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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: starsista on Friday 21 April 17 04:45 BST (UK)

Title: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Friday 21 April 17 04:45 BST (UK)

I am looking for information on the family of Barbara Steel IRVINE/IRVIN/IRVING.  Her father was John Hennel IRVINE and mother Jane HILL.  This information comes from familysearch indices.  At this stage, I do not know where John was born, only that Barbara was born in North Shields in 1816.  She was baptised 28 July 1816 in Christ Church, Tynemouth.  Barbara had a brother, Thomas, baptised 24 June 1821 also in Christ Church, Tynemouth.

According to North Shields from Old Photographs, found on google books, Richard IRVIN & Sons were a fishing dynasty from North Shields, his father was John H IRVIN, and his mother was Sarah DRUMMOND.  Richard was born 1853, so whether he is of the same family, I have yet to ascertain.

Barbara is my ggg-grandmother.  She married Ralph Brady SIMPSON and, along with most of her children, emigrated to New Zealand in 1858.

Information I had been given said that the IRVINE family owned a fishing fleet and lived in Aberdeen, opposite a golf course.  This might be true of John Hennell IRVIN, son of the above Richard IRVIN, however, whether Barbara's father owned a fishing fleet, I don't know.  I do know that Richard built up a fishing fleet, so maybe there is confusion here with similar names.

I would be extremely interested to connect with someone also researching this family, and to know more about them.

Jeni Simpson
New Zealand

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 22 April 17 17:04 BST (UK)

Have you a copy of his marriage,when and where did he marry
I can quite clearly see his daughters baptism at Christ Church,giving fathers occupation as mariner
I did come across a seamans records for  a John Irvin born Orkney,apprenticed in 1811. living in Shields in 1850 according to his masters and mates certificate, but he does not have the Hennell/Hannell inserted as a middle name

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 22 April 17 17:19 BST (UK)

Interesting on free bmd there is a death recorded for a John Hannel Irvin aged 85 in Tynemouth
March 1893

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Saturday 22 April 17 22:17 BST (UK)

Hi Radcliff

Thank you.  I only have details from the familysearch index stating the marriage of John Hannll IRVIN took place on 21 November 1801, at St Hilda, South Shields, Durham.  Bride was Jane HILL.  The freebmd item is interesting, may be a brother or cousin. 

That John Hannel IRVIN would have been born 1808 and Barbara was born 1816.  I have his birth recorded as 1780 and Jane HILL as 1785.

The 1911 Census of England and Wales has a John Hannell IRVIN born North Shields and living in Tynemouth at the age of 73, he would have been born 1838.  Looking at the IGI, this might possibly be the son of Richard Webester IRVIN found in another familysearch index as marrying Esther Thoburn on 4 October 1868.

Three branches of the SIMPSON family use different spelling for this name, IRVIN, IRVING and IRVINE, and it is used as middle names for children down the generations.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Sunday 23 April 17 19:27 BST (UK)

so were there no children born between 1801 and 1816
that seems an awful long time before their first child

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Sunday 23 April 17 23:07 BST (UK)

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, I agree.  The only other child I have found to be born to this couple is Thomas, born 1821.  The only place I have found this family is familysearch.

Of course there is the possibility this is not Thomas and Barbara's parents, their mother was Jane on their birth information.  Searching for a marriage for John Hannell IRVIN and Jane, I was guided to this marriage to Jane HILL, on rootsweb.  I thought there may have been more children, and haven't found any yet. 

I could well be barking up the wrong tree with this couple as the parents.  More information is forthcoming on the net with each passing year.  It is only now I have found anything on the fishing fleet of Richard IRVIN and found the name John Hannell IRVIN floating around that family in the generations.  Plus, for years this was the only John Hannell IRVIN information I was able to find.

I don't have access to the paid sites, and live rurally, so no easy library access for ancestry.

Jeni Simpson

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Sunday 23 April 17 23:58 BST (UK)

The Irvin industry is well documented
and the building still stands on the quay
I will try and look again for children prior to 1816 tomorrow

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Monday 24 April 17 00:20 BST (UK)

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I have been reading quite a lot about the IRVIN family and their fishing fleet, Barbara's family would be before that of Richard IRVIN, who was born in 1853.  I cannot say this is the same family, I can only guess at that.

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 25 April 17 12:29 BST (UK)

According to an Ancestry tree,

the owner states that Richard Webster Irvin
was the son of John Hallen Irvin  and Jane

siblings
John Hallan Irvin 1807,North Shields
Richard Webster Irvin 1811,North Shields
Barbara Steel Irvin 1816,North Shields

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 25 April 17 14:32 BST (UK)

Interesting there is no mention of Thomas b 1821. 

The different spelling of the middle name is also of interest.  I have seen it spelled as Hannall, Hennell and Hannll, never Hallan before this, yet it appears to be the same family.  Do you have any idea where source documents might be found for births of the children

Thank you for your help with this, it is much appreciated.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 25 April 17 22:58 BST (UK)

I started looking through the bishops transcripts for Tynemouth before I left for work,
but because you have to search page by page I never got very far
they are available through Family search org

The tree also stated Barbara was a half sister, but of course you need to find the death and remarriage of her father

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Wednesday 26 April 17 00:48 BST (UK)

Thank you so much for taking this time to help me.  I have been searching on familysearch to little avail, only the information already mentioned.

I will certainly keep searching for this family and will look at the Bishops Transcripts as you suggest.

Thank you.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Thursday 04 May 17 10:57 BST (UK)

Hi

I have been searching the Bishops Transcripts for Tynemouth and have found both Barbara and Thomas' baptisms there.  The information tallies with the indices of family search, although Barbara's isn't easy to read.

I am getting dates from another family member for the tree on ancestry he believes is a correct tree, so I can search those dates.  Searching the transcripts is taking time, and with some idea of dates, this will be easier, I think.  Unfortunately the Durham images for South Shields are not available for 1801 so I won't be able to find the image for the marriage of John and Jane just yet.

Again, thanks for setting me on this path.  My SIMPSON family are also in this area.  I will search for them, too.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 05 May 17 06:02 BST (UK)

thes are invaluable documents and well worth sitting and reading page by page,often you will find a relative on them that didnt show up in a search as hey can be miss transcribed keeping plodding on,

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Friday 05 May 17 06:55 BST (UK)

Thank you.  I have been informed the Richard IRVIN who began the business Richard Irvin & Sons is a nephew of Barbara, from other research.  I now have dates of baptisms, marriages etc of Barbara's siblings, although not finding them in Tynemouth, so searching in the various Newcastle upon Tyne registers as well.  I have family born in Rothbury, so found some of them.

John Hannel IRVIN is the father of my ggg-grandmother, Barbara Steel IRVIN.  Barbara married my SIMPSON ancestor from North Shields, Ralph Brady SIMPSON. 

I am like a kid in a candy store searching these wonderful old registers.

Thank you
Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Radcliff on Sunday 14 May 17 00:32 BST (UK)

fabulous news

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Tim Irvin on Thursday 17 August 17 21:08 BST (UK)

I was looking at this earlier, and the search you have come up with is my family. I have a family tree somewhere in the loft and will dig it out at the weekend. I don't recall a Barbara on the family tree, but I may be wrong. I guess you could be looking at the wrong thread, but John Hannel Irvine and Jane Hill are definitely on the tree somewhere at the top. The e got dropped around that time and it is now Irvin.

Tim Irvin

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Thursday 17 August 17 21:12 BST (UK)

Tim

Thank you, looking forward to seeing what you have.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Tim Irvin on Sunday 27 August 17 21:05 BST (UK)

Hi Jeni,

I checked my family tree, and I could not find any mention of a Barbara Steel Irvin anywhere in there. I have my father staying with me presently, and he has no recollection of this name either. Sorry to disappoint, but it maybe you have the wrong family. However, it maybe missing from the tree I guess. Do you have any other leads?

Tim Irvin

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Sunday 27 August 17 21:26 BST (UK)

Tim

Thank you for looking.  Barbara Steel IRVINE was baptised 28 July 1816 in Tynemouth, to John Hannel IRVIN and Jane.  I have the baptism image from the Durham Bishops Transcripts.  Familysearch have transcribed this as John Hannll and I can see quite clearly that first l is an e.  Some people on ancestry have said Jane's surname was POSS and I was informed from a Northumberland mailing list many years ago that her surname was HILL.  She had a brother Thomas baptised 24 June 1821 also in Tynemouth.  John is in both images as a mariner.  If you pm me your email, I can send you both images.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Tim Irvin on Monday 28 August 17 10:26 BST (UK)

Moderator comment: personal e-mail address removed in accordance with RootsChat general practice, to avoid others abusing or spamming it.

Looking at my family tree, John Hannell Irvine and Jane Hill had 3 children: John (Hannell Irvine), Jane and Anne. I know one of my relatives Julian put together the family tree so it is entirely possible this was missed off I guess.

I'll see if l can take a screen shot of the tree later when you send me your email.

Tim

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Monday 28 August 17 10:55 BST (UK)

Tim

Thank you.  Barbara's father was John Hannel IRVIN and her mother was Jane, whether she was Jane HILL or not, I can't say.  I was given Jane HILL and the marriage in 1801 in St Hilda's, South Shields from members of a Northumberland mailing list.  This information about this particular couple as parents may be incorrect.

I have also found Thomas IRVIN born to John Hannel and Jane IRVIN in 1821.  Looking at the dates, there would have been more children born in that time span.  I may have to go back to the drawing board with the parents.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Millmoor on Monday 28 August 17 12:34 BST (UK)

Have you looked at Genuki? There is a list in the section on South Shields St Hilda of all the marriages conducted there (from the George Bell  collection). Unfortunately I cannot see the one you are interested in - wonder why it appears on FS and seemingly nowhere else?

William

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Tim Irvin on Monday 28 August 17 22:06 BST (UK)

Hi Jeni,

Just a thought, but I have John H Irvine and Jane Hill having children Anne born 1804, John born 1807 and Jane born 1807. It is possible Barbara and Thomas came later, I think from your info 1816 & 1821 respectively, and they have just been missed of the tree by my relative who put it together?

Tim

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Monday 28 August 17 22:11 BST (UK)

William

Thank you.  When the birth of Barbara was transcribed, in various transcriptions, it was done with her father as John Hannll IRVIN and looking at the image in the Durham Bishops Transcripts I can clearly see his name is spelled Hannel.  As you say George Bell's list does not show any marriage in St Hilda's for a John Hannel IRVIN/E, I checked from 1800 right through to 1824 in his indexes, and couldn't find it.  I checked familysearch again and they are still showing the 1801 marriage, and this appears to be Tim's family and may not be mine.  Why the discrepancy I cannot say, except maybe human error at some stage, after all George Bell digitised already transcribed records, I believe.

I think I may have to check through Northumberland and Durham records to find the parents of Barbara.  Steel, as a middle name, might be a family name from down the line somewhere, I will have to keep searching for this couple.

I see, also, a John Honnell IRVIN and have also seen John Hannell IRVIN so the spelling of the middle name differs from transcription to transcription, as does the surname IRVIN/E.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Monday 28 August 17 22:24 BST (UK)

Tim

Are you in contact with your relative who put your tree together?  Is it possible he may be correct and I am barking up the wrong tree?  I have heard there are trees on ancestry which have Barbara and Thomas as step brother and step sister to other siblings, and I'm always careful about what I see on ancestry trees, there are so many indiscrepencies.  Some have Jane as Jane POSS.  Until I can see source documents, I tend to make notes to check for sources, rather than discarding the information right off.

I accepted the marriage in 1801 as that of Barbara's parents mostly because all other help that researcher had given me was found to be accurate, when I checked his information.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: SelDen on Tuesday 29 August 17 01:39 BST (UK)

One on-line site mentioning the July 1801 event says it was Banns only - that is, the Banns were called but no marriage took place in St Hilda's, South Shields. This could mean that the couple married in another parish (Banns were meant to be called in both the bride's and the groom's parish).

I see www.familysearch.org also has a November 1801 date for this event - an error or did they marry later that year?

It is also possible that John & Jane did not actually marry although they did have the Banns called. I have found Banns (but no marriage) for a South Shields man & woman who both married different people within a year or two. I have also seen notes in the register of Banns for St Hilda's in which someone has noted that a bride & groom did not marry but were living together.

Assuming that the John & Jane who had the Banns called in 1801 were the parents of Barbara Steel Irvin, have you looked for non-conformist baptisms between 1801 & Barbara's baptism? Not uncommon for families to start off in one denomination and then lapse into the C of E after a while. Especially if only one of the parents was non-conformist to start with.

A C of E marriage at this date was the only option in England (except for limited exceptions e.g. for Quakers and Jews) so does not exclude the possibility of the family baptising their children in non-con churches.

I assume you are checking out the variants of Irwin/Urwin also? While the family may have had a spelling preference it does not mean that others complied with that preference.

Good luck.

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: SelDen on Tuesday 29 August 17 02:24 BST (UK)

Hello again

Just taking a step backwards, do you have the marriage of Barbara Steel Irvin & Ralph Brady Simpson?

I had a look on www.freebmd.org.uk but could not see it there. Did it take place before civil registration started in July 1837? That would be a pity as church entries prior to this time do not give the fathers' names, however the names of the witnesses could be helpful.

Added: GENUKI says Ralph Simpson married Barbara Irving 27 March 1836 in Earsdon - hopefully you will be able to find the image in the Bishop's Transcripts on www.familysearch.org.uk if you do not already have this. Note yet another variant (I should have thought of that one given the fame of Henry Irving).

I see Barbara & Ralph have a 2 year old son William in the 1841 census (did he die? as there is a baptism for a later William) which suggests a marriage of around 1838/9 but it could of course have been earlier.

Also, I see Barbara Steel Simpson died in New Zealand in 1891 aged 76. Do you have the death certificate (or rather, the historical print out as this has more information), which according to the Department of Internal Affair's website should have the following information (as well as a great deal else which makes me somewhat green with envy):

After 1875 - Registration of Births and Deaths Act 1875 (dated 12 October 1875)

Name and Surname of father
Name and if known maiden surname of mother
Rank or profession or occupation of father

Where born
How long in New Zealand

Where married
At what age married

https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 29 August 17 07:22 BST (UK)

Hi

Thanks for your thoughts on this particular mystery.  Any ideas are appreciated.

I have got back into researching this family recently when one of the family researchers decided to put together a book on the family who emigrated to New Zealand.  We believe it is also a great idea to know from whence they came.  I was searching in the Bishops Transcripts online for a marriage of John and Jane and have found nothing for 1801.  I was originally looking for South Shields and St Hilda's, however 'South Shields - St Hilda' indices begin in 1866 whereas I found the images under 'South Shields' have 'In the Chapelry of St Hilda South Shields' at the top of the pages so am searching in there at the moment.  Familysearch have the marriage occurring on 12 July 1801 with another on 21 November 1801, so I am hoping to find these pages.  I had thought maybe the earlier one could be Banns and the latter the Marriage.  Time will tell.  Marriages may be in another place in the file.  I have gone through burials and baptisms for 1800, 1801 and now 1802.  I'll get back to the search after dinner.

Thanks again
Jeni

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: SelDen on Tuesday 29 August 17 08:09 BST (UK)

Hi Jeni

Just did a brain dump in earlier posts - you have probably gone down those paths already. However, I would get the NZ historical print out for Barbara's death if you or your fellow researchers do not already have it, though, as it may give her mother's maiden name, if the family knew it.

www.durhamrecordsonline.com (a pay site but modest fees) has a transcript of the 1836 marriage of Barbara Irving & Ralph Simpson, in case you do not already have it.

I noticed the John (age 60) & Jane (age 59) Irvin in Ropery Bank, North Shields in the 1841 census with a 14 year old Jane. All born in county (Northumberland) & John was a waterman. Have you eliminated this couple?

I also see a John Irvin aged 55 death registered September quarter 1849, Tynemouth reg district, and the death of a John Irvin aged 70 was registered in the June quarter of 1850, also Tynemouth.
ADDED: I used a combination of info from www.freebmd.org.uk and www.gro.gov.uk to find these - you may find other entries of interest. I find the GRO search engine is very clunky so it is easier to identify likely entries using FreeBMD before going to the GRO to get the additional information of the ages.

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: SelDen on Tuesday 29 August 17 08:31 BST (UK)

A couple more entries that look as if they are relevant to the 1841 census family - just in case it is helpful, even if just for the purposes of elimination.

1851 Census HO107/2409 folio 499 p9
North Shields
Church Stairs
Jane Irvin Head Widow 70 Pauper born Northumberland North Shields

1861 Census RG9/3836 folio 57 p20
North Shields, Church Stairs
Jane Irvin Head Widow 80 Northumberland North Shields
[same household? not clear]
Eleanor Bell Head Married 53 mariner's wife Northumberland Billy? Mill
William J Bell son 16 Grocer's Shopman Northumberland North Shields

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 29 August 17 08:41 BST (UK)

Hi

I do have the image for the marriage of Ralph and Barbara.  I also have her birth image and that of a brother, Thomas in 1821.

Barbara and Ralph emigrated to New Zealand on board the Indiana arriving in Lyttelton, New Zealand in November 1858.  They brought with them children: John, b 1841; Ralph Brady jnr, b 1843; Jane, b. c 1848; Andrew, b. 1847; Barbara Ann, b. 1853 and Richard, b. 1855.  They left behind one son, William Hodgson SIMPSON, b. 1839 who we have up to the 1851 England Census and no further information on this young man.  I have the image for William's baptism from the BT.

I have yet to find a marriage image for Ralph and Barbara.  I have searched before for that and whether I couldn't find it, or something else happened, I don't remember now.

Yes, we are very lucky with our printouts here.  Having a copy of the register instead of a transcription is great.  If I had a copy I can no longer find it and have ordered another.  I moved house a few years ago, into a smaller space and much of my genealogy files are packed away still.  The only problem we have with death information is when the informant doesn't always know the correct details, which is a problem everywhere.

I have also found the printouts for births shortly after emigration are sometimes incorrect because the person writing the details couldn't always understand the accent, so we have villages in the UK in the wrong county and have to work out was the village correct, or the county :-)

Your latest message, yes I have noted these people from the 1841 census and will need to see whether or not they are my couple. 

I have checked again and have done a transcription of the image of Ralph and Barbara's marriage, and it is Banns
'Ralph Simpson of this parish and Barbara Irving of this parish were married in this church by Banns with consent of [no name here] this twenty seventh day of March in the year one thousand eight hundred and thirty six by me Henry Warkman, Minis. of Earsdon
This marriage was solemnized between us Ralph Brady Simpson, Barbara Irving
In the presence of Thomas M. Pack, Clement Kell'

Oh and thank you for the census notes on Jan IRVIN, I will check those out more, I did have the one with the the BELL mother and son, could be same household although not sure.

Thanks for your help.
Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 29 August 17 08:42 BST (UK)

Correction, Jane IRVIN, not Jan.

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: SelDen on Tuesday 29 August 17 09:00 BST (UK)

I forgot to mention www.freereg.org.uk - another free site. For example, it has an Earsdon marriage in 1837 of a John H Irvin to Sarah Drummond, groom's father John H Irvin, occupation Master Mariner.

There may be other entries which help narrow your trawl through the BTs.

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 29 August 17 09:20 BST (UK)

The burial for  the John Irvin who died in 1850 age 70 would appear to be on Durham Records Online. Abode given as Duk Street.

The parish records for South Shields St Hilda would appear to have been digitised (search Family Search Records for South Shields and click on church records - the camera icons show what has been digitised). They can only be viewed, however, in a Familysearch centre.

William

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 29 August 17 12:15 BST (UK)

Thank you, William, I will check those out in the morning.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 29 August 17 12:30 BST (UK)

Meant to say that you need to search for South Shields in the Familysearch catalog to find the records I was referring to.

William

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Tim Irvin on Tuesday 29 August 17 21:05 BST (UK)

Hi Jeni,

I know the Irvin family were Presbyterians, and worshipped at St. Columba's church in North Shields. Maybe Jane Hill was from South Shields, and the Banns were called there before the wedding.

Tim

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 29 August 17 21:52 BST (UK)

Thanks, Tim. 

Just now I found a message from another descendant of Richard IRVIN, and her husband has created a tree, so I sent a message off to her, maybe her tree is the same as yours and if not, maybe she can tell me whether or not she has Barbara in her tree.  I'd like to get to the bottom of this mystery.

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: Tim Irvin on Tuesday 29 August 17 22:36 BST (UK)

Hi Jeni,

I hope you do. I wonder who this other relative may be. Perhaps we may know them?

Tim

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 05 September 17 21:56 BST (UK)

Further to my research on John Hannell IRVIN, I have received Barbara's death certificate and this shows her mother to be Jane HILL.  So we are now further down the track, and another direct descendant of Richard IRVIN from the fishing/whaling company of North Shields has Barbara on her tree, although nothing of what happened to Barbara after her baptism.

Name and Surname - Barbara Steel Simpson
Name and surname of father - John Irvin
Name and, if known, maiden surname of mother - Jane Irvin formerly Hill
Rank or Profession of father - Captain Royal Navy

Jeni

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: SelDen on Tuesday 05 September 17 22:04 BST (UK)

You may wish to check the National Archives, as they have some naval records online:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/?research-category=online&sub-category%5B%5D=royal-navy-royal-marines

Title: Re: John Hannell IRVIN b. circa 1780
Post by: starsista on Tuesday 05 September 17 23:28 BST (UK)

Thank you.  I have had a quick look and so far no John IRVIN in the records I checked so far, although there was a John IRVIN will and that was 1800, so not the right John, may still be a connection anyway.  Will continue searching the Naval Records.

Jeni