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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Marytm on Friday 14 April 17 21:42 BST (UK)
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I am looking to find more information about Richard Guy Handley's (born 1818) family. I am related to the Handley's and am trying to find information about Arnold Samuel or Samuel Arnold Handley's parents.He is living with Agnes and Elizabeth in 1891. I can't find George and Mary Ann Collins once they are married.
If any one can help that would be great,
Marytm
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Hello
Where do George and Mary Ann Collins fit in? Are Agnes and Elizabeth called Handley?
If you could elaborate a little on the relationships and dates of the people you mention that would make it clearer and easier for us to look for you :)
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Welcome to Rootschat
You haven't told us when or where Arnold Handley was born or where he was living in 1891
I can't find George and Mary Ann Collins once they are married.
When and where did they marry?
When were they each born and where?
What was Mary Ann's maiden name?
He is living with Agnes and Elizabeth in 1891
Agnes & Elizabeth who?
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1891
Elizabeth Handley 38 head
Agnes L Handley 36 sister
Samuel A Handley 12 nephew
I think in 1881 down as Arnold 2 "adapted"
No mothers maiden name on birth so likely illegitimate. You could get the birth certificate to find out who his mother was but if he is nephew to those 2 ladies then another of their sisters was probably his mother.
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Hmm can't seem to find Agnes and co in 1851 to see if any other siblings but later census only show 3 siblings - Elizabeth - Agnes - Richard.
Oh unless Agnes was his mother and the relationship nephew refers to Elizabeth?
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Family tree has older siblings - Mary - Alice - George - Emma
Mary is married 1867 so not likely to be her.
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They are living in Birmingham and Agnes and Elizabeth are down as Aunts.On his Wedding Cert it says George is his Dad but I can't find any info about him having any children.
Marytm
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Thanks for your help.
Arnold was born in Birmingham.He is adopted at 2yrs old (I think if it is the right one) in 1881 by a Charles and Caroline Frederick who I can't find after this.
In 1891 he is living with maiden aunts? Agnes and Elizabeth (Whose parents have passed away at this time) so I wondered if one was Mum?
Marytm
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It looks as though he was illegitimate and made up a fathers name when he married. This was quite a common practice with illegitimate children in those days and was used to appear "respectable"
To be absolutely certain you need to buy a copy of his birth cert which will give his mothers name
December qtr 1878
Samuel Arnold Handley Aston 6d 322
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Sorry new to all this and late,
All Handley's living around aston Birmingham. George marrys Mary Ann Collins in Bordesley Holy Trinity,Warwickshire in 1866. (There are so many George Handley's it's difficult to know but I can't find them after this.)
Arnold was born 1878 died 1911.
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Using the new GRO search facility - there is no mothers maiden name showing against Samuel Arnold Handleys birth registration which suggests he was illegitimate
He is not with parents in 1881 or 1891 which may confirm that.
George Handley married 12yrs before Samuel was born but if Samuel is the illegitimate son of one of George's sisters - then that may be why Samuel used "George" as his fathers name when he married
There is only one way forward here - buy a copy of the 1878 birth cert to find his mothers name
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Will order birth cert I think. Thankyou.Would it have the Dad's name? Thanks for Everyone's help. This is the first time I have used this site it's great!
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Would it have the Dad's name?
Highly unlikely
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I have ordered a Marriage Cert from Ancestry web site before but I think the GOV website is cheaper.
What do people think of the paid for websites?My sister and I both use the same and I am thinking of changing as we may get different info?
Ma
Marytm
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Glad you like the site and please let us know what the birth certificate says, it's nice to know how these things turn out :)
I've always ordered certificates from the GRO. Current price is £9.25.
I think it's a really good idea for you and your sister to use different sites, as you say what you can't find on one you may well find on the other.
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Your reply #13 says you have ordered the marriage cert - think you mean birth cert
i have always ordered certs from the GRO website - cheaper than Ancestry
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Thanks Carole and Milliepede.
I have ordered Samuel Arnold's Marriage Certificate previously.Today I used the GOR (not GOV) sorry,
Website to order the Birth certificate.I thought the old ones only had the child's name on.Fingers crossed it will solve the mystery.
The weird thing is Martha Watts who is Arnold\Samuel Handley's wife had a son in 1914 (my Grand Dad ). I have found out Arnold dies in 1911, so prob same thing here too! My family's full of scandal!
I love doing my Family Tree because of all the stories...
Marytm
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His birth cert will have his mothers name and address at the time of registering the birth and possibly an occupation for her. It will also tell you when Samuel was born and possibly the address at which he was born.
Don't forget to post details when you get the cert and we can see if we are able to get more info for you
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I did go to the Ancestry, Who do You think you are NEC show last week.A lady there told me to look
at neighbours with similar names.I have found an Emanuel Heilbroii next door on the 1881 Census.
This would be when Samuel was 3 yrs old (so I am not sure if he lived next door 3years earlier).
Not sure how likely he is for "Dad".He is married with children. There was also a distant relative called Samuel in the family so it may be he was named after him.I guess it is impossible to know. Would be good if he was on Birth Cert.
Marytm
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The weird thing is Martha Watts who is Arnold\Samuel Handley's wife had a son in 1914 (my Grand Dad ). I have found out Arnold dies in 1911, so prob same thing here too!
Was he called Arthur?
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No Eric
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There's a family tree with a photo of Arnold and Martha - hope you have seen that.
Eric right I see. Who is the father on his birth certificate if any? Would be a bit daring to suggest it was her husband if he had died 3 years previous!
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Emanuel Heilbroii
Surname is Heilbron and he married Esther Cohen in 1876. Their first child was born 1877 and the second in 1878. Doubt he is your man but family were clearly of Jewish origin so who knows - perhaps DNA is the answer??
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Again on a wedding cert Eric puts Arnold as his Dad,Apparently he was very quiet about his family.
Thanks for the info on Emanual H, it is all a bit of a long shot really.Willpost details when birth certs arrive.I have ordered one for Eric too. He was a lovely man.
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I can't work out how to open a new Question on the Beginners Board?
Any way I will put it here and see if this works.
I am trying to read the 1901 Census for Harry Dunnett in Ladywood Birmingham.
It says he is a dentist then something about home? Does this say he is working form home?
Is it a coincidence that next door is an Optitions Clerk and a ? Nurse I can't read the start of it looks like Sheep \shoe \?
Marytm ;)
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I can't work out how to open a new Question on the Beginners Board?
For future reference just access the board you need and select "New Topic"
Where possible - you should post on the board appropriate to the county to which your query relates
The 1901 entry just says Dentist then in the next column it says "own account" and in the next column " at home" In other words he was self employed working from his own home.
Look at the headings of the 2 columns after Occupation
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Thanks again.
Although neat I really have trouble reading some of the census entries.
Marytm
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This is the family 1851 Oldbury & 61 in B'ham:
Richard Handley 37
Mary Handley 35
Emma Handley 13 (m. 1861)
George Handley 11
Alice Handley 9
Mary Handley 6 (m. 1845)
Elizabeth Handley 1
Richard Handley 1 Mo
Richard G Hansley 48
Mary Hansley 44
George Hansley 21
Alice Hansley 19
Elizabeth Hansley 11
Richard G Hansley 10
Agnes L Hansley 8
Richard Guy Handley Ch. 1813 Pembridge. Parents Peter & Mary.
Possible marriage:
1804 Lyonshall to a Mary Griffiths. Lyonshall is about 5 mls. from Pembridge.
Children:
1805 Francis
1806 George
1807 John
1810 Thomas
1813 Rebecca
All Lyonshall
1813 Richard Guy
1817 Mary
Both Pembridge
Richard Guy married Mary Jesson 19/2/1839 Bushbury Staffs.
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To all those who helped me before :
The Birth Certificate says Agnes Handley is Mum of Samuel Arnold.No notes about Dad and she registered the child herself!
Marytm
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Does anyone have any photos of the Handley Gravestones from the Witton Cemetary?
Marytm