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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Fleetz on Sunday 16 April 17 16:03 BST (UK)
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Looking to find a reasonably detailed map of Liverpool c.1800-1850.
Ideally with street names, church locations etc. I have been able to get all the churches of bap. and bur. in Liverpool going back to c.1650. Also a lot of street names where relatives lived and some worked, so a detailed map would be great to add to the history write up I am doing at the moment.
Happy to have A3 or even A2 sized prints. Anyone know of a detailed map that I can purchase and or download?
Cheers,
Ian
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The 1836 one is zoomable and seems to have a reasonable amount of detail. (I haven't checked the others):
https://liverpool1207blog.wordpress.com/old-liverpool-maps/
The NLS maps will cover Liverpool but probably will be later than 1850s.http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=6&lat=53.3995&lon=-3.0305&layers=39&b=1&point=0,0
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/ - subscription required in order to zoom in for more detail but you may be able to get close enough to find what you are looking for.
I used to have some other maps but sadly the links no longer work.
Added: There are a few of Liverpool amongst the rest of Lancashire here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_Pages/ENG_pages/lan.htm (the 1801 George Cole map looks promising though I haven't examined it closely) - I think many are zoomable if you click on them.
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Surveyed: 1845 to 1849 http://maps.nls.uk/view/102344096
Stan
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Thanks for the links.
Lots of nice maps unfortunately the ones of interest were not downloadable so I can print them out. Looking for map from the docks back maybe 20 streets or so which is where the majority of my ancestors lived until 1850 when our Aussie forefathers emigrated.
I ordered a map that looked great from OldUkMaps however their previews don't reflect the map that you order? They were very good and refunded the purchase.
The search continues....thanks again.
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The Alan Godfrey copies of old OS maps are pretty good for what you want, although you may have to get more than one to cover the areas you are interested in.
http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/liverpool5.htm
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How much detail do you want and what part of Liverpool are you interested in? Maps for the first half of the 19th century don't tend to feature the courts. If you are interested in court level coverage there are some maps available post 1850. You'll probably struggle to find exactly what you want if what's online is not enough.
Blue
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You could always take a Print Screen image of any maps that come near to what you want. A lot of online maps don't have a download facility.
Blue
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Cheers Anthony and Blue,
Appears I seek the quest of the holy grail.
A single map from the docks back maybe 20 odd streets back from St Nicholas and St Peter churches. It is where most of our clan lived in the 17, 18 and 19th century. The older part and more established parts of Liverpool.
In an ideal world c.1850 or slightly earlier being representative of up to when in particular our branch that finished up as colonist left to come to Australia.
Ideally if I can find a map that can provide that part of Liverpool I have described that fits on to A3 that would be great so it can be folded and included in a A4 booklet I am currently writing. If it is a larger digital format ie A2 I can get it converted to A3 and there are no copyright issues then that would be fine.
Equally if the drawing exists in a larger format in hard copy form and can be reduced by a copy shop to A3 again without copyright issues that is OK too. Living in Australia the cost of shipping is quite high which is why I prefer a detailed digital image which can be scaled by a good copy shop.
Having a map that has the majority of the streets and or churches mentioned in their bap., m. or bur. just would add so much to the journey.
Antony the Alan Godfrey maps are quite a bit later c.1900, they might do the job unfortunately they do have a preview albeit in lower resolution to see what they are offering. They also mention multiple sheets which I prefer not to have to cut and paste together.
A larger digitised map with a good amount of detail that lends itself to be scaled back electronically would be ideal. Not sure what the copyright laws are with regard to maps that are circa 150 years old? But that is important as I would like to print off 20 or so as it looks like I have about that many living relatives here that will be interested in a copy. Copies I would be providing free of charge. Happy to pay a fair copyright fee per copy if that is what is required.
If the eventual copy of the map can be scanned down or electronically scaled down to A3 then that can be folded to fit nicely within an A4 publication.
Cheers,
Ian
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I don't print out large maps of Liverpool as you can't see enough of the detail on an A4 or A3 piece of paper. I only ever use images showing particular areas or particular streets and print them on A4 to fit my Lever Arch file.
Blue
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I don't print out large maps of Liverpool as you can't see enough of the detail on an A4 or A3 piece of paper. I only ever use images showing particular areas or particular streets and print them on A4 to fit my Lever Arch file.
Blue
Cheers Blue....may well be what I have to do. As I said earlier I am seeking the holy grail of Liverpool maps. There is an ideal world and then the real world.
Ian
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ian, the Cole 1801 Liverpool street plan in Genmaps, which I provided a link to might fit the bill as it shows quite a lot of detail. It may be able to be "stitched together" to make your A3 sheet. I have my doubts that using the image from the online map would be do-able or high enough quality, but some googling might lead you to a supplier which has, or can reproduce it.
I think rather than a map it seems that you are looking for a town plan? Changing your search terms may locate something.
Have you tried contacting a Liverpool history group, library or archives who may know of a source of old street plans?
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ian, the Cole 1801 Liverpool street plan in Genmaps, which I provided a link to might fit the bill as it shows quite a lot of detail. It may be able to be "stitched together" to make your A3 sheet. I have my doubts that using the image from the online map would be do-able or high enough quality, but some googling might lead you to a supplier which has, or can reproduce it.
I think rather than a map it seems that you are looking for a town plan? Changing your search terms may locate something.
Have you tried contacting a Liverpool history group, library or archives who may know of a source of old street plans?
Hi Ruskin,
Thanks for your patience with me. Yes I looked at all the Liverpool maps in the links you provided and the 1801 did hit what I was after but it was only a viewable map in 4 quadrants.
Your right my language of map verses a town plan is absolutely spot on. A map gets you to Liverpool a town plan lets you navigate the streets. It's the later I am after so I will modify my search criteria.
Your Liverpool history group is a wonderful idea! In my ancestor searching over here in Australia local historical societies and museum have been wonderfully helpful in looking you family history. Why I never thought of that must be put down to a brain fade. ???
I am happy to source a map and (the Coles 1801 looks good) at whatever size with the required detail and have an appropriate print shop over here deal with scanning and converting to a size that works.
Thanks you have opened up some avenues that looked to be closing.
Glad I have found this forum....great members!
Regards,
Ian
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can you give us the dock area - ie Canada Dock - Alexander Dock - Wapping - Brunswick Dock ??
if you know it ...I would have thought the dock and streets would not have changed between 1800 and 1900 ..
I live in Garston - Stalbridge Dock - this is the very last dock going South in Liverpool ...if you have addresses /names etc I will see lads who were dockers in our pub The Mariners . a wealth of info about dock areas as you can imagine :)
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can you give us the dock area - ie Canada Dock - Alexander Dock - Wapping - Brunswick Dock ??
if you know it ...I would have thought the dock and streets would not have changed between 1800 and 1900 ..
I live in Garston - Stalbridge Dock - this is the very last dock going South in Liverpool ...if you have addresses /names etc I will see lads who were dockers in our pub The Mariners . a wealth of info about dock areas as you can imagine :)
Cheers....I will get a list of streets and the main churches together. Good idea it better ranges the town plan that is actually of interest which hopefully will scope out more focused map options.
Happy to look out to 1900 or more if the streets didn't change too much.
Of course it gives you a legitimate reason to have a few jars with the lads! 😀
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www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk
A to Z
street maps
1901 taken - but as I say I would have thought some of the dock areas never changed over 100 yrs 1800 - 1900Canada Dock and Alexander Dock BOTH had railway lines that went down across the Dock Road and the trucks went right next to the ships - these 2 dock areas never changed and Stevedores (dockers ) and Railway workers lived in houses owned by the Railway and Mersey Dock and Harbour Board ...so you may be lucky ....I hope so ;)
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www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk
A to Z
street maps
1901 taken - but as I say I would have thought some of the dock areas never changed over 100 yrs 1800 - 1900Canada Dock and Alexander Dock BOTH had railway lines that went down across the Dock Road and the trucks went right next to the ships - these 2 dock areas never changed and Stevedores (dockers ) and Railway workers lived in houses owned by the Railway and Mersey Dock and Harbour Board ...so you may be lucky ....I hope so ;)
I probably mentioned the docks more because it was close to St Nicholas where a lot of my relatives were baptised, married and buried. Thought it most likely maps working back from the docks more likely to be common than starting at St Nicholas.
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can you give us the dock area - ie Canada Dock - Alexander Dock - Wapping - Brunswick Dock ??
if you know it ...I would have thought the dock and streets would not have changed between 1800 and 1900 ..
I live in Garston - Stalbridge Dock - this is the very last dock going South in Liverpool ...if you have addresses /names etc I will see lads who were dockers in our pub The Mariners . a wealth of info about dock areas as you can imagine :)
Cheers....I will get a list of streets and the main churches together. Good idea it better ranges the town plan that is actually of interest which hopefully will scope out more focused map options.
Happy to look out to 1900 or more if the streets didn't change too much.
Of course it gives you a legitimate reason to have a few jars with the lads! 😀
Caught up with the lads yet! 😀
The churches of interest are St Nicholas and St Peter over 95% of events with our ancestors were conducted there. Christs Church, Hunter St and St George Churches had a few events but are not significant in the scheme of things.
The streets that played significant roles from parish registers and or bishops transcripts are as follows.
Hacking Hey
Pressons Row
Castle St
Queen St
Old Hall St
King St
Dale St
Moorfields
Moor St
Dale St
Harrington St
Vernon St
Mathew St
Old Scotland Road
Given the history that these came from was c1650 to C.1800 where the population was not huge it appear the streets seem relatively close by to the churches, in particular St Nicholas and St Peter.
So a town plan map showing the above would be like finding the holy grail of maps. Either in a detailed printed format or a high resolution digital format.
Any assistance in zeroing in what might encompass the above mentioned would be great.
Regards,
Ian
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Can't you somehow adapt one of the maps we've provided links for using Print Screen? I would use this one:-
http://liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/liverpool_1824/
Blue
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I tend to agree Blue. A quick look at that 1824 map, (even without knowing the exact locations of many of the streets) and I've spotted a few from Ian's list.
Ian, presumably you have located all of your addresses on old maps?
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Thanks folks for the input and suggestions.
I suspect if a map like this was a high res digital image that could be cropped out a high res print that could be scanned and then cropped it could do the business.
Just scaling it on my iPad at the moment it appears not to be a linear scaled map rather a series of maps scaled which allows you to go from one size to the next which is fine for viewing on electronic devices and PC's
I realise there is a fair amount of detail required even to display the relatively small area these streets occupy which is why I was going to an A3 size and folding it down to A4 which is what I will be printing the remainder of the family history in.
If I could get the 1824 in a high res format it would be prefect. I could crop the image to accomodate the A3 format, maintain the resolution to clearly see the streets and in photoshop add some names of streets which appear not to be displayed like Matthew St for example. Also add the names of the churches which all don't appear on that particular map, the locations are shown however.
It would appear that the family having most likely started occupying and possibly owning some of that property which some of which got handed down to the next generation our tribe doesn't appear to have had to spread to far away from St Nicholas and St Peter in their times there. So that does focus the area which makes it easier.
I will play around with the print screen idea tomorrow on the PC, print screen is however not likely to scale to well as it will pixelate when scaling as it is not a vector based scalable format, as would be the case in a high res JPEG format for example.
Cheers,
Ian
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Good luck with it Ian.
You could try using a later map (like the NLS maps) which will probably have all the streets named, but I do understand that there would be a lot more development in the city and it is nice to be able to see the street layouts more or less as your ancestors knew them.
If the relatives you intend to show this to are not familiar with Liverpool it might not mean as much to them anyway, so some additional development in the city might not be important.
Although it is later the map Stan linked to early in the thread is also good and names the churches. You might be able to do something with that one. :)
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Good luck with it Ian.
You could try using a later map (like the NLS maps) which will probably have all the streets named, but I do understand that there would be a lot more development in the city and it is nice to be able to see the street layouts more or less as your ancestors knew them.
If the relatives you intend to show this to are not familiar with Liverpool it might not mean as much to them anyway, so some additional development in the city might not be important.
Although it is later the map Stan linked to early in the thread is also good and names the churches. You might be able to do something with that one. :)
Thanks again.
I think this map would be fine if I can buy a reasonable resolution hard copy or get a digital scanned image.
I agree with you about the detail, would rather have an older map with less detail but more relavent of the times than one that has more that wasn't relavent for the times.
The date 1824 is excellent and relavent for the hundred or so years before and the 25 odd that come after up until the relivatives emigrated.
So locating the 1824 is now the quest.....ideally in good resolution digital but if I have to cop a postage charge on a print then so be it.
Will see if I can locate where to buy.....any ideas greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Ian