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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: johneowens on Saturday 22 April 17 03:52 BST (UK)
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A Robert Thomas was living with Catherine Gwynne's family in Llanymynech in the 1841C. Both were about 20 and apparently not biologically related. Somewhere I found a married of these 2 7 July 1844 at Llanymynech. Can anyone find this marriage for me, please, at Llanymynech? I slipped up with my record keeping. I've been looking in Salop but the Welsh-English border apparently runs down the main street so it could be in Denbighshire or even Montgomeryshire.
Now, assuming this marriage date is correct, it seems strange that they did not produce children until 3 January 1851 when John Robert Thomas was born.
This later date would fit in with a later marriage in the 1stQ of 1850 @ Oswestry but it does stretch imagination that they were living in the same house in Llanymynech for 9 years before marrying and producing children, by which time both would be 30, which is a tad old for those days.
Can anyone please help me with this puzzle?
Many thanks
Best
John
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I'm not seeing an 1844 marriage on FreeBMD?
Only the 1850 marriage.
The 1841 census didn't mention any relationships? So there is no way of determining, from that census, whether they were related or not.
GenUKI has this to say about Llanymynech:
"LLANYMYNECH, a parish in the upper division of the hundred of Oswestry, county Salop with a part in the county of Montgomery, 6 miles S.W. of Oswestry, its post town, and 17 N.W, of Shrewsbury. It is situated on the borders of Denbighshire and Montgomeryshire, a small portion of the parish extending into those counties."
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Census is just a record of who is staying at a property on one night and it cannot be assumed that it was the permanent residence of them both :-\
Roberts occupation was Schoolmaster and it was likely he was only in lodgings he may have moved into another residence in Llanymynech during the following years
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Thanks, both, for these observations. The puzzle remains - as is often the case in this line on enquiry.
Best
John
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http://www.melocki.org.uk/salop/Llanymynech.html
Name William Thomas
Gender Male
Christening Date 17 Aug 1834
Christening Date (Original) 17 AUG 1834
Christening Place OSWESTRY,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Robert Thomas
Mother's Name Catherine
Name Elizabeth Thomas
Gender Female
Christening Date 29 Jul 1838
Christening Date (Original) 29 JUL 1838
Christening Place WHITTINGTON,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Robert Thomas
Mother's Name Catherine
Name Edward Thomas
Gender Male
Christening Date 11 Oct 1840
Christening Date (Original) 11 OCT 1840
Christening Place OSWESTRY,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Robert Thomas
Mother's Name Catherine
Name John Robert Thomas
Gender Male
Christening Date 03 Jan 1851
Christening Date (Original) 03 JAN 1851
Christening Place LLANYMYNECH,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Death Date 15 Jan 1852
Father's Name Robert Thomas
Mother's Name Catherine
Name Thomas Thomas
Gender Male
Christening Date 14 Dec 1852
Christening Date (Original) 14 DEC 1852
Christening Place LLANYMYNECH,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Death Date 17 Dec 1852
Father's Name Robert Thomas
Mother's Name Catherine
Name Mary Thomas
Gender Female
Christening Date 20 Nov 1853
Christening Date (Original) 20 NOV 1853
Christening Place LLANYMYNECH,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Robert Thomas
Mother's Name Catherine
Name Elizabeth Thomas
Gender Female
Christening Date 13 Jun 1856
Christening Date (Original) 13 JUN 1856
Christening Place LLANYMYNECH,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Robert Thomas
Mother's Name Catherine
1861 C Carreghofa Garth Llanfyllin
Robert Thomas Head M 41 Parish Clerk Oswestry, Shropshire
Catherine Thomas Wife F 41 Llanymynech, Shropshire
Mary Thomas Daughter F 7 Llanymynech, Montgomeryshire
Elizabeth Thomas Daughter F 5 Llanymynech, Montgomeryshire
Margaret E Thomas Daughter F 3 Llanymynech, Montgomeryshire
Margaret Owens Niece F 19 Sacombe, Cheshire
Eliza Griffiths Servant F 15 ..., Shropshire
https://familysearch.org
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https://familysearch.org
Name Catherine Gwynne
Gender Female
Christening Date 09 Apr 1820
Christening Date (Original) 09 APR 1820
Christening Place LLANYMYNECH,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name John Gwynne
Mother's Name Mary
1841 C Llanymynech Parish of Llanymynech Shropshire
Mary Gwynne F 60-64 Shropshire
George Gwynne M 20-24 Shropshire
Catherine Gwynne F 20-24 Shropshire
Mary Gwynne F 25-29 Shropshire
David Gwynne M 1 Shropshire
Robert Thomas M 20-24 Shropshire
Thomas Thomas M 8 Shropshire
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1807, July 17. John Gwynne, bac., s. of David Gwynne of Castle Caereinion, farmer, & Mary his w., aged 26, & Mary Price, sp., d. of Hugh Price, farmer, & Elizabeth his w., aged 27.
http://www.melocki.org.uk/salop/Llanymynech.html
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Thanks very much, Alberbury for these valuable records.
I'm away from my files at this time but will get back to you with any queries.
Many thanks and best wishes
John
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https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gwynne-83
John Gwynne
Born 17 Jan 1779 in Castle Caereinion, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Son of David Gwynne and Mary Sambrook
Brother of David Gwynne, Evan Gwynne, Robert Gwynne, Mary Gwynne, Elizabeth Gwynne, Anne Gwynne and Margaret Gwynne
[spouse(s) unknown]
[children unknown]
Died 23 Dec 1835 in Llanymynech, Shropshire, , England
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Thanks again, Alberbury.
Yes, you have found the link with my Owens family in the 1861 at Carreghofa, Garth, Llanfyllin: Margaret Owens (niece 16), who was my great grandfather's sister. Unfortunately, I cannot read Robert Thomas' occupation on the image and Ancestry does not provide a transcription. Is it "Parish Clerk & ???????"? In the 1841, he was a schoolmaster. Neither can I read Catherine's occupation? Can you help please? (RG9/4261/41/p. 10).
Now found that Robert Thomas (b c1819) and Catherine Gwynne married Q1/1850 @ Oswestry, which would mean that the first 3 children (William 1834; Elizabeth 1838; and Edward 1840) are those of another Robert Thomas & Catherine (possibly Catherine Lewis) who married in 1833. Robert would only be 14 in 1833.
However, I now cannot find the family in the 1851C.
Many thanks for the new information on the Gwynnes.
Best wishes
John