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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: noland01 on Friday 14 April 17 10:05 BST (UK)

Title: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: noland01 on Friday 14 April 17 10:05 BST (UK)
Was just wondering if anyone could help re. locating a marriage in the US,probably New York but not certain.

It concerns a Patrick Brennan whom I knew died in 1914 after emigrating to the USA but of whom I was unaware he ever married.
Found a record recently on Family Search giving the details of a Patrick Brennan(age 38) of 223 East 23rd St. who died 23rd April 1914 New York City, Richmond, New York, United States.It states his parents were Philip Brennan and Margaret Nolan.Born 10th November 1875 and that he was married.
Would be pretty certain that this person is the same one as in my tree.Correct parents,date of death same as memory card here.Only difference is birth as I have him born October 1871 from baptismal records in Dunleckney Parish Carlow.
Have had no luck re. a marriage with Irish records and the family search record has no attached image.
Was wondering if anyone could point me in any direction that might yield a record.Not really interested in pay sites as this is a distant relative and at this stage have much of my tree completed.

Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: shellyesq on Friday 14 April 17 11:36 BST (UK)
If he married in New York City, there is a groom's index at www.italiangen.org.  With such a common name, it might help to find when he emigrated to narrow down the time frame and to see if there was a specific address that he was going to.  If he was in the US in 1910, it might help to find him on the census, which is available on Family Search.

It's unlikely you will find an actual NYC marriage record from that time frame online.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: noland01 on Friday 14 April 17 12:53 BST (UK)
Thanks for that.

To be honest have no idea as to when he left Ireland.Assume it would be after 1890 or so going by his birth as being either 1871 or 1875.None of his siblings left Ireland so imagine he was 18 or so before he left.
He is not with his family on 1901 Irish Census.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Carlow/Agha/Rathedon/1038537/

And no real possibilities elsewhere in Ireland that seem even plausible so assuming he left between 1890 or so and before 1901.
There is no record of him marrying in Ireland that I can find but of course its always a possibility he married in Dublin etc after leaving Carlow and before going to the US.

Commemorated here on family headstone;

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/Dunleckney_Graves_incriptions.pdf



Erected to the Memory of Philip Brennan of Ratheadon who
depd this Life March 15th 1840 aged 60 yrs. Also his Beloved
wife Mary Brennan who depd this Life March 20th 1861 aged
75 years. Also his son Thomas Brennan depd this life Nov 2nd
1839 aged 26 years. Also his son John Brennan Depd this life
July 2nd 1847 aged 22 years. And also his daughter Elizabeth
Dowling depd this life Aug 5th 1860 aged 40 yrs.
Erected in Loving Memory of Philip Brennan, Ratheadon who
died 5th April 1875 aged 56 yrs. Also his daughter Mary died
21st Nov 1894 aged 21 yrs. His son Michael died 3rd Oct 1914
aged 47 yrs. His son Patrick died in U.S. America 22nd April
1914, aged 40 yrs. Also his wife Margaret Brennan died 18th
Nov 1919 aged 83 yrs. His son John Brennan died 17th June
1942 aged 79 yrs


Love the way age's were so fluid at that time.He was 38 on US death cert(1875),40 on headstone(born 1873)42 on his memory card (1872)and Baptised in 1871.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 15 April 17 03:21 BST (UK)
Additional details from the death record
Event place - New York City, Richmond, New York
Address - 223 East 23rd Street
Residence place - NYC
Occupation - Clerk
Cemetery - Calvary

1914 New York, New York, City Directory, page 148
Patrick Brennan   Writer  h223 E22d
  Could this be the same man as above? 

1915 New York, New York, City Directory
Kath Brennan  (wid Patk)  h413 E22nd
   Could this be his wife, moving down the block a bit after his death?

1913 New York Directory
Patrick Brennan  clerk  h223 E22nd
Kath/Cath Brennan (at the above address) is not shown in the 1914 nor the 1913 directory

1912 New York Directory
Patrick Brennan   Writer  h223 E22d

1911 New York Directory
Patrick Brennan  watchman   h223 E22d

1910 New York Directory
Patrick Brennan  watchman  h 165 E113th  and another one h 129 3d av

1910 District 0974, Manhattan Ward 18, New York
Patrick Brennan, age 32, marriage 1, married 4 years.  Born Ireland as were parents.  Immigrated 1906(?)  Watchman, Express? Company
Catherine, wife, age 30
Patrick Jr., son, age 1
Address:  223 22nd Street East

Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 15 April 17 03:30 BST (UK)
I have to leave for a bit, but could this be Catherine and her children in 1920 (I'm not taking the time to check the details; apologies if it is for a different Brennan family).   ;)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRXC-DS8?mode=g&i=25&cc=1488411
Catherine Brennan and her three children.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 15 April 17 04:08 BST (UK)
Back for a moment:
Patrick's wife could have been named Katherine Woods.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: noland01 on Saturday 15 April 17 05:38 BST (UK)
Wow thats a lot of info so thank you.

Looking at the 1920 census see that Catherine Brennan is a widow with 3 children, Patrick, Mary and Philip.
Know that the Patrick Brennan I am looking at was the son of a Philip Brennan.His Grandfather was also Philip and he had both a nephew and grandnephew of the same name.
Can I ask how you might think he maiden name was Woods.
If this is the correct person then according to her 1920 census she was born in Ireland but has no immigration year.
Found 16 Catherine Woods on Irish 1901 census unmarried and of about the approximate age but none really stand out for any reason .Of course a whole load of Kate's,Kathys etc so may have a look when I get time.
Nothing showing up for any marriage in Ireland for  Patrick Brennan to any Catherine,Katherine,Kate etc during the relevant  period so assuming they married in US.

Regarding the New York addresses,have no idea of relative areas ,distances etc
Must look at later US census returns and see if I can find them.Catherine Mary and Patrick are very common names but Philip less so.

Thanks again as felt this was a total dead end until your info.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 15 April 17 06:50 BST (UK)
One of the pay sites has a social security application/claims index for Philip (Patrick's son).  Supposedly, his parents were Patrick Brennan and Katherine Woods and "this" Philip was born January 1914, New York City.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 15 April 17 07:32 BST (UK)
Looking at the pay site again (using different searches this time), all three children from the 1920 census have social security applications/claims indexes and the mother's name was written down as Katherine/Kate Woods.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 15 April 17 07:51 BST (UK)
Possibly Katherine's death?

Catherine Brennan, died 16 April 1927, Manhattan, Widowed
Born: Ireland, c1881
Buried:  Calvary
Parents: Patrick Woods born Ireland; Ellen Keegan born Ireland
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WY8-VJ7

1930 Manhattan Census for the three Brennan children
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RCF-297?mode=g&i=17&cc=1810731
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 15 April 17 09:30 BST (UK)
Pay site has (social security app/claims index):
Patrick Brennan, born 18 November 1908 New York
Parents:  Patrick Brennan, Katherine Woods

familysearch site has
Patrick Brennan, born 18 November 1908, Manhattan
Parents:  Patrick Brennan and Margaret Nolan
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WC2-SP2

 ???
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: noland01 on Saturday 15 April 17 10:39 BST (UK)
Lisa thats a lot of new info worth looking at.Thanks.

The thing that stands out for me is the son named Philip.Know its only a small detail but sometimes its the little bits that help narrow down things.

Haven't subscribed to any pay sites for a few years as thought I had most of my tree completed but every time I revisit any particular branch it usually seems that a little more info becomes available.It really is an never ending ball of string to be honest!!!!
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 15 April 17 11:10 BST (UK)
Pay site has (social security app/claims index):
Patrick Brennan, born 18 November 1908 New York
Parents:  Patrick Brennan, Katherine Woods

familysearch site has
Patrick Brennan, born 18 November 1908, Manhattan
Parents:  Patrick Brennan and Margaret Nolan
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WC2-SP2

 ???


Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007
Philip John Brennan - 11 January 1914 New York City - passed away October 1977 - Parents -  Patrick Brennan. Mother Katherine Woods.
Dec 1936 -  Name listed as Philip John Brennan - 29 Dec 1987: Name listed as Philip Brennan

U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014 - Philip Brennan - 11 January 1914 - October 1977 -
Last Benefit10011, New York, New York, New York,.

Sandra
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 15 April 17 11:14 BST (UK)
Anc tree indicates that the Philip Brennan listed above was married to Jesslyn Stanley
19171967
Born October 1917 - Amsterdam, Montgomery, New York and passed away August 1967
-Brooklyn, Kings, New York. (no source given)

The  couple had a son listed as Philip Brennan born 4/3/1946 New York who passed away 15/5/2004 Brooklyn New York.
SSN issued New York (1960-1961)

U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 - Philip Brennan - Philip John Brennan - 4 March 1946  New York - 15 May 2004 - New York.
Oct 1961-  Name listed as Philip John Brennan -  20 May 2004: Name listed as Philip Brennan

Sandra

Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 15 April 17 11:33 BST (UK)
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 - Mary W Brennan - 8 March 1911 New York  passed away 11 January 1973 -
Parents Patrick Brennan and Kate Woods.

SSDI -    Mary M. Brennan - 8 March 1911 - 4 December 1999
Last Residence 10033 New York, New York, New York.
US Public records - Mary M Brennan - 186 Pinehurst Ave Apt 6a, New York, NY, 10033-1730 (1992)

SSDI - Patrick J Brennan - 18 November 1908 - 23 february 1989 - Last Residence 10033 New York, New York, New York.  SSN issued New Jersey (Before 1951)


Sandra
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: noland01 on Monday 15 April 19 23:43 BST (UK)
Just revisiting this again as got reply from a person on Ancestry with a tree that seems to match the details as stated in the OP and also seem to match mine.
They think "their" Patrick Brennan married in Ireland(Mount Temple, Westmeath)in 1906 although can find nothing non Irish Genealogy site even remotely likely.
Katherine Woods that died April 1927 in Manhattan according to above result from Family Search seems likely to be the Katherine Woods born to Patrick Woods and Ellen Keegan in Mount Temple here on 5th November 1873

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03171/2163011.pdf

Just wondering if anyone has any idea's re. finding a marriage between a Patrick Brennan and a Catherine/Katherine Woods in either Ireland or USA c.1906
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: oldohiohome on Tuesday 16 April 19 00:14 BST (UK)
I didn't find the marriage at familysearch.org or at https://italiangen.org/ for 1904-1910
and nothing for 1904-1908 at https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie.

no Katherine Woods marriage in the Westmeath Registration Districts, 1904 - 1908. I used the list of RDs per county found here
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Ireland-civil-registration.html

P.S. believe rootschat before you believe an ancestry tree :)
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: noland01 on Tuesday 16 April 19 00:28 BST (UK)
I didn't find the marriage at familysearch.org or at https://italiangen.org/ for 1904-1910
and nothing for 1904-1908 at https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie.

no Katherine Woods marriage in the Westmeath Registration Districts, 1904 - 1908. I used the list of RDs per county found here
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Ireland-civil-registration.html

P.S. believe rootschat before you believe an ancestry tree :)

Could not find anything either but sometimes its easy to miss the obivious
Online trees are something of a curates egg at times.
Perhaps they may have married in the Uk on the way to USA.Or perhaps may not have ever married.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: oldohiohome on Tuesday 16 April 19 00:45 BST (UK)
I haven't read the thread thoroughly, but 1) Westmeath looks to be a long walk from Co. Carlow, 2) Katherine's oldest child in 1920 is 11, pointing to a marriage about 1908 or so, and 3) the Irish civil marriages for the time period exist and are pretty much all online if I understand right, but the US records are hit and miss for that time. Or they could have married in New Jersey and not be online at all.
Plus Patrick is not with his family in 1901, presumably emigrated, so not about to marry in Ireland in 1906.

If you're still working on them, I'd try to find their passenger records. If they said they were married on the manifest, even if not traveling together, that would settle it. If not, then you at least would have a date after which they married somewhere in the US.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: shellyesq on Tuesday 16 April 19 02:56 BST (UK)
There are more NY City marriage records/indexes online now than when this question was first posed, and there are indexes for that time frame for New Jersey and New York state (other than NYC) now online.  Still not seeing any likely matches though.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: noland01 on Tuesday 16 April 19 10:42 BST (UK)
Would have thought it shouldn't be too difficult to find their marriage but it seems to be.perhaps they married elsewhere in US before moving to Manhattan.
Am still convinced that I have the correct person ie the Patrick Brennan died 22nd April 1914 in Manhattan and married to Katherine Woods,daughter of Patrick Woods and Ellen Keegan,is "my" Patrick.
Headstone,memory card,death record etc are all too close to be a coincidence plus the fact that the parents names match exactly with my Patrick.
As an aside why were/are the deceased's parents names on the record?Same for Katherine.Is that usual practice?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.Will perhaps wait and see if the other people with them in their tree's have some record of a marriage etc.
Title: Re: Patrick Brennan;died 23rd April 1914 in New York.
Post by: shellyesq on Tuesday 16 April 19 10:55 BST (UK)
Yes, those death records have spaces for parents' names.  I would say most states/localities in the US asked for parents' names on vital records from the late 1800's or early 1900's on.