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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: stapler40 on Monday 10 April 17 23:44 BST (UK)
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Hello:
I would very much appreciate help in locating a Sarah May Coldham, born London 1877. I found her on a 1901 Canada census, listed as a Sarah Stoneham. The census gives a birthdate as 28 June 1877 however I am unable to locate any index for 1877 with a Sarah Coldham, born London. I did locate a Amy Sarah Coldham, born London 1874. Also, on the 1901 Canada census she gives 1884 as the year of immigration to Canada. The passenger records available on Ancestry begin in 1890, so if anyone could suggest an additional record that would be of help.
Thank you for all your suggestions.
Stapler40
Toronto
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I found her on a 1901 Canada census, listed as a Sarah Stoneham
Was she married at that time?
Have you got Coldham from her marriage cert?
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Yes, Name on wedding certificate: Coldham..father..John Coldham and mother: Elizabeth Ferguson.
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Her 1911 census details are consistent with those of 1901.
I did notice that on the marriage registration in 1898 that she put her age as 23 giving a birth year of 1874/75.
I also notice that the two older children were born before the marriage.
However, I can't find a birth for a Sarah Coldham mother Ferguson, or Sarah Coldham with no mother, or Sarah Ferguson with no mother anywhere between 1866 and 1886.
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Amy Sarah Coldham born 1874 St Pancras mother's maiden name Williams
What was her father's occupation, so far no baptism or registration, no marriage between Coldham and Ferguson either
Louisa Maud
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There's a marriage in Toronto, York, 9 February 1896
Thomas Pedder
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Elizabeth Coldham
Elizabeth was a widow, 46 years old, born England, parents James Alexander + Emma Ferguson
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Sarah Coldham married John Stoneham, Toronto, 1898.
Age 23, born London, Eng
Father John Coldham, mother Elizabeth Ferguson
Sorry, that's the one in the question!
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Burial in Toronto, 25 April 1904
Elizabeth Pedder
age 61, born England
grave the property of Sarah Stoneham
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Possible baptism?
22 July 1850, St Andrew Holborn
Elizabeth
parents James + Emma Ferguson
14 Dorrington St Brooks Market
father a Compositor
born 7 Sep 1842
also there, James Alexander Ferguson, 27 July 1846, born 4 Feb 1838
(no more details)
In Holborn in 1851. Piece 1514 folio 285 page 57
14 Dorrington St
Emma Ferguson Head Widow 36 Charwoman
James Ferguson Son 13
John Ferguson Son 11
Elizabeth Ferguson Son! 9
all born Middlesex St Andrews
Birth registrations show mother's maiden surname as Green
So, James Ferguson + Emma Green, 1 May 1837, St Giles in the Fields
Of course, whether this is the right Elizabeth remains to be seen.
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Marriage, 26th June 1876, St Clement Danes
John Oborne Coldham, 34, Bachelor, Painter, residence 52 Clement's Lane, father William Coldham, Writer
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Elizabeth Brown, 33, Widow, residence 52 Clement's Lane, father James Fergusson, Compositor
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First marriage
27 June 1859, St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
Albert Thomas Brown, Minor, Bachelor, Porter, residence William Street, father Henry Brown, Farmer
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Elizabeth Ferguson, Minor, Spinster, residence Waterloo Road, father James Alexander Ferguson, Compositor
Elizabeth marked on this one (she signed the second one)
wit Charles Haines, Matilda Haines (X)
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John Osborne Coldham baptised
Holborn St Giles
16/10/1842
father William Mother Rose Hannah
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Can't see John and Elizabeth Coldham in the 1881 census.
But he appears to be in a Holborn lodging house in 1891. Think it says he is married.
1901, age a bit out, looks like him. John Coldham, 63, Painter, born St Giles, a visitor in Hackney Piece 226 folio 43 page 8. Says he is single on that one.
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John Osborne Coldham baptised
Holborn St Giles
16/10/1842
father William Mother Rose Hannah
Yes, that must be him, Louisa!
Still can't see a birth or a baptism of Sarah though.
John
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They are evasive, I wonder if they originated from Scotland as for her father I am olny getting Scotland census
Sarah May I can't pick up either
Louisa Maud
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Age about 16 for Elizabeth's first marriage?
LM
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I see the BROWN family on the 1871 (A*try) in St Andrew Holborn. The father is transcribed as Inas BROWN. Emma Ferguson is with them so that helps!
374/60/9
Maureen
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1871 as above Maureen's reply there are siblings
Emma , not sure if she is 16 or 10 born Clerkenwell, can find her registration so far
Elizabeth Mary aged 7 registered Holborn
Alice aged 2 registered Clerkenwell
Cannot find any of these on 1881, I wonder if they are living a another household and taken on another name,
LM
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William Coldham
married
Rose Hannah Balm
06/04/1836 St Ann's Soho Westminster
Rose Hannah buried St Pancras Chapel 05/08/1851
Baptisms St Giles in Fields
William John 1837
John Osborne ( already shown) 1842
Sarah Ann 1842 St Giles in Fields
LM
PS, can't find them on 1861 so far
William Coldham died 1844 June qtr aged 37, possible death
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Looks like there was another BROWN sibling:
BROWN, HENRY mmn FURGUSON
1867 J Quarter in OF HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 604
In 1871 he's living with uncle John FERGUSON in Holborn. 374/574
On the Workhouse Records on A*try-does this look like Elizabeth with mother and sister Emma:
Name: Elizabeth Brown
Birth Date: 1864
Admission Age: 12
Admission Date: 26 Jan 1876
Discharge Date: 4 Feb 1876
Maureen
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looks as if Emma was discharged to an infirmary, she was, sadly, shown as an imbecile on previous census
we still cannot find Sarah May?
LM
PS, just to complete the parents death I have found a burial of William Coldham 25/05/1844 St Martin in the Fields Camden
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Strange isn't it that we cannot find Sarah, I am sure she must be under a different name ., she wasn't with mother in Workhouse records
Louisa Maud
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Possible
John Coldham workhouse records
15/01/870-25/01/1870
aged 28 "no home"
So, if this is him, where was his wife on 1871, had she left him for someone else ?
This is still not finding Sarah but it is building up a tree for the originator
LM
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Is this peculiar or what?
Sarah born 28/06/1876, workhouse St Giles Bloomsbury, birth exactly a years difference to Sarah birth date already suggested
Father John mother Elizabeth HOLDHAM
baptised St Clements
occupation labourer
LM
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THINK I HAVE GOT HER
Registered birth
Sarah Holahan
1876 St Giles
Mothers maiden name BROWN
REF 1B 591
Louisa Maud
HOLAHAN, SARAH BROWN
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 591
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THINK I HAVE GOT HER
Registered birth
Sarah Holahan
1876 St Giles
Mothers maiden name BROWN
REF 1B 591
Louisa Maud
HOLAHAN, SARAH BROWN
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 591
Well done LM ;D
Her parents married on 26th June 1876 ,mum must have been VERY pregnant at the time if she was born on 28th June.
The GRO index is a typed one,it would be interesting to have seen the original and see how much it looked like Coldham ;D
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Thank you Carol, it has taken me almost all day but hopefully it is a solved mystery although I think if it were me I would purchase the certificate
Will try to find Sarah on 1881, she was only a mere child going abroad, I hope she travelled with a family member
She is shown in workhouse records as being born on 28th June, goodness me!!!
Louisa Maud
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Yes, a great find Louisa!
John
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YIPPEEE!
Well done,Louisa Maud!! :) :)
Maureen
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Thanks folks, it was by accident to start with till I checked it against the maiden name, thank goodness for the GRO allowing us to search by maiden name
Louisa Maud
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Thanks folks, it was by accident to start with till I checked it against the maiden name, thank goodness for the GRO allowing us to search by maiden name
Louisa Maud
Although strictly speaking isn't her mmn- Ferguson? ;D
Carol
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She was Ferguson, then married Mr Brown, Sarah was registered under the next husbands name, married 2 days after Sarah's birth, that is if I am right, and used Brown as her former name, if not it is a huge coincidence
LM
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Wow, Wow, Wow. You folks are amazing. Words cant begin to express the wonder at all the hard work you have produced. Sarah certainly was a mystery throughout her life but I didn't know this extended to her mother. Its going to take me some time to digest all your findings but once again thank you so very much.
Stapler 40
Toronto
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I am sure her certificate will tell you more. Wonder what happened to Mr Brown?
I am sure with the info you have you should be able to compile a substantial family tree
Louisa Maud
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It is a real pity you cannot find any departure or arrival details, bearing in mind Sarah was not an only child I wonder what happened to her siblings, can't find any of them on 1881, frustrating as it is !!
Possible death for Albert Brown, 1874 aged 33 St Pancras, he was 31 on 1871, near enough I would say
Louisa Maud
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Hello LM
First of all thank you once again for the amazing work. Regarding Sarah's departure information, on the 1911 census she states she came to Canada in 1884.
Cheers
Stapler40
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Stapler, are you going to get that birth cert of Sarah Holahan that Louisa Maud found yesterday?
It will prove to us all that she was on the right track.
Don't know if you've ever ordered certs before but they cost £9-25 from the official GRO site and they post anywhere in the world for that price.
GRO Reference: 1876 Sept Quarter in ST GILES Volume 1B Page 591
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Carol
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Hello Carol
yes, I sent for the certificate yesterday. Probably take a week or so.
Cheers
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Good suggestion Carol, I am 100% sure it is her, I do believe Stapler hails from Canada, it would be worth getting
1881 no joy for any of them, ah well!
LM
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Hello Carol
yes, I sent for the certificate yesterday. Probably take a week or so.
Cheers
;D ;D ;D
Can't wait to hear if it's the right one !
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We await news Stapler, please keep us up to date with what you receive, good luck
LM
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Sorry Carol, ditto'd your remarks
LM
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https://personal.uwaterloo.ca/marj/genealogy/ships2.html
This appears to be ships logs 1884, so far I cannot find any names but there are a lot of children on her shipped out, pity we can't find out more
Louisa Maud
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There's a school record for a Henry Brown, born 18 April 1867, admitted to St Andrew's School, Holborn, in August 1876
Parent or Guardian - Elizabeth
address 38 Baldwins ? Holborn
(last school St Alban's Holborn)
left May 1877 No Reason
With so many Henry Browns about, it may or may not be the right one
The Holborn workhouse record said that Emma Brown was sent to Hoxton House, which was an asylum, 9 February 1876.
The Holborn Index to the Register of Lunatics has Emma transferred to Banstead, 28 August 1877. Name/address of relatives column has been left blank for her (sadly)
The Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912, has her entry to Banstead in 1877, and also has the date of discharge, 24 Sep 25 (but it's not a death)
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I am wondering if there really will be anything on the birth certificate that isn't on the record in the St Giles + St George Birth Book that is online (LMA ref P82/GIS/165)
Albeit the name is spelt Holaham rather than Holahan, and indexed as such by ancestry
In the book maiden names of married mothers are given, so it says
date of birth - June 28th
name - Sarah
sex - Female
father's name - John Holaham
mother's name - Elizabeth Brown
(then baptism)
occupation - Labourer
In other words, much in the same format as a birth certificate
Most likely the Master of the Workhouse would have registered the birth.
The GRO ref is, Sep qtr 1876, 1b 591 -
which looks like being the first page of births that quarter for a particular sub district in St Giles (the previous page 590, had only one name indexed rather than the usual ten, according to FreeBMD)
All seven St Giles workhouse births, from June 17th 1876 (Edward Bartholomew) to June 30th 1876 (Ada Morgan) have that same 1b 591 GRO reference.
The next birth in the workhouse book is on 5 July (Ruth Bond, GRO ref 1b 593)
So in very early July 1876, the registrar came down to the workhouse (unless the master went to him with his book?) and registered seven births.
Seems unlikely in any case that John Coldham would have got his own name so drastically wrong. Perhaps the details from the workhouse book were directly transposed into the registrar's book.
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Seems unlikely in any case that John Coldham would have got his own name so drastically wrong. Perhaps the details from the workhouse book were directly transposed into the registrar's book.
Although if John couldn't read or write then it's quite likely that he wasn't aware of his name being spelt incorrectly.If he spoke with an unusual accent or the registrar was a bit deaf,then he may have mishead Coldham for Holaham.
I am always amazed at how you work out or find these records John,I would never have though of 591 being the first on a new page,but it's obvious when you think about it Doh !!! :-[
Carol
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Anymore updates?
Louisa Maud
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Anymore updates?
Louisa Maud
Probably even longer than usual LM due to Easter hols :D
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Gone are the days when one could order a cert on Tuesday and it would arrive on Friday or Saturday the latest
Yes due to Easter it will take longer
LM
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Gone are the days when one could order a cert on Tuesday and it would arrive on Friday or Saturday the latest
Yes due to Easter it will take longer
LM
And the OP lives in Canada ;)
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Yes, I do realise that.
LM
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Hello:
I am still awaiting the certificate. As soon as it arrives you will be apprised.
Thanks
Stapler40
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Thanks for replying, patience is not my best quality !!
LM
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Hello Carol and Louisa:
Finally, the document has arrived...I didn't think it would take that long:
Where and When: 28 June 1876, Workhouse Vinegar Yard
Name: Sarah
Sex: girl
Father: John Holahan
Mother: Elizabeth Holahan formerly Brown
Fathers Occupation: Labour
Informant: J Rawteley Master Workhouse St. Giles.