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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Suzy100 on Friday 14 April 17 19:43 BST (UK)

Title: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Friday 14 April 17 19:43 BST (UK)
Hi I am trying to locate any information on Percy Clarence Wheeler, he was in Pentonville Prison for Housebreaking in 1928.  It does state he was born in 1900 in Caterham but I do not think this is right as my Percy Clarence Wheeler was born in 1902 in Fulham.  I am thinking it is the same person though as he had a child with his wife in 1927 a Christopher Wheeler and then disappears completely after this.  I cannot even find a death.  His wife Margery M Foward leaves him as she has a son by another man in 1929. 

What I am really interested in finding is the newspaper clipping relating to this court case or where I go to obtain more information on his stay in prison etc.  I have looked at National Archives but find them a little confusing to say the least.

Many Thanks
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: giggsycat on Friday 14 April 17 20:35 BST (UK)
Hi Suzy

Who was the Percy C Wheeler that married the year before your Percy married?

Marriages Sep 1923 

Powell    Ethel G    Wheeler    Edmonton    3a   1687    
Wheeler    Percy C    Powell    Edmonton    3a   1687

Giggsy
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: giggsycat on Friday 14 April 17 20:50 BST (UK)
Or was that a first wife (a lot older)? Or a complete red herring!

Deaths Jun 1924   
Wheeler    Ethel G    41    Edmonton    3a   494
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Friday 14 April 17 21:03 BST (UK)
Hi Giggsycat

That is Percy Cooper Wheeler.  I had looked at him.  I think there is another Percy C Wheeler as well but only one Percy Clarence as far as I can tell. :)
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: giggsycat on Friday 14 April 17 21:04 BST (UK)
I didn't think it would be that easy! ;D
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: avm228 on Friday 14 April 17 22:04 BST (UK)
Your Percy's parents, Alfred and Mildred, were in Caterham with Alfred's parents in 1901 - so perhaps the family link with that place explains the erroneous birthplace stated for Percy in his criminal record.

RG13/631/84/5.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Saturday 15 April 17 07:00 BST (UK)
Thanks avm228 that is great I did not link the two, even though I do have that census.  So it definitely is the same Percy which is what I thought, however I still want some more info on how to obtain more records from Pentonville and if there are more detailed records for inmates.  If anyone can direct me.

Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:25 BST (UK)
Percy Clarence Wheeler was born on 7th December 1901 I have traced his rather criminal life thanks in part to some of Roots Chat followers.  However I am now at a lose to his death.   I just cannot find anything on when he died at all.  I ordered a certificate of a Percy Wheeler who died in Bromley but it turned out to be the wrong one.  It is feasible that he used a completely different name as he was arrested at one stage and used Arthur Albert Anderson, but i have even searched for deaths for this name but nothing jumps out.  I have printed out all deaths right up until he might have made 100 and gone through the list but still cannot find one that could be him.  I am well and truly stumped.  He did marry a Margery May Foward but they seperated.  Although when she died in 1995 on her death certificate was wife of Percy Clarence Wheeler (Retired), she died in Wales. 
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:32 BST (UK)
wife of not widow of ?
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:36 BST (UK)
Have you contacted Pentonville to establish whether it's possible to view/obtain records for that period?

Is he on the 1939 register?
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:37 BST (UK)
Previous thread

Threads merged.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:40 BST (UK)
Widow of sorry
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:42 BST (UK)
Hi Carole I did post before about him and have found the information I required and no he is no where on the 1939 register not that that means anything as quite often I cannot find people on the 1939 register unfortunately.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:46 BST (UK)
Margery never re-married as she died as Wheeler which could suggest that she knew Percy was still alive - although not necessarily as late as 1995.

 
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:54 BST (UK)
Yes I agree, also it states he was retired which suggests he was alive at retirement age.  Or it could just be that the informant at time of death thought they had been together as this is what she told them.  It is a mystery.  I thought maybe he was in the 2nd WW but there is nothing to suggest this is so.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 13 September 17 23:35 BST (UK)
Any information on Margery's will?
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: mirl on Thursday 14 September 17 02:01 BST (UK)
UK outward bound passengers has a Percy Wheeler b1898 heading for Canada in 1929 that might be worth a chase even though the birth year might be out a bit.

No, not him, it's a Percy D Wheeler.

I suggest it because if he can't be found anywhere in England, then it makes sense to me that he might not actually be in England.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: mirl on Thursday 14 September 17 02:19 BST (UK)
Do you have his baptism?

8 June 1903 All Saints Notting Hill, abode 10 Clifton St, fathers occupation French polisher
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: mirl on Thursday 14 September 17 02:45 BST (UK)
I also checked births for a Wheeler/Forward combination and got two after their marriage in Jun 1924 Hammersmith.

Sep 1924 Hammersmith - Terence R
Jun 1925  Merthyr Tydfil - Sylvia
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Thursday 14 September 17 07:04 BST (UK)
Yes I have the baptism that is him. 
I have also considered he went abroad but cannot find any evidence to support this.

Margery left everything to her friends but also she never mentioned her sons either in her will.  One was put into Barnados so guess she would not.  One had died but there is another one and I have not idea what happened to him although found him in later life.

I have just found a PC Wheeler died 1945 WW2 in the Grenadiers guards 1st Battalion 2623866 so this is a possible one which I will follow up.  Although it is difficult to get info from WW2 isnt it!?
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: mirl on Thursday 14 September 17 07:34 BST (UK)
Not that difficult, just takes some time and a little bit of cash.

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records

Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Thursday 14 September 17 16:41 BST (UK)
Hi Mirl

Thank you that is very helpful - re other children

I did not want to waste money on tracing the WW2 Grenadier Guards PC Wheeler if it is not him though.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 14 September 17 17:16 BST (UK)
On a quick search earlier I couldn't see the death of the Grenadier Guard PC Wheeler on CWGC.  Have you found details of him there?

www.cwgc.org
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Thursday 14 September 17 18:27 BST (UK)
Hi avm228

I found a listing on Find my past web site 'British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945' but it just says PC Wheeler so have no idea at the moment if this is him or not. 
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 14 September 17 18:32 BST (UK)
Hi avm228

I found a listing on Find my past web site 'British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945' but it just says PC Wheeler so have no idea at the moment if this is him or not.

You will see from that record that he is in a "Wounded" list (date of casualty 5.3.45).  Since he doesn't appear on CWGC, it does not look as though he died from his wounds.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Thursday 14 September 17 18:50 BST (UK)
Hi avm228 yes you are right.  So maybe it is not him.  I still think maybe he changed his name when he came out of prison! 
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 14 September 17 20:35 BST (UK)
Madge (Margery M) Hanks (Wheeler) with the same dob as the death cert, 29 June 1903,  is in Newport CB on the 1939 register.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 14 September 17 20:46 BST (UK)
Just trying to clarify the situation with Margery, her surname at birth in Merthyr was Foward, as was the 1911 census and 1924 Hammersmith marriage and then back to Wales for the 1939 and death in 1995.
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 14 September 17 20:58 BST (UK)
Looks like "Madge May Hanks" is on the London Electoral Registers with John Hanks 1927, 1930 and 1937
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: Suzy100 on Thursday 14 September 17 21:09 BST (UK)
Hi Dawnsh yes that is correct.  She seems to have gone back to Wales by 1939 but I am not sure if she took two of her sons with her.  Christopher went to Barnados and never saw her again.  He has now died.  But Percy, after he came out of prison in 1932 disappears completely.  No electoral role nothing.   :'(
Title: Re: Death of Percy Clarence Wheeler
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 14 September 17 22:51 BST (UK)
Is this Marjorie May 'Wheeler' also on the Epsom Electoral reisters in the early 1960's?