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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: Janice Jones on Sunday 23 April 17 13:26 BST (UK)
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I have found Census for both 1901 and 1911 for Patrick and Jane Collins and family in Ballynakill, Galway. There only seem to be 10 homes in this Townland. There are similarities, in that the wife's name is the same and 4 children's names of the correct age are on both.
There are differences though as well.
In 1901 Patrick can read and write and signed the form (the signature handwriting style is similar to the Enumerators), he is 30 and Jane is from Co. Galway and is 28
In 1911 Patrick can only read and make his mark which is witnessed (by a different Enumerator to 1901) he is 46 and Jane is from Co Meath and is 40
I have my Patrick as being born on 25 April 1861 (in Derrybrien, Galway, Ireland) so maybe neither is right?
Any thoughts?
Many thanks
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For reference-
In 1901 the Collins family are in Ballygowan townland-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Ballynagar/Ballygowan/1388183
Still in Ballygowan in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Ballynagar/Ballygowan/465169
Ballygowan townland in Ballynakill civil parish-
https://www.townlands.ie/galway/leitrim/ballynakill/ballynagar/ballygowan/
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This is a birth for James with a mother, Jane Mulligan.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01971/1760034.pdf
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What was your Patrick's father's name?
There is a marriage here, Patrick Collins Of Derrybrien.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10465/5811087.pdf
And census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Derrylaur/Derrybrien_West/1388476/
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You're right aghadowey, thanks. I see I should have named Ballygowan as the Townland and Ballynakill as the parish.
Thanks for the link heywood.
I have the names and birthdates of the 13 children:
John 2/6/1893
Michael (after Patrick's father) 7/8/1894
Martin (my Grandfather) 14/11/1895
Patrick 24/6/1897
Mary Jane 5/12/1898
James 24/10/1895 (or 21/10 hard to read)
Thomas 6/8/1903
Daniel 20/10/1905
William 1/11/1907
Catherine 8/4/1910
Lawrence 14/5/1912
Cornelius 1913
Bridget 1/02/1915
I have Patrick's parents as Michael Collins (Derrybrien, Galway) and Norry Halloran b.1835
I have his wife as Jane Mulligan and her parents Patrick and Jane (Enniss I think)
The possible Census forms I mentioned and you linked to heywood are the only other possible info I've been able to turn up.
Thanks
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I'm confused now as I have posted for a different Patrick based on the Derrybrien information.
I'll have another look.
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Here is Michael Collins, Derrybrien.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Derrylaur/Derrybrien_East/1388413/
Is that right?
Do you have the marriage to Jane Mulligan?
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Thanks.
I have that Norry Halloran was born in 1835, the daughter of Johanna and Michael, and was baptized on 19 January 1835. The age of 70 in 1901 is near enough? I think I have Michael and Norry having 3 children - Patrick 1861, Margaret 1866 and Pat 1867. I'm not sure if Patrick didn't survive or maybe Pat is a pet name?
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Here is a Michael Collins with a father Michael so perhaps another child.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10529/5835238.pdf
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http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632907#page/58/mode/1up
James to Michael and Honor (Holleran) baptised July 5th 1863
Margaret February 1866
Patrick April 1867
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Thank you, although I can't decipher much of it!
I'd just got the month and year for Margaret and Patrick.
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I found Jane Mulligan with those parents but can't see a marriage :-\ do you have it?
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No I can't find it :(
but I have a copy of Martin's birth cert showing her maiden name as Mulligan
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jzc/
These Collins births show mother as Mulligan.
Presumably then, you don't know for sure that Jane Mulligan with mother Ennis is definitely your Jane?
It is a puzzle. There is a marriage in indexes for Trim, Meath for Daniel Whelan and Jane Mulligan but the record is not online :( That would be the right area for that birth, I think, and it would help to make sure re the right Jane.
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I only have a copy of birth certificate for Jane Mulligan, formerly Ennis, that another family member had ordered and I'd assumed they had family knowledge
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The Whelan/Mulligan marriage is 1899 but I can't see them in 1901 census to check.
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:(
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Here they are in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000093174/ (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000093174/)
In 1901 Jane is shown as born Co.Dublin. The age is about right :-\
No just checked - she is too young.
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tantalising isn't it!
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Hi Janice.
I have just stumbled on your investigations with regard to Patrick Collins and Jane Mulligan which I find most interesting, as I have being doing similar work myself. Martin Collins and my grandfather Michael were brothers and grew up in Abbey, Loughrea, Co. Galway. Their father Patrick was born in Derrybrien and I'm informed that he worked for a local landlord (Lewis Estate) where he met Jane Mulligan who was also working there. Patrick had another brother Michael, who left Derrybrien and settled in the Mullagh area of Co. Galway (Drimatubber). He was married to a Mary OBrien. Alot of their family emigrated except for their daughter Kate who remained in the area. I, like yourself have been so far, unable to locate the marriage certificate of Patrick and Jane but I believe they were married in 1893 approx and settled in Ballygowan before eventually moving to Abbeyville nearby.
Jane from my findings was a trained nurse from Co. Meath and came to work on the Lewis Estate when she was still quite young. Jane born to Mulligan/Enniss is the only Jane Mulligan born in Co. Meath in this time frame so it looks very like this Jane was our great grand-mother.
Good luck with the investigations!
Helen.
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Hi Janice
I was delighted to get all your additional information on the Collins side of the family. It is really very interesting!
I think there is a strong possibility that the Patrick Collins born in 1861 may not have survived, as you stated and the Pat born in 1867 may be our great grandfather? It was common in those times in Ireland to give the same name to a younger sibling after the death of an older child.
With regard to the inaccurate 'age information' given in the 1901 and 1911 census - it was quite common that years were added on to a person's true age to enhance their chances of acquiring the old age pension before they were legally entitled to receive it. This is what we are lead to believe by those who have analysed this era and it's people.
Back in May of 2006, Tom Collins (Jane's son) who was aged 102 at the time made the journey home to Abbey from America for the last time. He was in exceptionally good health for his age and was guest of honour at a special Mass in Abbey church and a parish reception in the local community centre afterwards. While he was at home in Ireland he did an interview with our local newspaper and stated the following:
"Thomas Joseph was born to Patrick and Jane Collins on August 6th 1903. They met while both worked for the local landlords - the Lewis'. His mother was a trained nurse, while his father worked on the large estate. They married in the late 1800s and were given ground(Land) and a house by their employers, prior to the Land Act coming into force in 1903. They had 10 boys and three girls".
Tom went on to give a lengthy interview afterwards about his own life away from Ireland and settling down in America with his wife Margaret. Sadly Tom passed away at the age of 105 and is buried in the states.
Any developments on that missing marriage Cert ...... keep in touch!!!!
H (Ireland)
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Hello Helen,
I have had a message through Ancestry from another Collins, who is a Grandson of William and Teresa Collins (another of Patrick and Jane's sons) Gary is in America and tracing the tree from that side.
He has quite a bit of information on his tree but seems to be maybe what he's been told as there is not much evidence, so difficult for me to follow
Janice
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I have the names and birthdates of the 13 children:
John 2/6/1893
Michael (after Patrick's father) 7/8/1894
Martin (my Grandfather) 14/11/1895
Patrick 24/6/1897
Mary Jane 5/12/1898
James 24/10/1895 (or 21/10 hard to read)
Thomas 6/8/1903
Daniel 20/10/1905
William 1/11/1907
Catherine 8/4/1910
Lawrence 14/5/1912
Cornelius 1913
Bridget 1/02/1915
Martin and James born in different months in same year ? ???
Janice, your post of today includes the name of a living person which we're not supposed to do on RootsChat. You can modify the post to remove his name. There is a personal message option to exchange information which can't be posted on the public forum. Content of every post on RootsChat forum shows up on an internet search.
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Thank you Maidenstone I have modified the entry, I didn't realise it was not allowed - should have read the terms properly.
Re Martin and James Birth dates, James should actually read 1900, I must have been looking cross eyed at the information I was copying from!
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Janice, a member needs to make 3 posts before they can use the personal message system. This means that you and Helen won't be able to communicate by pm until Helen has made another post. You can email her in the meantime if you wish. See Personal message topic in the "Help" section.