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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Merionethshire => Topic started by: teach3r on Wednesday 19 April 17 10:31 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find and order the birth certificate of my gg-grandfather Joseph Davies born between 1845 and 1848.
From the evidence below, I am pretty sure that I should be able to find an entry for Joseph between 1845 and 1848 to order his certificate but I am unable to find it. Any help would be much appreciated.
The Parish baptisms register of 1845 has a Joseph Davies born to Griffith & Mary on July 20th living at Pen Uchaf y Lan (I was hoping this would be Winllan!)
In the 1851 census he is recorded as age 6 (could be 4) living at Winllan (indicating birth 1845 (or 1847) in Bettws
In the 1861 census he is recorded as 16 living at Winllan with his mother as Head (indicating birth 1845 in Bettws)
In the 1871 census (April) I have Joseph working at Caenog, Gwyddelwern as a Farm labourer aged 24 (indicating birth 1847 in Bettws)
From his marriage certificate to Harriet Davies in 1871 at The Parish Church, Gwyddelwern his father is shown as Griffith Davies (Farmer). Joseph is living at Winllan and is shown as “full age”.
In the 1881 census he is recorded as age 34 (indicating birth 1847 in Bettws GG).
In the 1891 census he is recorded as age 44 (indicating birth 1847 in Bettws GG)
In the 1901 census he is recorded as age 53 (indicating birth 1848 in Bettws GG)
In the 1911 census he is recorded as age 66 (indicating birth 1845 in Bettws)
From after his marriage until his death in 1918 he is living at Tynllechwedd, Gwyddelwern (where my Mother, Nan, and g-grandfather were all born)
I have previously ordered the certificate for a Joseph Davies born in 1844 but this did not have the correct parents.
Thank you again for any help that can be given.
Nic
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Have you got his mothers maiden name as births can be narrowed down if you have that :)
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Hi Millipede,
All I have with regards to Mum is what is on the census returns which is the married name Davies.
On the marriage cert it is just Dad's name
On the parish register it again just shows the married name.
Thank you for taking a look - much appreciated. This one has stumped me for some time!
Regards,
Nic
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In the early years of registration not all births were registered.
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Tell you what we could do - did they have other children? If so we can look up their births to find Mary's maiden name and use that to find a marriage to Griffith.
Am guessing you have looked under different spellings like Davis for Joseph.
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A Griffith Davies married Mary Hughes in Corwen district in 1839
I don't know if this is the right marriage but, from the GRO index, children with the same first name on the 1851 census were registered to a mother named Hughes in Corwen at the right times, except for Joseph. Some Josephs with the same mother's maiden name were registered at the right time but not in Corwen.
David's baptism also shows the address as Pen Uchaf y Llan, and The family are listed there in 1841.
David
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I think Joseph's baptism is listed as Feb 26,1845 (not July 20th)?
I had thought he might be the Joab Davies mmn Hughes born Dec Qtr 1845 but that's a really late registration!
Maureen
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His birth might not be registered. In the early years of statutory registration,births was not made compulsory until 1875 (Births and Deaths Act, 1874) , when parents coud be fined for not registering the births of their children.
My 2 x great grandparents didn't register their children but all were baptised.
Gadget
Added - just seen that nanny jan has also suggested this:
In the early years of registration not all births were registered.
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It's annoying when you can't find just one isn't it.
I have one sister in a family of 8 and her birth was never registered when all the others were. This was 1864. Makes you wonder but she was baptised along with the rest.
Actually I haven't checked the GRO index for her....better had just in case!
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Thank you everyone for your help. I have gone back into the Parish registers and the GRO and came up with the following:
April 5th 1840 (bapt.) Son Griffith born to Mary & Griffith Davies Bettws Farmer
[Possible GRO: Corwen (Q2 1840 – 27, 147)] <br>
1842 John - couldn't find baptism or GRO <br>
November 20th 1843 (bapt.) Son David born to Mary & Griffith Davies Pen Uchaf y Llan Farmer
[Possible GRO: Corwen (Q2 1843 – 27, 152); Corwen (Q4 1843 – 27, 152); Corwen (Q4 1843 – 27, 157)] <br>
February 20th 1845 (bapt.) Son Joseph born to Mary & Griffith Davies Pen Uchaf y Llan Farmer
[Can't find GRO] <br>
1848 Margaret - couldn't find baptism or GRO <br>
July 21st 1854 (bapt.) Son Robert born to Mary & Griffith Davies Winllan Farmer
[Possible GRO: Corwen (Q2 1854 - 11B, 408)] <br>
I will order Robert's and Griffith's birth certs to get their mother's maiden name.
Regards,
Nic
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I do have a marriage certificate for Griffith and Mary Huges but I was dubious as to whether it was the right one:
<br>
02 November 1839 Llanfihangel GM both of full age.
Griffith is down as a "Hosier" rather than a farmer.
The address for both is Tynewydd, Corwen Parish, Llechweddygaer.
Parents are recorded as Griffith Davies and John Hughes, both farmers
<br>
Does this help shed any light on obtaining Joseph's birth cert (assuming he has one!)?
Thank you,
Nic
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April 5th 1840 (bapt.) Son Griffith born to Mary & Griffith Davies Bettws Farmer
[Possible GRO: Corwen (Q2 1840 – 27, 147)] <br>
I will order Robert's and Griffith's birth certs to get their mother's maiden name.
As mentioned GRO indexes give mother's maiden name
Griffith DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1840 Jun Quarter in CORWEN Volume 27 Page 147
November 20th 1843 (bapt.) Son David born to Mary & Griffith Davies Pen Uchaf y Llan Farmer
[Possible GRO: Corwen (Q2 1843 – 27, 152); Corwen (Q4 1843 – 27, 152); Corwen (Q4 1843 – 27, 157)] <br>
David DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1843 Dec Quarter in CORWEN Volume 27 Page 157
July 21st 1854 (bapt.) Son Robert born to Mary & Griffith Davies Winllan Farmer
[Possible GRO: Corwen (Q2 1854 - 11B, 408)] <br>
Robert DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1854 Sep Quarter in CORWEN Volume 11B Page 369
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1848 Margaret - couldn't find baptism or GRO <br>
I wonder if one of these might be Margaret's
Margaret DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1846 Mar Quarter in CORWEN Volume 27 Page 164
Margaret DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1847 Jun Quarter in CORWEN Volume 27 Page 148
ADDED might one of these be John's ?
1842 John - couldn't find baptism or GRO <br>
John DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1841 Dec Quarter in CORWEN Volume 27 Page 147
John DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1842 Dec Quarter in CORWEN UNION Volume 27 Page 142
John DAVIES mmn HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1844 Sep Quarter in CORWEN Volume 27 Page 147
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Sorry I can't see an obvious Corwen birth registration for a Joseph Davies Mar quarter 1845 ???
This is all I could find
Joseph DAVIES mmn EDWARDS
GRO Reference: 1844 Mar Quarter in CORWEN UNION Volume 27 Page 161
There is this one but wrong year and surname is Hughes indicates illegitimate as no mother's maiden name
Joseph HUGHES - mother's maiden left blank
GRO Reference: 1843 Mar Quarter in CORWEN UNION Volume 27 Page 151
from the GRO index, children with the same first name on the 1851 census were registered to a mother named Hughes in Corwen at the right times, except for Joseph.
Some Josephs with the same mother's maiden name were registered at the right time but not in Corwen.
Perhaps it might be worth checking the ones that were not registered in Corwen
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Thank you Ladyhawk for all your effort - it has certainly helped narrow things down!
Shame that Joseph is being elusive, especially as he is my direct descendent, but I certainly have enough to move on with.
Your help is much appreciated!
Nic
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You probably already know this,but the 1841 census has Griffith and Mary Davies with son Griffith at Penychar Llan(sic) ref HO 107/1428/1/8/10,consistent with your other data,and Joseph's 1845 birth.
Regards,
Roger
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I didn't notice it before,but Winllan is listed adjacent to Penychar Llan in the 1841 census.
Regards
Roger
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Looking locally on North Wales BMD,there is a Birth in 1944 of a Joseph Davies in the Corwen sub-district.there is none in 1845.
http://www.ukbmdcertificateordering.co.uk/certapp.php?type=births&data=DAVIES%7CJoseph%7CCorwen%7CWrexham+County+Borough+%28Wrexham%29%7C1844%7C1844%7C%7CAA%3ACRWN%2F02%2F90%7CD%7C16769%7Cnorthwales%7CAA%7C&lang=
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Looking locally on North Wales BMD,there is a Birth in 1944 of a Joseph Davies in the Corwen sub-district.there is none in 1845.
http://www.ukbmdcertificateordering.co.uk/certapp.php?type=births&data=DAVIES%7CJoseph%7CCorwen%7CWrexham+County+Borough+%28Wrexham%29%7C1844%7C1844%7C%7CAA%3ACRWN%2F02%2F90%7CD%7C16769%7Cnorthwales%7CAA%7C&lang=
Regards
William Russell Jones.
I must apologise for not re-reading the OP's original message!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi William - thank you for looking :) - much appreciated!
Nic