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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: suds on Monday 24 April 17 11:47 BST (UK)
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Hello
I've tried searching, within rootschat, for The Clerks Croft, Bletchingly, without success. Apologies if there are already references that I have missed.
I have requested help here previously, regarding my Wallis family of Redhill and Reigate but not proceeded very far. My Gran was Alice Irene Wallis born 1887, Redhill. In 1901 she is living with her uncle in Deerings Road, Reigate and she married my Grandad, George Frederick Hill, at Holy Trinity Church, Reigate on 23 February 1909. He was a bachelor soldier (Grenadier) aged 26. She was a spinster aged 21.
Anyway, here goes. I was looking to fill in a few gaps and started to look for the birth of my Uncle George who was born at Clerks Croft, Bletchingley on 3 July 1909. In the GRO indexes there was a likely candidate but it gave the MMN as Parry. Who was that?
So I sent off for the birth certificate which arrived this morning.
Under mother's name it says 'Alice Irene Hill formerly Parry of Caterham'. That was a surprise, I took it to mean that she had previously been married to a Mr Parry but I can find no marriage. Then, looking up Clerks Croft in Google it looks like it was the workhouse.
Can anyone confirm that Clerks Croft, Bletchingley was a workhouse? If so, are the records available?
Anyone any ideas what might have been going on with the name Parry?
Regards
Suds
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Parry should be her birth name so where did the Wallis come from - do you have a birth record for Alice ** or have her in 1891 with Wallis parents?
Maybe her own mother was Parry.
** Birth for Alice Irene Wallis Sep 1887 Reigate has no mothers maiden name
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There's a baptism in 1895 for an Alice Irene Wallis mother Elizabeth Wallis school teacher.
If that was her perhaps her mother married someone called Parry - not sure :-\
In 1891 Alice is with grandparents William and Jemima.
Arthur Wallis Hill born Dec 1910 has mothers maiden name Wallis so no Parry on that one.
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Hasn't got to the bottom of the Parry name yet but William and Jemima do have a daughter called Elizabeth who is 16 in 1881.
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It was Godstone Union Workhouse http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Godstone/ After 1930 it became Clerk's Croft Mental Deficiency Institution.
Stan
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There's a baptism in 1895 for an Alice Irene Wallis mother Elizabeth Wallis school teacher.
If that was her perhaps her mother married someone called Parry - not sure :-\
Makes you wonder who the parents of this one were:
PARRY, HARRY CHARLES VICTOR mmn WALLIS
1891 D Quarter in REIGATE Volume 02A Page 166
Maureen
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Sorry, I had to go and have lunch.
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Hello
I have attached a copy of my Gran's birth certificate.
In passing, I can say, and have pursued it on other threads on rootschat, this is the last sighting I have of Elizabeth Wallis. The possibility that she married someone called Parry is an exciting prospect that I will follow.
On my Gran's wedding certificate she says her father is Hubert Wallis (deceased) which I think is a fib to cover up her illegitemacy.
I hadn't seen the baptism in 1895 before, that must surely be them although Gran must be eight at that point and there's no guarantee that her mother was present. On Gran's birth certificate you can see that her mother describes herself as assistant schoolmistress. I have been able to follow her progress in the school diaries. She eventually goes off sick just prior to Gran's birth.
regards
Suds
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Hello
The school diary attached
regards
Suds
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Hello
I'm still a bit flummoxed by this.
By the time Gran married Grandad she was already pregnant with Uncle George. Grandad was a private in the Grenadier Guards, I guess not much money. He certainly didn't come from a wealthy family. But why the workhouse? I wonder if it was a place that you could get medical care when none was available elsewhere? You'd have thought that the army might have helped in some way. And why the name Parry? Parry of Caterham. Presumably Grandad was stationed at Caterham, so maybe she'd lived the awhile but as far as I know she always lived in and around Reigate. Family history, which I know is extremely unreliable, tells me only about Reigate and nowhere else.
Many thanks for your help, please keep the ideas coming.
MaureeninNY
This s intriguing, I can't find any related baptism yet.
Regards
Suds
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Hello
I've been having a look around and come across this page:
https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/heritage-culture-and-recreation/archives-and-history/surrey-history-centre/surrey-history-centre-help-for-researchers/archives-and-history-research-guides/poor-law-records/godstone-poor-law-union-application-and-report-books
The lists here seem to list all the people who applied to enter the workhouse. Unfortunately there is no entry for my Grandma under the name Wallis, Hill or Parry.
Suspiciously there seem to be no people from Caterham who apply in 1906/7/8/9, so perhaps there is some data missing. Or, if you just went in to have a baby, perhaps they didn't record it as an application.
Regards
Suds
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Would you mind posting a copy of the info that says "formerly Parry"?
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Millipede
Please see attached.
Regards
Suds
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Thank you :)
No mention of Wallis at all is there :-\
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Millipede
No mention at all. Blimey what a web. Interesting though.
Regards
Suds
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It is puzzling. Don't seem to be any Parry/Wallis marriages. Bit stumped and don't know what happened to Elizabeth either. I wonder why she baptised her years later...
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Millipede
I had the odd thought that she might have changed her name by deed poll. Why she would do that, I have no inkling. It could result in what we see though.
Regards
Suds
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Been puzzling over it with a cuppa and what if Elizabeth didn't marry a Parry but told Alice that was the name of her father?
Naturally she couldn't put father Parry on her marriage certificate if she was Wallis as the names wouldn't match so she made up a Wallis father - just a theory!
I wish we could find what happened to Elizabeth.
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Millipede
I've tried to find out about Elizabeth.
About ten years ago I wrote to every Wallis in the Reigate phone book to see if they were related and knew anything. None of them were related.
Regards
Suds
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There's a Joseph Parry around on Surrey Electoral Registers 1887 and onwards
District of Bletchingley
Parish of Nutfield
Place of abode Nutfield - dwelling house - type school house
Which school was Elizabeth teaching at?
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In 1891 this Joseph Parry is 54 widowed and an elementary school master
bit of a coincidence with the name and the occupation do you think?
1881 same place age 44 widowed school master.
Born Whitford Flintshire
1871 with wife Emma 31 school mistress
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Millipede
Elizabeth was an assistant teacher at St Mark's Church of England School, Reigate. Not the same one but an interesting thought.
Well done for spotting it.
Intriguingly, looking on FindMyPast there is an E Wallis who went to Nutfield as a pupil in 1873. From Bletchingley though. As far as I can tell my Elizabeth always lived in Redhill.
The links are very tenuous, I don't know how you would make it stick.
Regards
Suds
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MaureeninNY
You spotted a birth registration (Harry Charles Victor Parry) early on in this thread. I sort of put it on the back burner because I couldn't see the link. However, a friend pointed out it's possibilities and, a bit grudgingly, I sent off for the birth certificate. It arrived yesterday morning (see attached).
So, I now believe it is relevant, but what it means, I haven't a clue.
I'll try and summarise what we know:
Elizabeth Wallis born 1865 Stockwell, Surrey
Alice Irene Wallis born 1887 Redhill, Surrey
Harry Charles Victor Parry born 1891 Redhill, Surrey (MMN Wallis), mother Elizabeth Parry formerly Wallis, father Henry Charles Parry.
Alice Irene Wallis (spinster) marries George Frederick Hill 1909 Reigate
George Frederick Hill (junior) born 1909 Godstone, Surrey (MMN Parry)
It could have gone like this:
Elizabeth has baby Alice Irene who is illegitimate, father unknown.
Elizabeth has baby Harry Charles Victor. Father Henry Charles Parry. Who knows if Elizabeth and Henry are married, I can find no record.
Elizabeth assumes the name Parry and so does daughter Alice, hence the name on George Frederick Hill (junior) birth certificate. However, Alice is still Wallis on the 1891 and 1901 censuses and marries George Frederick Hill (senior) as Alice Wallis.
I have not yet found a marriage between Elizabeth Wallis and Henry Charles Parry. I haven't been able to identify Henry Charles Parry in a census or any other document. I can find no further record of Harry Charles Victor Parry
Phew, who knew.
Regards
Suds
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::) ::)
Remind me never to do that again. :)
Sorry,Suds.
I've been looking for a few hours and have come up with nothing. It's Monday morning,though.....
Maureen
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The plot thickens doesn't it :o
As names were often switched round there is a Charles Henry Parry in Godalming Surrey in 1881 age 27 Schoolmaster
Married by 1891 teacher of languages born Canada.
Probably nothing to do with the case but switching the names round just might bring up a likely candidate :)
Also little Harry might have used the name Wallis?