Caernarvon reg district.
I can not find anything more regarding this Palfrey, have sent for his birth certificate.
I know that I am impatient and should wait until I receive the bc, but surely there is some informatio out there about him f I could find it.
Any help or suggestions welcome
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I thought I had a theory, but unfortunately I think I'm only confusing things even more!
A Joseph Palfrey Rowlands married in Carnarvon in 1843, and on the same page is Ellin Hughes. This appears to be them in 1851 at Mount Pleasant, Llanbeblig:
Joseph P Rowland 39 Mariner b Caernarvon
Ellin Rowland 25
George P Rowland 7
James Rowland 2
Ellin Rowland 3 M
ROWLANDS, ELLIN MMN: HUGHES, 1851 M Quarter in CARNARVON Volume 27 Page 325
Strangely I could only find one James Rowland/s MMN Hughes, and that was James Porter Rowlands who, according to the 1851 census you posted, is the son of Palfrey & Catherine, although the age doesn't fit with the birth reg, which was Sept Q 1848. Then to confuse things even more, Familysearch has an 1849 baptism for a James Porter Rowlands, son of Joseph Palfrey Rowlands & Ellen ???
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FM98-9BD
I had thought that George P Rowland might have been your missing Palfrey, but there are two birth entries, both Carnarvon, both MMN Hughes:
ROWLANDS, GEORGE 1843 D Quarter Volume 27 Page 318
ROWLANDS, PALFREY 1844 J Quarter Volume 27 Page 337
I lose track of Joseph & Ellin after 1851, but George (Palfrey?) becomes a baker and by 1871 is in the workhouse.
Also, although Joseph Palfrey Rowland/s gives his birth as c 1812, Familysearch has this baptism:
7 Oct 1821 Llanbeblig, Caernarvon
Joseph Palphrey Griffith Or Rowlands
Parents: Palphrey Rowlands & Jane Griffith
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FM98-JPX
I'm completely intrigued now as to what the birth certificate for Palfrey has to say!
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There are a few Merchant Seamen records for Joseph Palphrey Rowlands. One dated January 1845 states he was born 2 Oct 1821 at Caernarvon & first went to sea as a boy in Oct 1837. There is a description of him and lots of dates & numbers I won't pretend to understand.
Another gives his voyages 1853-1855.
If Palfrey s/o Palfrey Rowlands and Elizabeth ? was born around 1800, it's possible that Joseph is his illegitimate (?) son.
Possible death in Carnarvon in 1858, Joseph Rowlands aged 39.
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Thank you for your interest, I would like to know how to find the Seamens records for Joseph Palfrey.
I think that I have Palfrey' brood in order
Palfrey senior had four (that I know of) children
1790 Mary illegitimate daughter of Palphrey Rowlands. mother not named on baptism record.
1791 Mary died, the burial records show her as the daughter of Palfrey Rowlands, mother not mentioned
1800 Caernarvon, Palfrey son of Palfrey Rowlands and Elizabeth his wife. Many hours spent looking for a marriage but as yet I have not found one.
1821 Caernarvon Joseph Palfrey illegitimate child of Palfrey Rowlands and Jane Griffith
1832 marriage of Palfrey Rowlands and Jane Giffith, Llanbeblig, Caernarvon.
I assume Eliabeth died but I can not find burial
1833 George Palfrey Rowlands son of Palfrey and Jane Rowlands
Will pot what the bc says when it arrives, I suppose I will just have to be patient
thank you
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The seaman's records are on Find my Past. The search doesn't bring up his middle name, although it is shown on the images.
I'm not very good at being patient with certificates either :)
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bc
25 May1844 at the Poorhouse, Caernarvon, Palfrey,
father Palfrey Rowlands,
mother Catherine Rowlands formerly Hughes,
Father's occupation Tanner.
informant Catherine Rowlands, Poorhouse, Caernarvon.
I have been unable to find any more information about him.
Except that he was not with the family in 1851 nor the following censuses.
Spent years looking for Palfrey senior so maybe I will get the answer to what happened to this one.
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So you have a birth cert for Palfrey s/o Palfrey & Catherine but no sign of him on the census, and a census entry for James Porter Rowlands s/o Palfrey & Catherine but no birth entry - is that right?
Could the answer be that they are the same person? With a DoB of 25 May1844, Palfrey would have been six, almost seven, whereas James is recorded as five, however, on the 1861 census James is shown as aged 17 (1844) :-\
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Found a James Rowlands, weaver, in 1881 and 1891 census.
He could be the son of Catherine and Palfrey.
Can not find a marriage certificate.
1881 has him married to Mary, born Nevin
1891 has him married to Rebeca born Anglesey.
Tried to find another James, could be son of Joseph Palfrey but as yet no luck.
Work in progress is the kindest description I can think of to the task of finding whose birth was registered as Palfrey in 1844.
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I don't know if this adds anything but I searched for Palfrey in transcribed Anglesey marriage records and found a marriage for a daughter of Palfrey Rowlands:
27 July 1855 at (St Cybi's) parish church, Holyhead - Daniel Owens, 30, b, blacksmith of Summer Hill, son of Richard Owen, blacksmith married Elizabeth Rowlands,25, s, Summer Hill, dau. of Palfrey Rowlands, tanner. Elizabeth Rowlands signed by mark. Witnesses were Edward Morris (by mark) and Palfrey Rowlands. The image is on FindMyPast.
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Many thanks, Elizabeth was missing after 1851, not with the family.
Now another one of the siblings traced.
Thank you
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Apologies, replied on my sister's computer, hence the different username.
Found the marriage on find my past, certainly one of "our" Rowlands. Palfrey's signatureis proof enough.
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Ellen Ann Rowlands, shown as the daughter of James in 1881 & 1891, married Thomas Jones Davies at St Mark's Cheetham Hill, Lancashire on 21 Jun 1902.
Her father is confirmed as James Rowlands, Weaver (Deceased) & one of the witnesses is Kate Paulfre [Palfrey] Rowlands.
Katherine & Ellen Ann Rowlands are both servants in the same household in Broughton, Lancs in 1901 - RG13/3727/127/11
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have now found the marriage and 1911 census for Ellen, Catherine was living with her sister,(down as sister in law to head of household)
Ancestry has thrown an answer to the Palfrey (maybe known as James Porter)
Baptism at Llanbeblig
August 1844 James Porter son of Palfrey and Catherine Rowlands. This must be the child registered as Palfrey in June 1844.
1848 James Porter son of Joseph Palfrey and Ellen Rowlands.
I wonder why did the half brothers decide to call their sons James Porter.
Thanks for all the help.
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I wonder why did the half brothers decide to call their sons James Porter.
I haven't looked into the relationship, but presumably connected to James Potter Rowlands born c1796 & d1861
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Found a James Rowlands, weaver, in 1881 and 1891 census.
He could be the son of Catherine and Palfrey.
Can not find a marriage certificate.
1881 has him married to Mary, born Nevin
1891 has him married to Rebeca born Anglesey.
Not sure if you have this now, but in 1881 James & Mary were living at Rhydlyniog, Pwllheli & there is a burial at Nevin 9 Oct 1881 Mary Rowlands, Rhydlyniog, Pwllheli, aged 39.
Possible 2nd marriage at Carnarvon Oct-Dec 1882 11b/781 - Rebecca Jones is on the same page.
As the MMN for Ellen Ann's birth was also Jones, there seems to be a choice of two marriages of James Rowlands to a Mary Jones - 1872 in Carnarvon or 1875 in Pwllheli.
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Many thanks, I had found the burial of Mary Rowlands on yffor website.
have you found the church records somewhere, FindMyPast is not very obliging with this family.
Will have to buy his mc before I put this to rest.
Diolch
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The burial image is on FindMyPast, but nothing for the marriages unfortunately.
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will have another look at FindMyPast.
thank you very much
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Received Catherine Rowlands birth certificate.
8 June 1876,at Hughes terrace, Nevin, father James Rowlands,weaver
Mother Mary Rowlands formerly Jones
informant James Rowlands Hughes Terrace Nevin.